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Rutgers says Suriano still undecided

shobart said:
What’s funny is NS effectively said he didn’t have any excuses for the loss No one here doubts the extraordinary talent of NS. The simple reality is that Spencer is better. I’m a Hawk alum and fan, but this isn’t about looking thru “Hawkeye goggles”, it’s a simple fact. If the show were on the other foot I wouldn’t have any problem admitting.

Suriano is a great athlete and seems like a great kid as well. I love watching him wrestle and for me, he’s an easy guy to root for if he’s not wrestling a Hawk.

Cheers
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You know what? Matt McDonough said the same thing. He would then go on to have surgery after the season. These guys are TRAINED to say "no excuses" and that is fine. The biggest thing wrestlers overplay mentally is "excuses" vs. "reasons".

A reason is a cause and effect explanation of occurrences, beliefs or intentions. An excuse, in this case, is an explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.

Reasons are objective and excuses, at least how they are perceived, are almost always subjective.

A great example: I couldn't get there because my car wouldn't start. By itself, it should be a legit reason. But, if you knew it was out of gas, it becomes an excuse.
 
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MSU158 said:
You know what? Matt McDonough said the same thing. He would then go on to have surgery after the season. These guys are TRAINED to say "no excuses" and that is fine. The biggest thing wrestlers overplay mentally is "excuses" vs. "reasons".

A reason is a cause and effect explanation of occurrences, beliefs or intentions. An excuse, in this case, is an explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.

Reasons are objective and excuses, at least how they are perceived, are almost always subjective.

A great example: I couldn't get there because my car wouldn't start. By itself, it should be a legit reason. But, if you knew it was out of gas, it becomes an excuse.
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Matt was wrestling with a “trashed” shoulder though. Not sure your example is a fair comparison.
 
Neo_Hawk said:
You make a good point about the Hospital stay, it obviously has some affect, to what extent, only he and his coaches probably know. I also agree that Lee needs these big gun in their to help his legacy, but I will say, and I heard FLO down play it recently, the 125 class last year was outstanding, two returning champs plus Suriano. That's a tough field. And didn't he pin a former national champ in the semi's? Not enough credit is given for that accomplishment, especially considering that most folks outside IC didn't give him a shot of beating either Nick or Nato. He was just a field guy.
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I agree with all of the sentiments toward NS. He's a great wrestler and can win on any given day against anybody, because his defense is solid. I was just citing that the reason it could be different isn't how much time both had to prepare during the season, because that favors Lee. I also agree with the post that didn't agree with Willie when he is minimizing Lee's weight at the NCAA. That weight had 4 former national finalists in it and two former national champs. A returning top four finisher didn't even place in that weight class and that's why Lee won the Hammer Award for the toughest weight. I enjoy Willie most of the time, but sometimes he comes across as clueless and his comment on that FRL was one of those moments.

"There were seven returning All Americans competing in the tournament at that weight and a pair of NCAA champs (Darian Cruz, Lehigh and Nathan Tomasello, Ohio State.) 125 lbs. was also the only weight with four wrestlers who had previously competed in an NCAA final."
 
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shobart said:
Matt was wrestling with a “trashed” shoulder though. Not sure your example is a fair comparison.
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And a hernia and something else.
Spoke to his Dad after he lost to NDSU kid in the round of 12.
His reply, “No Excuses.”
If NS stays healthy (hasn’t happened yet) he’s the favorite.
Can Gross, Micic, or Lizak tip him for back points? First, they have to take him down. I believe it took Spencer about 20-25 seconds to finish both takedowns. Second, he is explosive on the bottom
NS has the potential to meet all contenders in this bracket except Gross, Wilson and Bridges.
If The Cliff Kleen Tourney in Vegas has the same teams as last year, there will be 13-14 wrestlers in the bracket from last years NCAA 133 bracket. Including Micic(2),Pletcher(3), Mueller & Erneste RD of 12. Oh and Lizak too.
He’ll know by 2019. If he wants to stay at 133. If he does stay, he’ll see Micic, Lizak, Picchinni, and DeSanto in 2019 duals.
He can do this, or Wrestle Lee and try to win it all.
It’s all about choices.
My bet is on 133
 
