RFK Jr reports 20% of Moderna Vaccine recipents suffer "grave injuries"

[Joes Place]

Then why do all the inserts say that no studies were done on pregnant women?

Huh? Package inserts are based on what the manufacturer's data shows.

There's nothing to stop any university or health institute from conducting a study; and unless the manufacturer petitions FDA to change the labeling, the labeling remains the same. You do not seem to understand how this works.

 

[Joes Place]

Sorry. Again, you said there were no studies and I've documented one. My guess is there are others.

Try again.

He's a complete idiot, who cannot understand the manufacturers are required by law to put labeling on their products with respect to THEIR data. They have no control over independent research performed using their products, and they are neither required to (or, in many cases, able to) modify their original labeling reflecting 3rd party data.

The ONLY time they are required to alter their labeling is if FDA requires a change based on a safety issue or inaccuracy that might result in not-already-identified risks.

 

[Nat Algren]

Vaccines RUIN lives and Bill Gates is putting a significant amount of his fortune behind them to PROFIT FROM the world at the expense of all.

FIFY

The $500 Billion a year market treating chronic diseases is a direct result of the immune systems destroyed. Since '88-9, consumers lost the right to sue the companies for damages, thus the lack of concern for safety. The US fedgov (you and I) picks up the tab.

 

[shank hawk]

The manufacturers were allowed to license/market these vaccines without a single safety study being done re: pregnancy, yet it is accepted policy to recommend both tdap AND influenza vaccinations with every pregnancy.

Sure, they can do pharmaceutical funded/influenced studies after the fact and come up with the results they want. But that MO has been standard policy for decades with these people. Sounds like fraud, smells like malpractice.............

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/vaccines-licensed-use-united-states

 

[Joes Place]

The $500 Billion a year market treating chronic diseases is a direct result of the immune systems destroyed.

Conjecture. W/o a shred of supporting evidence.

 

[Joes Place]

The manufacturers were allowed to license/market these vaccines without a single safety study being done

Once AGAIN: FALSE.

 

[Nat Algren]

Sounds like an industry we can all just take at their word.
Top Big Pharma Lawsuit Verdicts and Settlements
In a 24-year period, Big Pharma companies paid 373 settlements for marketing fraud. The settlements totaled $35.7 billion.

Public Citizen published this data in 2013. It called its report Pharmaceutical Industry Settlements: 1991 through 2015.

In 2012, GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) agreed to a $3 billion settlement. It was the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history.

The charges stemmed from certain prescription drugs, including Paxil, Wellbutrin and Avandia. GSK still ranks in the top ten for its pharmaceutical drug profits.

Johnson & Johnson is the world’s largest health care company. It paid $2.2 billion in 2013 for improperly marketing its drug Risperdal.

Big Pharma companies were also hit with million- and billion-dollar verdicts. These verdicts rarely impact the companies’ profits.

A jury ordered Takeda Pharmaceuticals and Eli Lilly to pay $9 billion in 2014. The award went to an Actos user who developed bladder cancer.

https://www.drugwatch.com/manufacturers/

 

[Joes Place]

Sounds like an industry we can all just take at their word.
Top Big Pharma Lawsuit Verdicts and Settlements
In a 24-year period, Big Pharma companies paid 373 settlements for marketing fraud.

Funny, how I really never ever see Big Pharma marketing blitzes for vaccines.

Erection pills? Yep. Baldness pills? Yep. Psoriasis? Yep. Arthritis? Yep. Toenail fungus? Yep.

Few, if any, for vaccines.

 

[Joes Place]

The charges stemmed from certain prescription drugs, including Paxil, Wellbutrin and Avandia. GSK still ranks in the top ten for its pharmaceutical drug profits.

Oddly, in a vaccine thread, NONE of these are remotely related to vaccines....

 

[shank hawk]

Once AGAIN: FALSE.

The fact that you had to edit my claim regarding non-existent studies shows what a fraud you are.

But I guess that shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone paying attention.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

1) Just look at Measles.
Nearly every American child contracted measles at some point before they turned 15 before a measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. About half a million new cases were reported to the CDC every year between 1942, the first year it was tracked, and 1962.

Most cases went unreported, and the CDC estimates up to 4 million people actually caught the measles every year. About 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized and 1,000 suffered encephalitis, or brain swelling.

This went to 0 in 2000 due to the vaccine. Other vaccines have similar results.

2) I have no idea if this is true or if it matters. I'll leave it to the experts.

