Rotation

[Auger]

I am really hoping Fran only goes 9 sometimes 10 deep this year. Williams, Jok, Baer, Uhl and Cook then Bohannon, Wagner, Pemsl, Kreiner. If Ellingson and Jones can't get it going or are too big of holes on D then reserve them to mop up duty.

These young guys can really grow this year but they need time and minutes on the court. Think Williams, Bohannon, Cook, Pemsl, Wagner and Kreiner all need to be getting 15 mins atleast a game. Jok and Baer atleast 30 and Uhl well we shall see. That said if Jones can get his knee healed and it doesn't slow him on D, or Ellingson ever looks like a B1G player then go 10 deep at times. I should also point out I consider anyone that avg's more than 5 mins or more a game as someone that is part of the rotation.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

I'll give you Jok for many reasons, but Baer needs to share those minutes with Ahmad Wagner from what I have heard and seen this year and Dale Jones deserves some time yet to see what he can contribute at the 3, but of course it depends on match ups at some point this season. This is also too early to lock in IMO to 9 or 10 deep as we have no idea as yet how a Moss or BE or Dailey can affect a game so give it time and enjoy what they all bring to the game. Will someone else need to play the one if Christian Williams back becomes habitual. I have no idea how bad he was hurting or whether or not it would have affected his play in the second half had he played and Fran didn't sound too concerned either at this point but let's let things play out during the non com and see where the team is by the time conference play begins

 

[Auger]

I would like to see Wagner take a combo of Uhl minutes and just some of Baer's. Wagner around 22-25 mpg.

I understand the let's wait and see on the rotation thing however a lot of these guys need the minutes in the non con so they can be ready by B1G play. If guys like Pemsl & Kreiner are only getting 10 - 15 mins during non con their development will be a little slower.

Also if this team gets used to a 10-12 man rotation for much of the non-con in marquee non con games and B1G games it will be harder for these guys to develop cohesion when they need to trim down to 8-9 guys playing 95% of the game. A 9 man rotation now would mean those 9 guys are used to playing together for 95% of a game. 10-12 is just way to many different lineup combinations and can lead to large lapses in rythm for an inexperienced team. I'm a firm believer that only very experienced teams can handle rapid change.

 

[Auger]

To large of a of a rotation also puts a lot more pressure on our young pg's to figure out the offense against quality teams.

 

[coralville67]

I think moss, jones and Brady's will be on the outs. I think Dailey will take some of their minutes eventually. He was pretty smooth this summer

 

[DanL53]

I was most excited to see Wagner at the three for a time. I believe he can keep developing his shot, that it might surprise how little time it takes, and he could one heck of a weapon along side Cook and any other big.

It also allows Baer to slip into that two spot (It's just another wing and yes, Baer can guard many guards) which may help with that eight, nine man rotation we'd all like to see.

I don't consider 5 mpg part of the rotation unless it isn't including mop up time minutes.

 

[Iowamavs14]

I liked seeing Wagner at the 3. Probably our best athlete. Nice to get him on the floor more minutes.

Kriener's ankle is going to limit his time for a couple more weeks. Pretty significant sprain. It has been reported by a couple of reliable sources that he and JoBo were taking minutes with the starters at practice. Kriener is our best catch and shoot option of our bigs. This will be important when we play better defensive teams to help spread the floor for Cook.

 

[CanadaHawk]

You can call it a 10-12 man rotation if you like. I think it's going to be a 9-man rotation with 4-5 guys competing for the 8-9 spots of that rotation during the season.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

No need to be locked into specific numbers this soon.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see Wagner have some potential at the 3. We'll have to see how he does defensively against quicker opposing 3s.

Jok needs to be on the floor as much as possible.
Cook will hopefully get savvier over the course of the year and learn how to stay out of foul trouble. He needs to be out there the majority of the time.
Baer, Williams, Wagner, Uhl, Bohannon will get their minutes.
It was only one game, but Pemsl looks to have skills that will get him out there as well.
I think they need Kreiner at the 5 with his size if he can rebound. Not sure if he can play well enough to merit the minutes.
Jones- could be valuable if he can shoot it, may not be healthy enough to go.
Ellingson, Moss, Dailey- this group will need to spell PJ on occasion. No specific candidate looks to fill the bill yet.