Is it just me... Or does Suriano seem like one of the hardest wrestlers to get along with? From a programs perspective
 
Inthecircle said:
And a hernia and something else.
Spoke to his Dad after he lost to NDSU kid in the round of 12.
His reply, “No Excuses.”
If NS stays healthy (hasn’t happened yet) he’s the favorite.
Can Gross, Micic, or Lizak tip him for back points? First, they have to take him down. I believe it took Spencer about 20-25 seconds to finish both takedowns. Second, he is explosive on the bottom
NS has the potential to meet all contenders in this bracket except Gross, Wilson and Bridges.
If The Cliff Kleen Tourney in Vegas has the same teams as last year, there will be 13-14 wrestlers in the bracket from last years NCAA 133 bracket. Including Micic(2),Pletcher(3), Mueller & Erneste RD of 12. Oh and Lizak too.
He’ll know by 2019. If he wants to stay at 133. If he does stay, he’ll see Micic, Lizak, Picchinni, and DeSanto in 2019 duals.
He can do this, or Wrestle Lee and try to win it all.
It’s all about choices.
My bet is on 133
Click to expand...

No. Gross is the favorite right now. Period.
 
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If you wanna call it straight, stop being starry eyed over SL and piling on the pressure & expectations on him like this. The truth is NS came off a serious infection, hospitalized and down time for almost a month right before the Bigs and NCAAs

Now, to say that didnt matter is just nonsense. Total nonsense.

I recall when Bresser beat Spencer, all I read about was his knee brace. Talk about hypocrisy!!

I would love to see NS go 125 and get a rematch with SL, both 100%. Thats what its all about. Whoever wins, wins. But please stop with the month layoff being a nothing burger when out the other side of the mouths of so many, when Bresser beat SL, knee problems from the prior year (let alone a month ago) "mattered"
 
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JohnnyHandsome said:
If you wanna call it straight, stop being starry eyed over SL and piling on the pressure & expectations on him like this. The truth is NS came off a serious infection, hospitalized and down time for almost a month right before the Bigs and NCAAs

Now, to say that didnt matter is just nonsense. Total nonsense.

I recall when Bresser beat Spencer, all I read about was his knee brace. Talk about hypocrisy!!

I would love to see NS go 125 and get a rematch with SL, both 100%. Thats what its all about. Whoever wins, wins. But please stop with the month layoff being a nothing burger when out the other side of the mouths of so many, when Bresser beat SL, knee problems from the prior year (let alone a month ago) "mattered"
Click to expand...
Really can’t dispute most of what you had to say here. The layoff certainly didn’t help any and it certainly had to have had some sort of negative affect on performance.

That being said, I too hope Suriano goes 125. I want to see Spencer put the doubt to sleep and prove the layoff really didn’t matter all that much... That he would have beaten Suriano on his best day.

I don’t think Nick will ever beat Lee again. And to be honest, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Lee never loses to any American at his weight again..unless he’s sick, hurt or an old man and winding down his career. I’m throwing Fix in the field as well in case you’re wondering. I think Spencer Lee is that damn good.
 
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JohnnyHandsome said:
If you wanna call it straight, stop being starry eyed over SL and piling on the pressure & expectations on him like this. The truth is NS came off a serious infection, hospitalized and down time for almost a month right before the Bigs and NCAAs

Now, to say that didnt matter is just nonsense. Total nonsense.

I recall when Bresser beat Spencer, all I read about was his knee brace. Talk about hypocrisy!!

I would love to see NS go 125 and get a rematch with SL, both 100%. Thats what its all about. Whoever wins, wins. But please stop with the month layoff being a nothing burger when out the other side of the mouths of so many, when Bresser beat SL, knee problems from the prior year (let alone a month ago) "mattered"
Click to expand...

Hey...I remember you
JohnnyHandsome said:
Hilarious!!

So Spencer loses to Bresser, who loses to Suriano, therefore Spencer would major Suriano?

Lee looked great at UNI, claiming his knee was good as new, He went on to Midlands walloping Russell with a 2nd per TF, a quality wrestler. No knee problems there. But after Lee's loss to Bresser, "it seems pretty clear that he'll be stronger on that knee after more recovery time. " lol
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JohnnyHandsome said:
If Spencer had a legit injury, it didnt show during the match nor was it mentioned post match. Im not concerned what some fans think, I have 2 eyes to see for myself. If Lee is knowingly wrestling on a bum knee and risking more severe injury (esp his ACL) , then his coach is a moron to put him out there
Click to expand...