3) If it continues to show higher mortality it should and will be stopped. However they are modifying it to include live vaccine which, counter-intuitively, has been shown to be safer. Still, looking at the broad spectrum of vaccines they have been wildly successful in developing countries. Unfortunately they are not perfect, but on the whole they save millions of lives each year.

Riley, I've got to hand it to you. You've recorded possibly one of the most monumental fails in the history of this debate. The first 2 are absolutely central to this debate. I'd suggest looking into this a bit further before attempting to take the lead on this topic.

1) I asked you to fill in the "C" side of the C / B equation for the vaccine schedule. You attempted fill in the "B" side with one vaccine, and then tell me that the other vaccines were similar. You thought my response was "funny". Sorry but that's just not gonna work.

2) It is true, and if you weren't such a rookie in this debate you'd have seen the evidence of it here. Even Joe is forced to concede this point. Yes it does matter, and even a middle schooler will tell you this is clearly NOT good science. To boot, studies exist that indicate the two different routes of entry end up being very different in terms of how the body handles the aluminum. It's outrageous, I know.

3) There were actually 2 studies from the same group that came out at the same time. They are the only completely vaccinated / completely unvaccinated retrospective studies that were ever done for this vaccine. Dr. Aaby concluded that the children who received the DTP vaccine were 10 times more likely to die w/in the first 6 months than those who didn't. Letters have been written to the heads of the program, and yet nothing's been done except pull Dr. Aaby's funding. What a great solution. Read about it more here, along with the bone-head UNICEF response.
https://www.icandecide.org/governme...tions-international-childrens-emergency-fund/

 

[Nat Algren]

Oddly, in a vaccine thread, NONE of these are remotely related to vaccines....

Not odd at all. It amplifies the level of fraudulent steps that will take to achieve their desired ends. How is it you can put the blinders on KNOWING their propensity to deceive the public?

 

[Nat Algren]

Funny, how I really never ever see Big Pharma marketing blitzes for vaccines.

Erection pills? Yep. Baldness pills? Yep. Psoriasis? Yep. Arthritis? Yep. Toenail fungus? Yep.

Few, if any, for vaccines.

Because 72 of them have been mandated on the new schedule?

 

[Joes Place]

Because 72 of them have been mandated on the new schedule?

So, no, you cannot identify any "advertising".

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Joes Place]

Not odd at all.

Very odd.
Very off-topic.

 

[Multi-Hawk]

Hard core left wingers actually defending Big Pharma. This is awesome.

 

[Joes Place]

The fact that you had to edit my claim regarding non-existent studies shows what a fraud you are.

I edited nothing.

You seem to be uninformed as to the laws regarding medicines and medical device labeling, and the manufacturer's responsibilities relating to those.

The labeling regarding pregnant women will not change UNLESS the company conducts a study and submits the data for re-labeling. Any 3rd party can evaluate safety and make recommendations to vaccine schedules, independent of any labeling, once those results are published and accepted.

Again, you seem to have trouble with how existing laws and facts work here.

 

[Nat Algren]

So, no, you cannot identify any "advertising".

Thanks for clarifying.

If it's mandated, there is no need to advertise. More profit. Not too difficult.

 

[Nat Algren]

Very odd.
Very off-topic.

That's one way to turn a dismissive eye from convicted felons.

 

[Joes Place]

If it's mandated, there is no need to advertise.

Vaccine profits are a pittance compared with "boner pills". You can look that up if you want. Please do post the numbers when you find them.

 

[royhobbs2]

Vaccine profits are a pittance compared with "boner pills". You can look that up if you want. Please do post the numbers when you find them.

Global vaccine market revenues 2014-2020
Published by Matej Mikulic, Aug 9, 2019
The global vaccine market is showing some escalating growth and it is expected that it will reach total revenues of nearly 60 billion U.S. dollars by 2020. That would be almost double the size the market had back in 2014. Driver of the growth is the increase of various infectious diseases like influenza, swine flu, hepatitis, tuberculosis, diphtheria, Ebola, and meningococcal and pneumococcal diseases. Leading manufacturers of vaccines are big pharma companies like GlaxoSmithKline, Merck & Co., and Pfizer.

 

[shank hawk]

Because 72 of them have been mandated on the new schedule?

Who needs advertising when you have like 200,000 physician/salespersons pushing your products for you?

 

[RileyHawk]

Riley, I've got to hand it to you. You've recorded possibly one of the most monumental fails in the history of this debate. The first 2 are absolutely central to this debate. I'd suggest looking into this a bit further before attempting to take the lead on this topic.

