Scheduling Question

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Illinois State was left out with a solid RPI because they didn't have quality wins. Iowa was left out because we had a poor RPI despite quality wins. It seems like it may have been a win/win to have scheduled them this year instead of say... Nebraska Omaha at home?

Illinois State had called about 25 teams trying to schedule some match ups with teams from the major conferences, but could not get anyone to accept.

They went as far as to tweet a challenge, looking for a Home and Home commitment for next year.

We've seen posters complain about having too many 300+ RPI teams visiting each year. Would you prefer to drop a home game (which means we don't get the money from admission) in exchange for a quality road game that would certainly be a challenge (but also be an opportunity for a quality road win)?

 

[yippitiyiyo]

I say we schedule a home and home with a ACC/SEC/PAC12 team instead.

 

[33hawkfan]

UNO was actually exactly the kind of team we want to play. The 100-200 RPI teams are who you should be scheduling to game the RPI. It's the Delaware St's and Kennesaw St's that kill your RPI. But I would be all for playing a tough mid major in a home and home deal.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Here is a list of teams I personally think would make some sense based on geography and recent performance:

Illinois State
Wichita State
Dayton
VCU - Further away, but a name-brand, quality opponent.
Colorado State
Belmont
Akron
Ohio
Valparaiso
Oakland
Wright State

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

I say we schedule a home and home with a ACC/SEC/PAC12 team instead.

We essentially have Home and Home with the B12 (Iowa State), Big East (Gavitt Games), and ACC (B1G/ACC Challenge); minus the years we get left out of the Gavitt Games (is that next year?).

Including Drake/UNI is 4 of our 13 conference games, with 4-5 more based on a tournament only leaves about 4-5 games to reach out for. Do you really want to fill those games with more games against the SEC and PAC12 which would generally require a good amount of travel when we are on the road?

 

[FranklinHawk]

Or we could have just taken care of business against Nebraska Omaha.

You also have to remember that often 1-2 of those 200+ RPI teams we end up playing are commitments for early season tournaments, we don't get to pick them.

If you're going to do home-home, I'd say do it with P5 teams.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

There a plenty of decent teams among other leagues such as the Horizon and Summit which make far more sense to play than the kennesaw, delaware state, and ut rio grandes of college basketball.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

I used to say that you wouldn't want to schedule those games because all they can do is hurt you. In the current construction of the selection committee, I disagree with that, top 50-100 games can only HELP you. Look at MSU, Vandy, KSU, and Wake, all of whom have 13+ losses.

It's clear that the committee is going to value good wins over losses. I'd love to see ISU schedule them even in a year like next year where it's extremely unlikely they make the tournament.

 

[yippitiyiyo]

We essentially have Home and Home with the B12 (Iowa State), Big East (Gavitt Games), and ACC (B1G/ACC Challenge); minus the years we get left out of the Gavitt Games (is that next year?).

Including Drake/UNI is 4 of our 13 conference games, with 4-5 more based on a tournament only leaves about 4-5 games to reach out for. Do you really want to fill those games with more games against the SEC and PAC12 which would generally require a good amount of travel when we are on the road?

I'm saying instead of a home and home with Illinois St/Wichita St. If we are going to throw in an extra home and home anyways, then add a Pac12/Big East/Acc/AAc.

Heck, add creighton

 

[yippitiyiyo]

Plus, they have cheap 30 packs of Busch Light in Omaha. I'm in

 

[ichawk24]

Offer Illinois State a good payout to come to CHA. Don't offer a HaH. At least IC is a fairly cheap trip for them.

People frustratingly ask "why do we schedule bad teams", and the answer is always financials.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Offer Illinois State a good payout to come to CHA. Don't offer a HaH. At least IC is a fairly cheap trip for them.

People frustratingly ask "why do we schedule bad teams", and the answer is always financials.

Not asking why - asking a preference. If fans would prefer to lose access to a home game and boost the schedule, I would think the administration could figure out what ticket prices would need to be to offset losing the home game.

I'm also aware that scheduling isn't as simple as just writing down who you want to play, calling them and confirming the date, this is more to get conversation started about the scheduling philosophy.

So far, we've generally taken young teams, and fed them cupcakes to build confidence (see Fran's quote about teaching freshmen how to win). As the talent level in the program increases, I would expect we don't have to do that, and can start teaching them "how to win tough games" or "how to win road games".

I also think offering Illinois State as a "guarantee" game is a pretty good compromise. The question becomes how expensive it would be to get them to come without a home game in return.