If Nick Suriano had a legit injury, it didn't show nor was it mentioned in the post match. Im not concerned what some fans think, I have 2 eyes to see for myself.
 
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JohnnyHandsome said:
If you wanna call it straight, stop being starry eyed over SL and piling on the pressure & expectations on him like this. The truth is NS came off a serious infection, hospitalized and down time for almost a month right before the Bigs and NCAAs

Now, to say that didnt matter is just nonsense. Total nonsense.

I recall when Bresser beat Spencer, all I read about was his knee brace. Talk about hypocrisy!!

I would love to see NS go 125 and get a rematch with SL, both 100%. Thats what its all about. Whoever wins, wins. But please stop with the month layoff being a nothing burger when out the other side of the mouths of so many, when Bresser beat SL, knee problems from the prior year (let alone a month ago) "mattered"
Click to expand...

A couple of things:

• Suriano has had a year in the PSU room and a year in the Rutgers room. He is now a junior. Lee has had a year in the Iowa room and is now a sophomore.
• Lee was up 5-0 going into the closing seconds of that match and was never in serious danger of giving up a takedown, reversal, or back points.

So, regarding the first bullet, which wrestler normally makes a bigger jump one season to the next -- a sophomore becoming a junior, or a freshman becoming a sophomore? Check-mark for Lee.

In a rematch, how is Suriano going to score points? Especially given the above? He's not scoring an offensive takedown, and he's not turning Lee. Lee hasn't shown any sign of struggling on bottom. Where would Suriano's points come from? Chicken-wings that go illegal? I give another check-mark to Lee.

Sure, Suriano wasn't at his peak, but the domination in that finals match was not a case of one guy peaking and another being really close if not for some gas-tank challenges and rust. It wasn't close, and now Lee is going to hit his stride.

I know Chief is high on Gross, but Suriano will go 133 if he wants to maximize his shot at a title. I happen to believe he can win there if he bulks up.

Suriano knows where he is going. The guy is super driven -- which eliminates the possibility that he'd entertain the notion of being a tweener. It would be dumb to go 133 and not make every effort be full-sized starting this past spring or summer (Gross isn't small for the weight by any means, and he is the bar). And it would be dumb to think Lee will be as beatable (or more beatable) as last season, and even dumber to think you can beat him when dealing with a tough cut . . . and 125 is a tough cut for Suriano.

Lastly, Suriano is not an "I'll just wait and see where I'm at, how I feel" kind of personality. He's all-in whichever weight he is thinking, and I strongly doubt he could live with himself for more than a day without having a plan.

I'll be smh if Suriano isn't at 133 and looking every bit the weight come November. My guess is that the ??? on disclosing his weight class --
and the NJ.com article about it -- is an intentional effort to drum up attention and publicity. He and Goodale are a match made in heaven in that respect.
 
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IAChief32 said:
Hey...I remember you




If Nick Suriano had a legit injury, it didn't show nor was it mentioned in the post match. Im not concerned what some fans think, I have 2 eyes to see for myself.
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
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Hope Fix and NS both wrestle Lee..just to show who is the best.
Both Gilman and Lee had no trouble with Suriano...Lee certainly has better workout partners and with Desanto it got better.

From what I've seen Fix and NS should both go 141 and get as far away from Lee as possible.
 
slushhead said:
A couple of things:

• Suriano has had a year in the PSU room and a year in the Rutgers room. He is now a junior. Lee has had a year in the Iowa room and is now a sophomore.
• Lee was up 5-0 going into the closing seconds of that match and was never in serious danger of giving up a takedown, reversal, or back points.

So, regarding the first bullet, which wrestler normally makes a bigger jump one season to the next -- a sophomore becoming a junior, or a freshman becoming a sophomore? Check-mark for Lee.

In a rematch, how is Suriano going to score points? Especially given the above? He's not scoring an offensive takedown, and he's not turning Lee. Lee hasn't shown any sign of struggling on bottom. Where would Suriano's points come from? Chicken-wings that go illegal? I give another check-mark to Lee.