1) I asked you to fill in the "C" side of the C / B equation for the vaccine schedule. You attempted fill in the "B" side with one vaccine, and then tell me that the other vaccines were similar. You thought my response was "funny". Sorry but that's just not gonna work.

2) It is true, and if you weren't such a rookie in this debate you'd have seen the evidence of it here. Even Joe is forced to concede this point. Yes it does matter, and even a middle schooler will tell you this is clearly NOT good science. To boot, studies exist that indicate the two different routes of entry end up being very different in terms of how the body handles the aluminum. It's outrageous, I know.

3) There were actually 2 studies from the same group that came out at the same time. They are the only completely vaccinated / completely unvaccinated retrospective studies that were ever done for this vaccine. Dr. Aaby concluded that the children who received the DTP vaccine were 10 times more likely to die w/in the first 6 months than those who didn't. Letters have been written to the heads of the program, and yet nothing's been done except pull Dr. Aaby's funding. What a great solution. Read about it more here, along with the bone-head UNICEF response.
https://www.icandecide.org/governme...tions-international-childrens-emergency-fund/

JFC - you're an embarrassment. Costs are lives, benefits are lives saved. There have been far, far, far more lives saved with vaccines than cost. Measles is a prime example.

DTP has had problems in Africa, more with girls than boys. They don't know why and are evolving treatments by using live vaccines which seem to be safer. DTP vaccines have been very effective elsewhere and if they can figure out the issue here it will save many lives. Vaccines, drugs, treatments aren't perfect. I wish they were. Still, the overwhelming evidence is that vaccines save lives. Dr. Aaby agrees:

In 1979, Danish anthropologist Peter Aaby, in his mid-30s, was studying malnutrition in the small West African country of Guinea-Bissau when the outbreak hit—a measles epidemic of horrific proportions. At least 20 percent of children under 5 years old who got measles that year would die. He and his colleagues began vaccinating, hoping to save the remaining healthy children.

His team’s effort would lead to a remarkable discovery: The vaccinated children, about 1,500 of them, didn’t die—not from measles or any other condition. In a year, the kids’ mortality rate for all causes declined threefold compared to unvaccinated children. “This is strange,” he began to think. “Something incredible happened here.”

Decades of research and hundreds of studies later, Aaby and a growing community of scientists now hypothesize that some vaccines may help children fight more illnesses beyond the “target” infection. “Your immune system is so smart—it’s just like a brain,” explains Christine Stabell Benn, a professor of global health at the University of Southern Denmark, and Aaby’s partner both in life and in research. “It learns something from the event [of getting a vaccine] that it can use in other situations.” The pair have observed this knock-on effect in children in Guinea-Bissau who’ve gotten vaccines for tuberculosis (BCG), smallpox, and polio.

 

[shank hawk]

I edited nothing.

You seem to be uninformed as to the laws regarding medicines and medical device labeling, and the manufacturer's responsibilities relating to those.

The labeling regarding pregnant women will not change UNLESS the company conducts a study and submits the data for re-labeling. Any 3rd party can evaluate safety and make recommendations to vaccine schedules, independent of any labeling, once those results are published and accepted.

Again, you seem to have trouble with how existing laws and facts work here.

You edited the clarifying point of my statement. Lied about it. And STILL haven’t rescinded your ridiculous claim that no off-label use of vaccines is a common occurrence.

Fraud.

 

[shank hawk]

JFC - you're an embarrassment. Costs are lives, benefits are lives saved. There have been far, far, far more lives saved with vaccines than cost. Measles is a prime example.

DTP has had problems in Africa, more with girls than boys. They don't know why and are evolving treatments by using live vaccines which seem to be safer. DTP vaccines have been very effective elsewhere and if they can figure out the issue here it will save many lives. Vaccines, drugs, treatments aren't perfect. I wish they were. Still, the overwhelming evidence is that vaccines save lives. Dr. Aaby agrees:

In 1979, Danish anthropologist Peter Aaby, in his mid-30s, was studying malnutrition in the small West African country of Guinea-Bissau when the outbreak hit—a measles epidemic of horrific proportions. At least 20 percent of children under 5 years old who got measles that year would die. He and his colleagues began vaccinating, hoping to save the remaining healthy children.

His team’s effort would lead to a remarkable discovery: The vaccinated children, about 1,500 of them, didn’t die—not from measles or any other condition. In a year, the kids’ mortality rate for all causes declined threefold compared to unvaccinated children. “This is strange,” he began to think. “Something incredible happened here.”