 

[Ronman]

I wouldn't be so quick to play Jok maximum minutes quite yet. I want him strong at the end of the conference season.

I would like to get longer looks at Moss and Dailey on Sunday.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

I wouldn't be so quick to play Jok maximum minutes quite yet. I want him strong at the end of the conference season.

I would like to get longer looks at Moss and Dailey on Sunday.

Really good point here about Jok, You want to play him enough to not only keep him sharp and playing aggressively and working continually on his posting up and from what I have seen better ball handling skills but also his steadying influence on a young team that already recognizes when they need a bucket he is the go to guy. Then again you want to make sure he isn't overused early in the season without sacrificing a game along the way they may need for a tourney berth. What a balancing act Fran and staff have this season.
Sunday's game seems like the best opportunity to get guys like Moss and Dailey quite a bit playing time to me too, [ I hope Fran is feeling the same ], besides getting me some more Cook, Pemsyl, Kriener and if ready Dale Jones to see what they can do. Still too small of a sample for Jones in games for me to have an opinion on what he can do for this team, though I liked what I saw from him last year and losing him I think really hurt as the season went on, but that was last year and this is a different team. I am feelingright now very good about knowing what you will get from Baer and getting very comfortable too about what Wagner will bring every game. Defense and effort from both these guys will be outstanding and both now I feel will have good games more often than not scoring wise. One thing I would really like to see Sunday is more getting the ball into the post and having it kicked back out for some open 3's. That's the one offensive area that will be huge come conference time, but to get that the bigs will need to prove they can score in the post so let's get some good feeds from our perimeter players. 14 more hours til tipoff !!

 

[championhawk]

Just watched the game and I am surprised how few mentions about the officiating with Cook. Cook got quite the hosing for pretty much the whole game.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

What is the word on Moss? I thought he had the physical tools to be a key contributor, but he seems to have fallen to almost being a likely transfer candidate, if things don't change over the next few games.

 

[CanadaHawk]

What is the word on Moss? I thought he had the physical tools to be a key contributor, but he seems to have fallen to almost being a likely transfer candidate, if things don't change over the next few games.

Moss does have the physical tools and offensive aggressive attitude. He seems in some ways like Jok was as a freshman. But Moss has more competition on this team. That said, we could be talking about him like we are about Jok in 3 years. On the other end of the spectrum, he could lose patience in the learning process and leave.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I think the reports of Brady's demise may have been a wee bit premature. Give the kid a chance to prove himself folks. I'm certainly pulling for him and he does a lot of small things that don't necessarily show up in the box score.

 

[CanadaHawk]

I think the reports of Brady's demise may have been a wee bit premature. Give the kid a chance to prove himself folks. I'm certainly pulling for him and he does a lot of small things that don't necessarily show up in the box score.

Savannah's style suits BE. If this isn't just one game he might keep his minutes.

 

[BBHawk]

I think the reports of Brady's demise may have been a wee bit premature. Give the kid a chance to prove himself folks. I'm certainly pulling for him and he does a lot of small things that don't necessarily show up in the box score.

I thought that Ellingson might not ever ger his mojo back but he has it in spades today. I hope he can maintain that confidence in bigger games.

 

[mazda1]

It's amazing that the coaches who work with the team everyday may know a few things about who deserves minutes that the average poster on this board doesn't. In Fran I trust, but I do wonder about Uhl LOL

 

[hawk-i bob]

What is the word on Moss? I thought he had the physical tools to be a key contributor, but he seems to have fallen to almost being a likely transfer candidate, if things don't change over the next few games.

someone who has coached in lower division college went to a practice and commented Moss in still learning where to be & when to be there...especially on defense.

Moss does have the physical tools and offensive aggressive attitude. He seems in some ways like Jok was as a freshman. But Moss has more competition on this team. That said, we could be talking about him like we are about Jok in 3 years. On the other end of the spectrum, he could lose patience in the learning process and leave.

with Jok being a senior & the fact Moss already used a redshirt...he would be a fool to lose patience & leave after this year....considering our 2 new recruits are bigs''''Moss will have every opportunity to earn PT in competition with Ellingson & Dailey.