Sure, Suriano wasn't at his peak, but the domination in that finals match was not a case of one guy peaking and another being really close if not for some gas-tank challenges and rust. It wasn't close, and now Lee is going to hit his stride.

I know Chief is high on Gross, but Suriano will go 133 if he wants to maximize his shot at a title. I happen to believe he can win there if he bulks up.

Suriano knows where he is going. The guy is super driven -- which eliminates the possibility that he'd entertain the notion of being a tweener. It would be dumb to go 133 and not make every effort be full-sized starting this past spring or summer (Gross isn't small for the weight by any means, and he is the bar). And it would be dumb to think Lee will be as beatable (or more beatable) as last season, and even dumber to think you can beat him when dealing with a tough cut . . . and 125 is a tough cut for Suriano.

Lastly, Suriano is not an "I'll just wait and see where I'm at, how I feel" kind of personality. He's all-in whichever weight he is thinking, and I strongly doubt he could live with himself for more than a day without having a plan.

I'll be smh if Suriano isn't at 133 and looking every bit the weight come November. My guess is that the ??? on disclosing his weight class --
and the NJ.com article about it -- is an intentional effort to drum up attention and publicity. He and Goodale are a match made in heaven in that respect.
Click to expand...
You forgot to mention that Spencer is actually the Omnidroid 9000 and each time he wrestles someone he gets smarter. So, unless he's Mr. Incredible bring on Suriano!

Mirage: I've got to warn you. It's a learning robot. Every minute you spend fighting it only increases its knowledge of how to beat you.
 
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JTSPSU said:
Really can’t dispute most of what you had to say here. The layoff certainly didn’t help any and it certainly had to have had some sort of negative affect on performance.

That being said, I too hope Suriano goes 125. I want to see Spencer put the doubt to sleep and prove the layoff really didn’t matter all that much... That he would have beaten Suriano on his best day.

I don’t think Nick will ever beat Lee again. And to be honest, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Lee never loses to any American at his weight again..unless he’s sick, hurt or an old man and winding down his career. I’m throwing Fix in the field as well in case you’re wondering. I think Spencer Lee is that damn good.
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I dont dispute SL is that good. I have no argument with your analysis. My only point is acknowledging NS was indeed handicapped. How anyone can dispute that is beyond me
 
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Vallholl said:
You forgot to mention that Spencer is actually the Omnidroid 9000 and each time he wrestles someone he gets smarter. So, unless he's Mr. Incredible bring on Suriano!

Mirage: I've got to warn you. It's a learning robot. Every minute you spend fighting it only increases its knowledge of how to beat you.
Click to expand...
Ive followed SL all through HS, as well as NS. They split 2 close matches in HS but if I had to award a moral winner to one of them, it would be SL

Also, you make a good point about learning. Just watch how the rematch with NT went.

No arguments.. but is it likely NS performs better, perhaps substantially better in the finals without the knee problem?
 
wasdt21 said:
johnypukeface i got spencer any amount name your price or stfu. you do not bring that crap here without puttin up the cash to back it up.
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Oh boy, Im all shook up.. please, please dont call me anymore names. I dont have the money to bet anyway. Besides, betting would ruin the fun of the sport for me. Enjoy your red meat
 
IAChief32 said:
Hey...I remember you




If Nick Suriano had a legit injury, it didn't show nor was it mentioned in the post match. Im not concerned what some fans think, I have 2 eyes to see for myself.
Click to expand...
Apples and oranges.
SL's knee was an injury from long ago. He was practicing & wrestling for months and months before the Bresser match. It makes sense not to put SL out there, in a meaningless match, if his knee wasnt safe. Thats why he wrestled

In Surianos case, he was laid up for almost an entire month PRIOR to stepping back on the mat. He WAS held out of all the matches leading up to the Bigs, because of his injury
 
JohnnyHandsome said:
Ive followed SL all through HS, as well as NS. They split 2 close matches in HS but if I had to award a moral winner to one of them, it would be SL

Also, you make a good point about learning. Just watch how the rematch with NT went.

No arguments.. but is it likely NS performs better, perhaps substantially better in the finals without the knee problem?
Click to expand...

