Russia Banned From Next Olympics

[h-hawk]

Will Trump ban US participation in sympathy for his buddy Putin?

"MOSCOW, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Russia was banned from the Olympics and world championships in a range of sports for four years on Monday after the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) ruled to punish it for manipulating laboratory data, a WADA spokesman said.

WADA's executive committee took the decision after it concluded that Moscow had tampered with laboratory data by planting fake evidence and deleting files linked to positive doping tests that could have helped identify drug cheats."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/russia-banned-olympic-games-doping

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Should’ve barred the athletes from competing at all.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

The Olympics are a joke these days anyway. Adding ridiculous new “sports” while not having some traditional ones. Some countries not sending their top athletes in some sports. Hard pass.

 

[ThorneStockton]

The Olympics are a joke these days anyway. Adding ridiculous new “sports” while not having some traditional ones. Some countries not sending their top athletes in some sports. Hard pass.

Someone seems bitter about not being able to participate.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Fvcking Russians...

 

[Monzon]

I'll be curious how well the appeal goes. I'm also wondering if the 4 year ban begins now or is retroactive from the first ban (in other words, can Russia compete in 2022 given they were banned in 2020).

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Don't worry. Trump will adopt all their athletes as American. He'll also introduce the new US Olympic flag, complete with red, white, and blue, to compete under and to wave during the opening ceremony...

 

[naturalmwa]

That’s a little sad

 

[Rudolph]

The Olympics are a joke these days anyway. Adding ridiculous new “sports” while not having some traditional ones. Some countries not sending their top athletes in some sports. Hard pass.

 

[sober_teacher]

Should’ve barred the athletes from competing at all.

Yeah, it seems like kind of an empty ban when athletes from Russia will still be able to compete, they just can't do so under the Russian flag. Doesn't stop them from be celebrated back in Russia afterwards either so it's not really accomplishing anything.

Olympic Committee lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually ban an entire country - even tho everyone knows they are dirty top to bottom

 

[royhobbs2]

this is completely political and completely neocon driven, what a crock of $hit

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

this is completely political and completely neocon driven, what a crock of $hit

It’s all part of the neocons’ new bot identification program.

Congratulations . . . you passed.

 

[royhobbs2]

well you know Russia destroyed isis in Syria with thousands of bombing runs, Russia was invited into Syria-there legally and we are there illegally and have no legal right to be there.

The overthrow of assad with the isis proxy was completely derailed by Russia-so the neocons are mad, this is just one way they are showing it.

 

[cfbfan23]

Will very much miss seeing her:

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

well you know Russia destroyed isis in Syria with thousands of bombing runs, Russia was invited into Syria-there legally and we are there illegally and have no legal right to be there.

The overthrow of assad with the isis proxy was completely derailed by Russia-so the neocons are mad, this is just one way they are showing it.

So you don’t care that you have had a systematic doping program for years and that you have failed to work with the international community in these matters?

Why should Russian athletes get a competitive advantage over those of any other nation?
No, you all did this to yourselves.

It’s too bad the penalties are not stronger.

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

Yeah, it seems like kind of an empty ban when athletes from Russia will still be able to compete, they just can't do so under the Russian flag. Doesn't stop them from be celebrated back in Russia afterwards either so it's not really accomplishing anything.

Olympic Committee lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually ban an entire country - even tho everyone knows they are dirty top to bottom

Very good point, though it certainly becomes a gray area when you talk about punishing the "clean" athletes for the misdeeds of others. Who knows how many are clean?

It seems as though they might be out of the World Cup qualifiers as well.

 

[MitchLL]

Trump will issue another EO. It's all good.

 

[sober_teacher]

Very good point, though it certainly becomes a gray area when you talk about punishing the "clean" athletes for the misdeeds of others. Who knows how many are clean?

It seems as though they might be out of the World Cup qualifiers as well.

When we know the cheating is so systemic, any "clean" athletes are exceptions to the rule, and are complicit imo for staying silent - there's no way they could not have known. But if you let the go, they're still being recognized as Olympic athletes when they return home, so how are we punishing Russia overall anyway for this? It's not a true punishment imo unless you flat-out ban everyone.