 

[BBHawk]

Moss looked a lot more comfortable today on offense and defense. He should have had that dunk - he made the same mistake in HS, needs to take off a little later.

I was impressed again by Dailey. He made the most of his time on the floor. He might make mistakes but he seems to keep coming right back with a steal or a rebound. He was 2-3 from the 3 with 3 rebounds today in less than 10 minutes. He was very active. I am glad that he is not redshirting. Iowa will need both Moss and Dailey in the next few years.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Time to face it , there is work to do yet but this team has 13 legitimate Division 1 B1G players. For first time in the years Fran has been at Iowa I don't think I'll be seeing a drop off in talent when Fran goes to the bench. Today 76 points came off the bench. I still see lots of issues on defense and to some extent on offense too, but they're learning. I went to watch them play Regis, Kennesaw, and now Savannah and have seen progress both in team and individuals. Today's game couldn't have gone better for me. By that I mean I was able to see some things from nearly everybody( Jones, DNP) I hadn't seen. Team wise we have some post players that can post up , take it to the hoop ( and score) or pass out of it for some open 3's. I hadn't really seen or expected this, this early. The communication was the best I've seen tonight, Baer and jok and Wagner, CW and even " Steph" were reminding who covered who on the switch on D. Now it's still early and a work in progress but it's heading upward just as it should. Fran is able to take a player out (tonight it was Cook) and I believe Moss too, for a teaching moment and get them right back in. Cook had a great game against Regis so thought maybe this would be easy then had a rough night for the most part against Kennesaw, so my guess is he was pressing a bit early tonight. Moss was a lot less tentative tonight and played a bit like freshman Jok, but he has more hops, the missed dunk notwithstanding. Dailey got some pt tonight and was good too with some mistakes but is really quick and plays fast. Pemsyl has his head up all the time and has more skills than I expected this early. Kreiner too had some good and bad . He does play long as his reach and touch are well above average but the game is still a bit fast for him but he right now can rebound and shoot. Jordan has surprised me too. He certainly isn't fazed playing as much as he has already and he has a scoring guard mentality first but also has very good handles and doesn't often force anything. When he has he is already ahead if the curve about having a short memory and his head is back in the game for the next play. CW I want to look to score more but I'm very happy with his passing and finding an open shooter .
I understand wanting to get a shorter rotation for consistency but it's too early, way too early, especially since this team has so many skilled players and physical talent.
The competition starts to step up in class later this week and I'm happy about this. Are they ready for it, I'm not sure but it's time to find out, I think it's exactly what they need to learn and grow more, to get ready for the tournament to come in Florida and beyond. I want to see how this team reacts to some adversity, Seton Hall could provide that. I can hardly wait.

 

[RocknRollface]

What is the word on Moss? I thought he had the physical tools to be a key contributor, but he seems to have fallen to almost being a likely transfer candidate, if things don't change over the next few games.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[jpphawk]

Can't realistically rotate more than 10 against a team like Seton Hall. I think Starters remain the same and we go Bohannon, Pemsl, Wagner, Ellingson, and Jones if healthy, otherwise Kriener on a limited basis.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Can't realistically rotate more than 10 against a team like Seton Hall. I think Starters remain the same and we go Bohannon, Pemsl, Wagner, Ellingson, and Jones if healthy, otherwise Kriener on a limited basis.

This is likely the case. In terms of meaningful minutes, you can only really play 8-9 guys, especially if Jok is going to take 34-35 minutes against good competition. Against SHU, aside from the starters it seems fairly obvious we'll see Bohannon, Wagner, Ellingson and Pemsl. Kriener perhaps for a few minutes depending on foul trouble and how others are playing. If Jok is on the floor that much, don't see how Dailey and Moss get into the game. Which is okay, you can't realistically play 11 people.

 

[SSG T]

This is likely the case. In terms of meaningful minutes, you can only really play 8-9 guys, especially if Jok is going to take 34-35 minutes against good competition. Against SHU, aside from the starters it seems fairly obvious we'll see Bohannon, Wagner, Ellingson and Pemsl. Kriener perhaps for a few minutes depending on foul trouble and how others are playing. If Jok is on the floor that much, don't see how Dailey and Moss get into the game. Which is okay, you can't realistically play 11 people.

Not addressed at you, using this post as an example of someone else's words...

