Russia announces retreat from Kherson, a mammoth setback in the face of a grinding Ukrainian counteroffensive

cigaretteman

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Russia’s defense minister said Wednesday that Russian troops were retreating east of the Dnieper River in what appeared to be a full withdrawal from the city of Kherson, the one regional capital Russia had captured since its February invasion. The move is a major setback for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who had declared the annexation of the Kherson region.

 
Nov 28, 2010
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Rather shocking . . . until you realize that the West has poured more into Ukraine in arms and military aid than the prewar annual Russian military budget.

While I was kidding a while back when I wondered why Ukraine wasn't in Moscow yet, it should not be surprising that Ukraine is doing well.

But can they keep it up? I guess that depends in significant part on whether the West keeps it up.

If nations like Germany and France don't go squishy, the next concern would be whether Ukraine has the manpower to sustain their strong efforts. No matter how much the West helps with arms and related support, Ukraine can't match Russia's manpower.

Sure, sure, there are already mercenaries and covert personnel helping Ukraine, but if the war grinds on, will that be enough?
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Rather shocking . . . until you realize that the West has poured more into Ukraine in arms and military aid than the prewar annual Russian military budget.

While I was kidding a while back when I wondered why Ukraine wasn't in Moscow yet, it should not be surprising that Ukraine is doing well.

But can they keep it up? I guess that depends in significant part on whether the West keeps it up.

If nations like Germany and France don't go squishy, the next concern would be whether Ukraine has the manpower to sustain their strong efforts. No matter how much the West helps with arms and related support, Ukraine can't match Russia's manpower.

Sure, sure, there are already mercenaries and covert personnel helping Ukraine, but if the war grinds on, will that be enough?

The biggest question is if we keep up with supplying them arms or if the Russia loving Republicans cut that off.
 

NorthernHawkeye

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Dec 23, 2007
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The biggest question is if we keep up with supplying them arms or if the Russia loving Republicans cut that off.

No one likes Russia.

The bigger question is whether the US can continue to fund coups started by Dems (Obama Admin and Nuland) and military invention (Biden).

It always amazes me how the left can be burning American flags during war protests one minute and cheering on bombs the next minute. It comes down to whether they are in charge.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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No one likes Russia.

The bigger question is whether the US can continue to fund coups started by Dems (Obama Admin and Nuland) and military invention (Biden).

It always amazes me how the left can be burning American flags during war protests one minute and cheering on bombs the next minute. It comes down to whether they are in charge.

I think the difference is the US military going in and doing it ourselves or simply providing weapons and/or money to already existing groups.

And I don't think we funded the Ukrainians overthrowing their pro-russian leader.
 

SolarHawk

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Jun 27, 2021
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No one likes Russia.

The bigger question is whether the US can continue to fund coups started by Dems (Obama Admin and Nuland) and military invention (Biden).

It always amazes me how the left can be burning American flags during war protests one minute and cheering on bombs the next minute. It comes down to whether they are in charge.
LOFL, the dems? Give it a rest bro.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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It always amazes me how the left can be burning American flags during war protests one minute and cheering on bombs the next minute.
Dems more so than the left.

This is a tough one for those of us who identify more as left or liberal than as Democrat. We remain opposed to war, opposed to the power of the Military-Industrial complex, and wanting to shrink military spending.

That said, it's still a fact that Russia is in the wrong for invading Ukraine, and that thousands are dying and millions becoming refugees because of Russia's military action. Sure, our propaganda and their propaganda muddy the waters. And, yes, this could have been avoided if the US were willing to avoid it. But that's history.

We live in a nation where 30 progressives who expressed timid support for diplomacy were torched by Republicans and Democrats alike.
 

bunsen82

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May 6, 2004
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We are getting close to the endgame. What is Russia defending. Soon enough the troops will say screw it, you will see and uprising and the war will be over. The question is whether Putin has the ability to use nukes or not. As Ukraine is reclaiming lands that Russia claims is ceded already, that doesn't appear to be true.
 
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Nov 28, 2010
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And I don't think we funded the Ukrainians overthrowing their pro-russian leader.
Of course we did.

It's not a question of whether our fingerprints were all over the 2014 events - they absolutely were - but whether you think that constituted good foreign policy. Most of the West thought it was, at that time.

The public wouldn't have been sure of our complicity without reveals from Wikileaks. Which partly explains our need to vilify and punish Assange. What's amazing is how those facts have largely disappeared from public consciousness.