 

[SSG T]

If you guys have the chance, give the Clean Sport Collective podcast a listen. It's available on Spotify, iTunes and the like. They do a two part chat with Frank Shorter and they get into the Russian state PED stuff from it's earliest days. A big part of the problem was from the time Samaranch took over as IOC head in 1980. When they started doing drug testing in the 1980s, he was using Russian (then Soviet) labs and Drs to do the testing. They just got a huge head start in figuring out how to mask. It's just continued since that time. WADA and USADA have both nailed them numerous times and the IOC keeps letting them off the hook.

The Russians should be given long term bans. Like a decade or more. And none of the athletes, once the ban is lifted, should be allowed to compete for Russia.

 

[BelemNole]

It’s all part of the neocons’ new bot identification program.

Congratulations . . . you passed.

Just waiting on Nat...

 

[SSG T]

When we know the cheating is so systemic, any "clean" athletes are exceptions to the rule, and are complicit imo for staying silent - there's no way they could not have known. But if you let the go, they're still being recognized as Olympic athletes when they return home, so how are we punishing Russia overall anyway for this? It's not a true punishment imo unless you flat-out ban everyone.

Look at the problems with Nike Oregon Project. Kara Goucher reported Salazar to USADA and the FBI in something like 2010 or 2011. It took 8 years to finally ban him. Want to get people like him out of the sport? Start holding the people funding everything accountable...like Nike. But when athletes do say something, the result is normally that they end up losing their sponsorships.

 

[SSG T]

If you guys have the chance, give the Clean Sport Collective podcast a listen. It's available on Spotify, iTunes and the like. They do a two part chat with Frank Shorter and they get into the Russian state PED stuff from it's earliest days. A big part of the problem was from the time Samaranch took over as IOC head in 1980. When they started doing drug testing in the 1980s, he was using Russian (then Soviet) labs and Drs to do the testing. They just got a huge head start in figuring out how to mask. It's just continued since that time. WADA and USADA have both nailed them numerous times and the IOC keeps letting them off the hook.

The Russians should be given long term bans. Like a decade or more. And none of the athletes, once the ban is lifted, should be allowed to compete for Russia.

Almost forgot, they also do an episode with Travis Tygart, who is the current head of USADA and was one of the people there at the start with Frank Shorter. Both of those episodes give a ton of backstory into how and why USADA was formed.

Basically, it came about largely because John McCain and Barry McCaffery (then Clinton's head of whatever the anti Drug agency was called, also retired Army General) wanted to hold the IOC's feet to the fire regarding things like Russia state sponsored doping program.

 

[noleclone2]

All jokes aside, it would not surprise me one bit to see Trump second guess and be dismissive of findings and try to meddle and get them back in....

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Yeah, it seems like kind of an empty ban when athletes from Russia will still be able to compete, they just can't do so under the Russian flag. Doesn't stop them from be celebrated back in Russia afterwards either so it's not really accomplishing anything.

Olympic Committee lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually ban an entire country - even tho everyone knows they are dirty top to bottom

What I read is that Russian athletes can still compete...provided they test drug free. I don't have a problem with that.

 

[SSG T]

Made it easy for you all, here a link to the episodes I mentioned above.

 

[sober_teacher]

What I read is that Russian athletes can still compete...provided they test drug free. I don't have a problem with that.

The problem is...they compete and then they come home and are celebrated for their accomplishments. Do you really think they're unaware of the cheaters? As a couple of others have described, cheating the drug tests is completely ingrained in the system, which is state-sponsored/operated, as opposed to the US which is at least nominally independent.

There's good reason to suggest that even of the ones who clear the drug tests, at least some of them are simply beating the tests...again. We went thru this before the last Olympics, and they're STILL cheating. Why should any of them get the benefit of the doubt at this point?

 

[unIowa]

Will very much miss seeing her:

She can do whatever she wants, GOD BLESS PUTIN, put her back in so we can see more of her on TV.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

well you know Russia destroyed isis in Syria with thousands of bombing runs, Russia was invited into Syria-there legally and we are there illegally and have no legal right to be there.