 

[Clifford C. Clavin]

As others have pointed out, Iowa's RPI issues are because too many of the "buy" games are against teams in the 300 range. Omaha around 130 is exactly the type of team that they should be scheduling for those games (just need to win). When you look at these leagues to schedule games, you want teams in the top half for sure, which of course you can't always speculate when the games are scheduled.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

Here is a list of teams I personally think would make some sense based on geography and recent performance:

Illinois State
Wichita State
Dayton
VCU - Further away, but a name-brand, quality opponent.
Colorado State
Belmont
Akron
Ohio
Valparaiso
Oakland
Wright State

I agree those are the schools we should be playing. They will match up and actually give you a game. I am sorry but anyone from the MEAC, Atlantic Sun, and other small conferences do not need to be scheduled. I realize they are looking for a $$ game, but we can't afford to do that anymore.

I would like to see a schedule of:

1. MEAC School (season opener get a big W)
2. SUMMIT type of team (UNO, USD)
3. Horizon League team (Valpo, Oakland, etc)
4. Big East (Gavitt tip off classic)
5. MAC School (Akron, Ohio, Northern ILL)
6. ACC Challenge (Whoever we get)
7. ISU game (great non-conf game to have)
8. Big 4 Classic (UNI or Drake)
9. Pay out game (okay with playing a bad team)
10. MVC/Confernce USA (get a team from those conferences)
11-13 (Preseason tournaments whoever you play)

The years we get the ACC & ISU at home, schedule an away game at a Northern ILL or Ill St type of team. Get your players on the road before the conference season starts. If we are on the road of the ACC & ISU game then no need to schedule an away game.

There are options and Fran & Barta have to do a better job of scheduling. Stop playing 4-5 300+ teams. Im okay with 1-2.

 

[yippitiyiyo]

I agree those are the schools we should be playing. They will match up and actually give you a game. I am sorry but anyone from the MEAC, Atlantic Sun, and other small conferences do not need to be scheduled. I realize they are looking for a $$ game, but we can't afford to do that anymore.

I would like to see a schedule of:

1. MEAC School (season opener get a big W)
2. SUMMIT type of team (UNO, USD)
3. Horizon League team (Valpo, Oakland, etc)
4. Big East (Gavitt tip off classic)
5. MAC School (Akron, Ohio, Northern ILL)
6. ACC Challenge (Whoever we get)
7. ISU game (great non-conf game to have)
8. Big 4 Classic (UNI or Drake)
9. Pay out game (okay with playing a bad team)
10. MVC/Confernce USA (get a team from those conferences)
11-13 (Preseason tournaments whoever you play)

The years we get the ACC & ISU at home, schedule an away game at a Northern ILL or Ill St type of team. Get your players on the road before the conference season starts. If we are on the road of the ACC & ISU game then no need to schedule an away game.

There are options and Fran & Barta have to do a better job of scheduling. Stop playing 4-5 300+ teams. Im okay with 1-2.

WOW, you put a lot of thought into this

 

[DavenportHawk8]

WOW, you put a lot of thought into this

Thanks! I figure we have top 15 conferences in our area that we should be scheduling against. Not playing the MEAC, Atlantic Sun, SWAC, or Big Sky multiple times. Every single one of those teams will have an RPI of somewhere around 200-300+. That is not good for your RPI overall.

There is just some great competition in those leagues and those teams will not be over 250 RPI (which is an RPI killer). Looking at most of the conferences that I mentioned most of the teams were between 50-200. That's your sweet spot in terms of the RPI.

The MAC had 8 teams finish in the top 200 of the RPI
The Horizon League had 5 teams finish in the top 200 RPI
The Summit league had 5 teams finish in the top 200 as well
Missouri Valley had 6 teams finish top 200
The Sun Belt had 8 teams finish in the top 200

If Iowa replaces their 5 teams of 300+ RPI with top 200 teams their RPI is probably around upper 60's and probably closer to getting in.

I think you will see Fran challenge this group next year. I know back in 2012 he was very hesitant to send the young team to the dogs. He scheduled softer and it ended up costing them a bid (went to NIT that year). I think this year was similar with such a young squad he "tested" them, but also scheduled some cupcakes in between.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Thanks! I figure we have top 15 conferences in our area that we should be scheduling against. Not playing the MEAC, Atlantic Sun, SWAC, or Big Sky multiple times. Every single one of those teams will have an RPI of somewhere around 200-300+. That is not good for your RPI overall.

There is just some great competition in those leagues and those teams will not be over 250 RPI (which is an RPI killer). Looking at most of the conferences that I mentioned most of the teams were between 50-200. That's your sweet spot in terms of the RPI.

The MAC had 8 teams finish in the top 200 of the RPI
The Horizon League had 5 teams finish in the top 200 RPI
The Summit league had 5 teams finish in the top 200 as well
Missouri Valley had 6 teams finish top 200
The Sun Belt had 8 teams finish in the top 200

If Iowa replaces their 5 teams of 300+ RPI with top 200 teams their RPI is probably around upper 60's and probably closer to getting in.

I think you will see Fran challenge this group next year. I know back in 2012 he was very hesitant to send the young team to the dogs. He scheduled softer and it ended up costing them a bid (went to NIT that year). I think this year was similar with such a young squad he "tested" them, but also scheduled some cupcakes in between.