SL outwrestled NS both matches. In the match Suriano won SL turned him but got a slow count and didn’t get his points. He also accumulated tons of riding time. With college rules and a college ref SL wins that match handily.
 
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fufighters said:
Hope Fix and NS both wrestle Lee..just to show who is the best.
Both Gilman and Lee had no trouble with Suriano...Lee certainly has better workout partners and with Desanto it got better.

From what I've seen Fix and NS should both go 141 and get as far away from Lee as possible.
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I hope they both do too. The hype will be huge and great for the sport

Regarding the Gilman/NS match - was a real yawner. Action so limited. One very strong criticism about NS is his aggressiveness seems to drop a couple notches too far in big matches. He sleep walked that one until the 3rd, when he had no choice but to pick it up. This mindset or strategy is disappointing and leaving PSU isnt going to help things
 
JohnnyHandsome said:
Apples and oranges.
SL's knee was an injury from long ago. He was practicing & wrestling for months and months before the Bresser match. It makes sense not to put SL out there, in a meaningless match, if his knee wasnt safe. Thats why he wrestled

In Surianos case, he was laid up for almost an entire month PRIOR to stepping back on the mat. He WAS held out of all the matches leading up to the Bigs, because of his injury
Click to expand...

LOL. Don't pull a muscle stretching to make there be a huge difference. Apples and oranges? More like red apples vs slightly darker red apples.
 
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In his first action 8 months after ACL reconstruction surgery, multi world champ Spencer Lee places 6th at the Midlands.
Matt McDonough after winning two NCAA titles in three final appearances, fails to AA.
Nick Suriano gets staph infection, misses a few matches, sweeps his way into the NCAA not giving up a single point on the way.

Who among these three appears to have been least impacted by an injury?
 
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JohnnyHandsome said:
Apples and oranges.
SL's knee was an injury from long ago. He was practicing & wrestling for months and months before the Bresser match. It makes sense not to put SL out there, in a meaningless match, if his knee wasnt safe. Thats why he wrestled
Click to expand...

Average ACL recovery time is 6-9 months. Lee had his surgery Mar/April 2017...started light drilling in August. Started controlled live goes in Oct/Nov. He did not wrestle off with the team.

He did not wrestle for months and months before Midlands.
 
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IAChief32 said:
Average ACL recovery time is 6-9 months. Lee had his surgery Mar/April 2017...started light drilling in August. Started controlled live goes in Oct/Nov. He did not wrestle off with the team.

He did not wrestle for months and months before Midlands.
Click to expand...
Spencer had another minor procedure around October. You are correct about his live goes being controlled almost until Midlands and then he was still heavily monitored to that point. He doesn't lose a match last year without that brace/knee injury. You and WASDT21 summed it up perfect.
 
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Look at Suriano's results at the NCAAs. It appears he recovered nicely. Effect was not great by that point in his recovery.
 
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LagunaBeachHawk said:
Granted....but Spencer has two hands and I am pretty sure one hand ties behind his back would be the only way Rivera wins.

Qualifier is I am the guy who was against Spencer wrestling and a true freshman, and willing to admit I could not have been more wrong.
Click to expand...

Hey...I was against it too for strategic reasons...delay it until 2020. Turns out, Brands may know a little bit more about what his team needs.
 
Descat1 said:
I've said this before, but I'll say it again, because this same narrative is being tossed around, by a few... NS apparently had 8 days in the hospital, Spencer had 8 months off the mat with no training. I'll take 8 days off the mat versus 8 months. NS also had a prior year in a College wrestling room and a College competitive season. So NS had about 7 months and 22 days more mat time than Spencer had last year... I didn't hear any excuses from Spencer when he lost, after having just come back from a serious injury. I'm not taking away anything from NS. He's a tough wrestler and extremely hard to score on, but I agree that 8 days in the hospital was a challenge, but it pales in comparison to the 8 months that Spencer had to deal with last year. I do believe there is more upside to Spencer having a full year of consistent training entering his second collegiate season versus NS getting those 8 days back.
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I don't think you heard an excuse from Suriano either, jusy his fans. There were Hawk fans that made excuses after Lee's loss. It's what fans do.
 
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