The overthrow of assad with the isis proxy was completely derailed by Russia-so the neocons are mad, this is just one way they are showing it.

I can tell who watches Russian $upported American right wing media.

 

[SSG T]

What I read is that Russian athletes can still compete...provided they test drug free. I don't have a problem with that.

But what happens if they test clean now, then their blood/urine is retested 5 years from now (once testing has caught up with cheating) and they are hot? That exact thing has happened with quite a few of them recently. That screws the people they compete against.

Lets say a US athlete finishes behind a Russian who gets a medal. Then that Russian tests hot 5-6 years from now (using their current blood/urine but updated tests), is banned and their medal is retroactively pulled and given to the US athlete. Hey, great, the US athlete can now say they won a medal at the Olympics. How do they get back all the money they would have gotten, between appearance fees and sponsorships, over those ensuing 5-6 years? Realistically, we're talking up to hundreds of thousands of $$$. In sports where even well paid athletes make upper 5 figures. Having an Olympic medal could literally double their sponsorship money. Even more than that if they were denied Gold.

 

[hawk halen]

I wish Alexander Belov would've been banned.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

The problem is...they compete and then they come home and are celebrated for their accomplishments. Do you really think they're unaware of the cheaters? As a couple of others have described, cheating the drug tests is completely ingrained in the system, which is state-sponsored/operated, as opposed to the US which is at least nominally independent.

There's good reason to suggest that even of the ones who clear the drug tests, at least some of them are simply beating the tests...again. We went thru this before the last Olympics, and they're STILL cheating. Why should any of them get the benefit of the doubt at this point?

Hmmm...even the USA has had plenty of cheaters over the years and I am sure some other athletes were as aware of that as any Russki may be about a fellow countryman doing the dope and none of them(non-cheaters with cheating teammates) have ever been banned that I can recall.

I don't think there is a perfect solution here, as I do acknowledge that some percentage of the "clean" athletes have probably just found a way to beat the current state of the testing. Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

But what happens if they test clean now, then their blood/urine is retested 5 years from now (once testing has caught up with cheating) and they are hot? That exact thing has happened with quite a few of them recently. That screws the people they compete against.

Lets say a US athlete finishes behind a Russian who gets a medal. Then that Russian tests hot 5-6 years from now (using their current blood/urine but updated tests), is banned and their medal is retroactively pulled and given to the US athlete. Hey, great, the US athlete can now say they won a medal at the Olympics. How do they get back all the money they would have gotten, between appearance fees and sponsorships, over those ensuing 5-6 years? Realistically, we're talking up to hundreds of thousands of $$$. In sports where even well paid athletes make upper 5 figures. Having an Olympic medal could literally double their sponsorship money. Even more than that if they were denied Gold.

There's always the potential for ANY athlete to be found positive after the fact and again, blood doping/PED use, etc is hardly unique to the Russians. They are probably the worst offenders as a group, but this problem is pretty widespread IMO.

Make the tests as good as possible at the time, obligate all competitors to take them, punish all infractions evenly and try to get better at testing in the future. Meanwhile, if someone has not been found to be a cheater, let them compete.

 

[sober_teacher]

Hmmm...even the USA has had plenty of cheaters over the years and I am sure some other athletes were as aware of that as any Russki may be about a fellow countryman doing the dope and none of them(non-cheaters with cheating teammates) have ever been banned that I can recall.

I don't think there is a perfect solution here, as I do acknowledge that some percentage of the "clean" athletes have probably just found a way to beat the current state of the testing. Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Of course every country has had their share of cheaters. The difference here is that this was run from the top-down in Russia. This isn't athletes acting on their own, this was state-operated.

I don't like presuming all are guilty, but at this point we truly are at the point where the innocent can be categorized as a small, small minority.

 

[SSG T]

Hmmm...even the USA has had plenty of cheaters over the years and I am sure some other athletes were as aware of that as any Russki may be about a fellow countryman doing the dope and none of them(non-cheaters with cheating teammates) have ever been banned that I can recall.