The highlighted is why I'm not necessarily a big proponent of RS or having a Connor or Patrick walk on. It's hard enough to get more than 10 or 11 guys PT, why convolute it even more by having 14 or 15 scholarship worthy players on the team?


Since Moss has been mentioned a few times in this thread, how did he look? I was driving back from South Dakota and couldn't watch. I found it interesting he went from 4 minutes in a blowout to 19? Did he get any minutes with any starters, or was it all scrub time in the two halves? He took 13 shots, were the quality and didn't drop, was he forcing things, taking bad shots, etc?

 

[SDHawkDoc]

This is likely the case. In terms of meaningful minutes, you can only really play 8-9 guys, especially if Jok is going to take 34-35 minutes against good competition. Against SHU, aside from the starters it seems fairly obvious we'll see Bohannon, Wagner, Ellingson and Pemsl. Kriener perhaps for a few minutes depending on foul trouble and how others are playing. If Jok is on the floor that much, don't see how Dailey and Moss get into the game. Which is okay, you can't realistically play 11 people.

This.
I made a comment previously about Jok being on the floor as much as possible. That is with the assumption that they are going to need him that much against most teams. Of course you want to rest him against the savannahs and kennesaws of college basketball. For SHU, and all the other competition not in the sub-100 of the NCAA, Jok will almost surely need to be on the floor in the mid 30s for minutes played. As long as he's not in foul trouble.

 

[Ronman]

I know the common knowledge is that you play the game at this level with 8-9 players, but I think McCaffery is going to find it tough to pare it down to that level when it appears he has so many players with the talent to deserve minutes.

Given that we all remember some seasons when it didn't even appear that the starters deserved to be playing at this level, it's a nice problem to have.

 

[JRHawk2003]

I would be shocked if more than 8-9 play come B1G time. Right now it seems to me a scramble as to who the 3-4 bench players are.

The Seton Hall game will tell us more I would think.

 

[CanadaHawk]

someone who has coached in lower division college went to a practice and commented Moss in still learning where to be & when to be there...especially on defense.



with Jok being a senior & the fact Moss already used a redshirt...he would be a fool to lose patience & leave after this year....considering our 2 new recruits are bigs''''Moss will have every opportunity to earn PT in competition with Ellingson & Dailey.

I agree that Moss and Dailey could have bright futures with the Hawks. But sometimes kids will be kids. Hope they have the families

I know the common knowledge is that you play the game at this level with 8-9 players, but I think McCaffery is going to find it tough to pare it down to that level when it appears he has so many players with the talent to deserve minutes.

Given that we all remember some seasons when it didn't even appear that the starters deserved to be playing at this level, it's a nice problem to have.

Yes, it's a nice problem to have 13 guys who can play as Fran says. I have to think Fran has learned from RDM's sr year and won't try to have a 10-11 man regular rotation. However, I think he'll try to respect the talent he has and allow them to compete and occasionally make the 8-9 man rotation he will establish. At this point, Kriener, Jones, Moss, and Dailey appear to be outside the 9. Maybe we'll play the season that way. But they might be played at 8-9 spots or even higher as the season goes on.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

If Ellingson has come around as a reliable shooter he's going to play not insignificant minutes. Moss still seems a little wild but certainly athletic. The hotter shooter or better match up might produce alternating minutes between those two kids.

This is a radically different Hawkeye team than we've seen heretofore. 2016-17 is going to be interesting and hopefully fun.

 

[tdburg111]

I wouldn't be so quick to play Jok maximum minutes quite yet. I want him strong at the end of the conference season.

I would like to get longer looks at Moss and Dailey on Sunday.

Me too, I really want to see Moss/Dailey get some minutes. Zohar don't think that Ellingson will have the athleticism to play against the quicker, longer athletes we'll see down the road.

 

[lovedwatchingLester]

Me too, I really want to see Moss/Dailey get some minutes. Zohar don't think that Ellingson will have the athleticism to play against the quicker, longer athletes we'll see down the road.