Decades of research and hundreds of studies later, Aaby and a growing community of scientists now hypothesize that some vaccines may help children fight more illnesses beyond the “target” infection. “Your immune system is so smart—it’s just like a brain,” explains Christine Stabell Benn, a professor of global health at the University of Southern Denmark, and Aaby’s partner both in life and in research. “It learns something from the event [of getting a vaccine] that it can use in other situations.” The pair have observed this knock-on effect in children in Guinea-Bissau who’ve gotten vaccines for tuberculosis (BCG), smallpox, and polio.

So Africa has some DTP ‘problems’? I guess that’s one way to label dead and/or disfigured foreigners, especially if they’re dirt poor and dark skinned.

 

[Joes Place]

You edited the clarifying point of my statement. Lied about it. And STILL haven’t rescinded your ridiculous claim that no off-label use of vaccines is a common occurrence.

What off-label use? Drugs are often contraindicated for lots of things; when physicians and researchers learn ways around those, they become something called "Standard of Care". Which appears to be what you're arguing here. Regardless of "original labeling", Standard of Care is completely accepted, regardless of the garbage that RFK spits out.

 

[Joes Place]

Global vaccine market revenues 2014-2020
Published by Matej Mikulic, Aug 9, 2019
The global vaccine market is showing some escalating growth and it is expected that it will reach total revenues of nearly 60 billion U.S. dollars by 2020.

Now show us the "profits".

(Hint: most vaccines aren't very profitable; MUCH lower margins than Viagra et al.)

 

[Nat Algren]

Vaccine profits are a pittance compared with "boner pills". You can look that up if you want. Please do post the numbers when you find them.

For every $1 spent on a shot in the poorest 94 countries, a $44 return is collected. Hardly a pittance. Now, they are immune to liability, which makes it a license to print bank. Gardasil rakes in more than $1.7 Billion in profit. Here's where it gets better...since the new vax schedule in '89, there are now 420 diseases that are now epidemics and with that has come $500 Billion in treatment.

Not buying your detour to look up boner pills. The goalposts are cemented.

 

[shank hawk]

A reproductive and developmental toxicity study has been performed in female rats at a dose approximately 265 times the human dose (on a mg/kg basis) and revealed no evidence of impaired female fertility or harm to the fetus. There are, however, no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Because animal reproduction studies are not always predictive of human response, this vaccine should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

This vaccine is only indicated in cases of clear need, and admittedly there were NO studies done, yet it is recommended that EVERY pregnant woman receive this shot.

Fraud.

fda.gov

 

[Nat Algren]

Moreover, in the US, chronic diseases represent more than 70% of the deaths and 70% of health care costs.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

JFC - you're an embarrassment. Costs are lives, benefits are lives saved. There have been far, far, far more lives saved with vaccines than cost. Measles is a prime example.

Dude. You picked ONE vaccine from the entire schedule and estimated lives saved, hospital visits and encephalitis cases saved as a result of administration of the vaccine. That is a benefit, and belongs on the "B" side of the equation. In fact, every single word you typed in your answer belongs on the B side of the equation. That is not what was asked, so you get an F.

A COST (in 3rd grade terms) is a something bad that happens to someone as a result of having received the vaccine. Adverse reactions include everything from ticks to ADHD to asthma to food allergies to death. To fill in the C side of the equation, you have to estimate all negative health outcomes caused by the schedule. I'll help you get started. According to a study, 54% of all children in the US today have a chronic health condition. Up from 12% before the ramped up the schedule. How much of that should be attributed to the schedule?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Hard core left wingers actually defending Big Pharma. This is awesome.

They used to get really mean about it too. After they lost the vaccine safety debate they changed their tune and mellowed out quite a bit. Just ask Joe.

 

[Joes Place]

For every $1 spent on a shot in the poorest 94 countries, a $44 return is collected.

Is it?

Seems like when the data don't back your preconceived notions, you just run around making shit up.

 

[Joes Place]

Adverse reactions include everything from ticks to ADHD to asthma to food allergies

So, when you cannot argue with facts, you simply make shit up.
Where are confirming studies linking any of these to any specific vaccine?

The whole autism thing was debunked years ago.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

DTP has had problems in Africa, more with girls than boys. They don't know why and are evolving treatments by using live vaccines which seem to be safer. DTP vaccines have been very effective elsewhere and if they can figure out the issue here it will save many lives. Vaccines, drugs, treatments aren't perfect. I wish they were. Still, the overwhelming evidence is that vaccines save lives. Dr. Aaby agrees:

We stopped using it here because it sucked and we knew it (because we stopped using it) and replaced it with something BETTER. Somehow it's good enough for "them" though? Despite the science that shows that it's killing more people than it saves? That vaccine should be discontinued IMMEDIATELY. Instead, they remove funding for Dr. Aaby. Is there a defense for this mess?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

So, when you cannot argue with facts, you simply make shit up.
Where are confirming studies linking any of these to any specific vaccine?