I don't think there is a perfect solution here, as I do acknowledge that some percentage of the "clean" athletes have probably just found a way to beat the current state of the testing. Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Yes, there have been plenty of cheaters from the US. And here recently, the only one proven to have been orchestrated from the top was just broken up and the leaders banned for four years...for essentially a first offense. The Russian situation has been going on for generations. We know it's a program, not individual athletes. We know it's sponsored by the state. We also know they've been caught more than once and we know their athletes have had one of the highest rates of violating the policy.

They need to shut down the whole thing in this case. Never let a Russian athlete compete for Russia again and don't let any athlete currently running for Russia compete, even for another country or team. We know, for a fact, that the entire system there is dirty. There are literally hundreds of Russian athletes on the "program". It's not isolated with a couple swimmers, skiers and track athletes. It's the entire program.

This isn't like one US team (NOP) who's leadership is proven dirty. This would be like if they found out the USOC was dirty and hundreds of the athletes were on the program.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

Yes, there have been plenty of cheaters from the US. And here recently, the only one proven to have been orchestrated from the top was just broken up and the leaders banned for four years...for essentially a first offense. The Russian situation has been going on for generations. We know it's a program, not individual athletes. We know it's sponsored by the state. We also know they've been caught more than once and we know their athletes have had one of the highest rates of violating the policy.

They need to shut down the whole thing in this case. Never let a Russian athlete compete for Russia again and don't let any athlete currently running for Russia compete, even for another country or team. We know, for a fact, that the entire system there is dirty. There are literally hundreds of Russian athletes on the "program". It's not isolated with a couple swimmers, skiers and track athletes. It's the entire program.

This isn't like one US team (NOP) who's leadership is proven dirty. This would be like if they found out the USOC was dirty and hundreds of the athletes were on the program.

It sounds like we have a difference of opinion, cool. I am for punishing only confirmed cheaters, regardless of country affiliation. You are in favor of punishing all athletes associated with a known cheating country.

This is all I really have to say about the subject. I still prefer to only ban the confirmed guilty...on an individual basis. Thanks.

 

[royhobbs2]

everyone cheats, dopes up their athletes, no country is clean, the us isn't clean either. Its all political bs

 

[SSG T]

It sounds like we have a difference of opinion, cool. I am for punishing only confirmed cheaters, regardless of country affiliation. You are in favor of punishing all athletes associated with a known cheating country.

This is all I really have to say about the subject. I still prefer to only ban the confirmed guilty...on an individual basis. Thanks.

How do you want to confirm? It has been confirmed that Galen Rupp (a Nike Oregon Project athlete) has been on program for at least 9 years. He has never failed a drug test. It was confirmed Lance Armstrong failed a drug test prior to his first Tour de France win, but the results were covered up. It was also confirmed he was on program during his entire TdF run, didn't fail any drug tests during that time.

It has been confirmed that hundred of current Russian athletes are on program, very few of those current athletes have failed a test.

I will flat out say, I would have no issue with NOP athletes that fell into a specified time frame running for Salazar be given lifetime bans, regardless of whether they failed a test or not. That includes many of the best US and European athletes currently, including quite a few Olympic medalists (this includes Mo Farrah, one of the best 5k/10k runners ever). Why? Because it was confirmed that NOP had a top down program that was nearly all inclusive and was backed by it's main sponsor, and implemented by the main coach and primary doctor.

With both the Russian state program and with NOP (I would also add the Kenyan state program, considering their ties to the Russian program), given how deep it goes, the question isn't "Who was dirty?" then question is "Was anyone clean?".

 

[Run&Blade]

I say let them all compete and if you don’t catch them during Olympics then forget about doing it down the road.

I would bet the farm everybody in the Peleton was cheating in the TDF when Lance was winning. In a perverted sort of way the playing field was level.

 

[SSG T]

I agree completely with this. Let them compete if they can prove they are clean.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Just waiting on Nat...

His lackey, roy hazen already commented.