I do too and some will come at end of games, but there will be moments to shine at certain points this season with some significant minutes in games that may still not be locked up and that's where you'll see how they are under the bright lights. The minutes they got yesterday will be big in their development for this year and the future. Perfectly played out like you would want yesterday. BE is not just a 3 point specialist either. He cuts well to the basket and when he gets fed at the right time he scores. I saw that I think twice Sunday which helps I think get him going. Another thing about "Steph" ( his apparent new nickname), think Steph Curry, is this team has a much different personality than last year's team. This year a big part of the offense will be the post up, when someone drops down to double a Cook, Pemsyl, or Kriener, they likely won't leave Jok, but might drop off Brady . So not a run around screens to pop open for a second and shooting off one foot on a curl but think stepping into a 3 pointer instead. Last thing I noticed (and yelled often, lol ) was to maintain good spacing on offense and they were much better than Friday. Who knows maybe they heard me, ??? ok ok likely not. But the spacing was better.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

WTF are you talking about?

Just asking why Moss might be outside the regular rotation, when he probably has more physical tools than the other young perimeter players. This is a question, not a statement. Is Fran waiting for the light to turn on, or is he just not as good as some thought? If he only gets minimal playing time, you honestly think he will be here next year.

 

[RocknRollface]

Just asking why Moss might be outside the regular rotation, when he probably has more physical tools than the other young perimeter players. This is a question, not a statement. Is Fran waiting for the light to turn on, or is he just not as good as some thought? If he only gets minimal playing time, you honestly think he will be here next year.

Saying potential transfer was where, WTF, comes in.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I know the common knowledge is that you play the game at this level with 8-9 players, but I think McCaffery is going to find it tough to pare it down to that level when it appears he has so many players with the talent to deserve minutes.

Given that we all remember some seasons when it didn't even appear that the starters deserved to be playing at this level, it's a nice problem to have.

At this point, we don't really know for sure if we have 11 players who are ready to play against good competition. We've seen them play against Kenesaw State, Savannah State and Regis. Seton Hall will be another matter altogether. The game will be interesting, for a whole host of reasons. The things I'll be looking for is whether Pemsl's game translates against legitimate big players, if Williams can continue to look as in control as he is so far, and if the Hawks can turn up the consistency in defensive effort as the opponent improves.

 

[Auger]

I think in the Seton Hall game we will still see Fran go 10-11 players deep as a way to figure out his current best 8-9 for games like this. What will be interesting to me is who steps up against a very quality Seton Hall team and puts some distance between themselves and the guys they are battling for minutes with. I'm excited to see who out of Cook, Uhl, Pemsl, Wagner and Kreiner emerges against a pretty good Seton Hall frontcourt. Delgado is a beast and will represent the type of quality our guys will be facing in the B1G this year.

 

[seer_hawk]

Just asking why Moss might be outside the regular rotation, when he probably has more physical tools than the other young perimeter players. This is a question, not a statement. Is Fran waiting for the light to turn on, or is he just not as good as some thought? If he only gets minimal playing time, you honestly think he will be here next year.

I hope Fran has the program to the point where he doesn't have to play someone based on future potential. IMO Moss is outside the regular rotation right now, because he lacks understanding of his role. His physical tools (length and athleticism) are obvious, but he seems to be lacking in fundamentals. IMO he needs to learn good defensive positioning, and shot selection. Until he does I don't think he'll get much game time, except in blowout's.

I hope he does stick it out, until the light turns on, because he has potential to be really good.

 

[JRHawk2003]

I am curious about the sets. Will we see some spread the floor stuff? Its just a totally different team without Woody.

 

[srams21]

I think one of Ellingson/Moss/Dailey will be on the outside looking in for playing time. Very possible that number will be two.

If Brady can keep shooting at a consistent clip, I'd imagine he will get more playing time. He seems to understand his role a bit more than the other two. That could very well change and evolve as the team is very green.

 

[RocknRollface]

I hope Fran has the program to the point where he doesn't have to play someone based on future potential. IMO Moss is outside the regular rotation right now, because he lacks understanding of his role. His physical tools (length and athleticism) are obvious, but he seems to be lacking in fundamentals. IMO he needs to learn good defensive positioning, and shot selection. Until he does I don't think he'll get much game time, except in blowout's.

I hope he does stick it out, until the light turns on, because he has potential to be really good.

Depends entirely on how far away from reaching a certain level a potential a player is and what that level of potential could be.

Theres going to be a learning curve for freshman.