The whole autism thing was debunked years ago.

No, I simply asked him to fill in the costs side of the c / b equation. Something you completely failed at. Why don't we just see if he can do it?

 

[Nat Algren]

Is it?

Seems like when the data don't back your preconceived notions, you just run around making shit up.

How do you like your crow? You could've just asked. Anyway, Google's your enemy:

Coronavirus highlights the $35 billion vaccine market. Here are the key players
PUBLISHED SUN, FEB 23 20208:46 AM ESTUPDATED MON, FEB 24 20204:04 PM EST

• The vaccine market has grown sixfold over the past two decades, worth more than $35 billion today, according to AB Bernstein.
• The firm said the industry has consolidated to four big players that account for about 85% of the market — British drugmaker GlaxoSmithKline, French pharmaceutical company Sanofi, and U.S.-based Merck and Pfizer.

The coronavirus outbreak is bringing attention to the fast-growing vaccine industry.

The vaccine market has grown sixfold over the past two decades, worth more than $35 billion today, according to AB Bernstein. The firm said the industry has consolidated to four big players that account for about 85% of the market — British drugmaker GlaxoSmithKline, French pharmaceutical company Sanofi, and U.S.-based Merck and Pfizer.


“For every dollar invested in vaccination in the world’s 94 lowest-income countries, the net return is $44. Hard to argue against,” Wimal Kapadia, Bernstein’s analyst, said in a note. “This oligopoly has been built through significant market consolidation driven primarily by the complexities of the manufacturing and supply chain.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-brings-light-to-the-35-billion-vaccine-market.html

Let me guess, Joe...CNBC is not a reputable source? Honestly, you're an uppity version of the guys I saw on 5 seasons of The Wire.

 

[Joes Place]

No, I simply asked him to fill in the costs side of the c / b equation.

We already KNOW the costs of no vaccines.
We KNOW what mortality rates for polio, measles, etc etc etc have been historically - and it's NOT simply mortality rates - people incur life-altering health problems from those diseases; permanent hearing loss, paralysis, etc. Those, alone, exceed the costs of vaccines and the very small #s of side effects from them.

And, once again - if someone's immune system is triggered by the pathogen designed to elicit antibodies, it's a pretty reasonable assumption they'd have worse reactions (and likely death) to the actual disease. We KNOW most of these diseases have mortality rates greater than vaccine adverse reactions. That's why we TEST them and want to ensure those reactions are on the order of a few in a million, not 1/100 or 1/1000 affected by the diseases we're vaccinating for.

My position on this has been clear from the get-go: if you want to skip vaccines, then you skip insurability, Medicaid, Medicare for any vaccinable-disease-related condition or side effect. You OWE people you infect for their losses. Own that, and you can do what you want.

 

[Joes Place]

“For every dollar invested in vaccination in the world’s 94 lowest-income countries, the net return is $44.

Seems like he's arguing the ROI on a $1 vaccine investment benefitting populations to the tune of $44. Nothing about pharma profits.

And YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT POINT, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDIOT

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2015.1086

An analysis of return on investment can help policy makers support, optimize, and advocate for the expansion of immunization programs in the world’s poorest countries. We assessed the return on investment associated with achieving projected coverage levels for vaccinations to prevent diseases related to ten antigens in ninety-four low- and middle-income countries during 2011–20, the Decade of Vaccines. We derived these estimates by using costs of vaccines, supply chains, and service delivery and their associated economic benefits. Based on the costs of illnesses averted, we estimated that projected immunizations will yield a net return about 16 times greater than costs over the decade (uncertainty range: 10–25). Using a full-income approach, which quantifies the value that people place on living longer and healthier lives, we found that net returns amounted to 44 times the costs (uncertainty range: 27–67). Across all antigens, net returns were greater than costs. But to realize the substantial positive return on investment from immunization programs, it is essential that governments and donors provide the requisite investments.

Good Lord. We're literally debating nincompoops here.

 

[Joes Place]

How do you like your crow?

You just fed yourself a nice dish of it, quoting what you THOUGHT were pharma profits, but are REALLY science policy ROI from vaccine investments in poor countries.

Holy Shit that is one of the stupidest things ever posted on this board!!!!