As others have mentioned, it's not like Iowa needs to go out and add 4 more games against P5 competition in addition to what is on the schedule. The biggest thing is in reducing the volume of games against the absolute dreck. Iowa had 5 games against teams above 260 in the RPI. Yes, Iowa lost to UNO. But the games against UNO and North Dakota are exactly the types of games that don't kill the RPI.

I really don't think Fran needs to "challenge" the team much more next year, other than just having fewer of the really bad teams on the schedule. Playing a true road game against Iowa State, participating in the Big Ten/Big East Challenge (likely home game) and playing in some sort of neutral site tournament would be a very good start to a non-con schedule. Then Iowa has the neutral site game with Colorado in Sioux Falls, and the game in the Big 4 Classic with Drake. That schedule sets up well with lots of winnable neutral site and even a road game. Before Iowa State fans complain that I'm counting on an Iowa win next year, I'm not. Iowa State loses a lot and Iowa returns a lot, but I'll believe Iowa actually winning in Ames when I see it after the last 2 Iowa trips there.

The trickier step is filling out the home schedule with decent/not-great teams. To the issue with Illinois State, I sympathize with them to an extent. They also need to realize they are likely going to not get home and home dates with P5 schools. Maybe they have tried to set up neutral court games with P5 schools, I don't know. But you aren't a P5 school, so don't get offended when P5 schools don't want to do home and home series with you.

 

[ichawk24]

I think the Illinois State coach would have gotten more sympathy if he tweeted "we will play any P5 team any time, any where", rather than demanding a HaH.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Why in gods name would we play Illinois state instead of UNI????

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Because we already play UNI every other year on a neutral court. Illinois State ideally would replace the Savannah State or Kennesaw State or Texas Rio Grande's of the world.

 

[iahawks10]

I'm sure two of the games (like many years) that are +250 RPI are the opening rounds of their tournament Emerald CC. How much say do the participating P5 schools have in scheduling the filler teams like Savanna St and UT-Rio Grand Vally?

Even with the Thanksgiving tournaments, Iowa needs to strengthen their schedule more with 100-150 ranked teams and drop the +200 ranked games.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I'm sure two of the games (like many years) that are +250 RPI are the opening rounds of their tournament Emerald CC. How much say do the participating P5 schools have in scheduling the filler teams like Savanna St and UT-Rio Grand Vally?

Even with the Thanksgiving tournaments, Iowa needs to strengthen their schedule more with 100-150 ranked teams and drop the +200 ranked games.

Good question.

If they have no say, then say no to that tourney and find a different one.

 

[dmoore27]

I agree with playing a better OOC schedule

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I think the Illinois State coach would have gotten more sympathy if he tweeted "we will play any P5 team any time, any where", rather than demanding a HaH.

I thought the same thing ichawk! Of course p5 schools don't want to do a HaH with Ill State. Plenty of p5 schools will schedule if you agree to go their place, but they don't want to go to Normal, IL.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Savannah St (282) and UT Rio Grande Valley (317) were part of the Emerald Coast Classic. Stetson (329), Delaware St (334) and Kennesaw St (261) were just regular games. 2 games vs 200+ is enough and you usually get those as a part of a tournament. No reason to play 3 more 250+ all at home with a half full arena.

Iowa played 1 true road game in non conference play. Schedule needs to get better, that doesn't necessarily mean much tougher.

 

[comet_y2k]

I havent been able to find (havent looked that hard) what pre-season tourney the Hawks are in next year, and who else is in the field, is that info out yet?

 

[megahawk]

If Iowa beat Omaha or win the Minnesota game like they should have I assume they would have been in the tournament since we were the last 4 out. But if Iowa replaces Creighton on the schedule instead of Omaha and they lose, would they have gotten in?

 

[bagdropper]

I think the Illinois State coach would have gotten more sympathy if he tweeted "we will play any P5 team any time, any where", rather than demanding a HaH.

Exactly.

It's like Iowa scheduling football teams. Posters start 50 threads a year about the football non-con - yet fail to acknowledge the simple fact that at the very least, Iowa needs fairness when talking to another P5 school yet absolutely must get home games every year.

Why enrich them at the expense of your record? Monetarily speaking, you're doing your own program(s) a disservice in doing that. And whom Iowa talks to does the EXACT same thing under the exact same realities. And you can talk about "well Wisconsin pulls off neutral site" games...but that's Wisconsin and twice as many TV sets and more of a national name, and not "Iowa".

TV can't sell Iowa vs LSU in KC or Dallas like it can LSU vs Wisconsin in Lambeau.

Wisconsin must be making as much money as a home game is the ONLY reason they've done these recently. Sure you want a better non-con...but sooner or later, budgets will dictate whether the games are repeated or not. And if they start giving money away, Barry's going to have to stop them.

I know posters like to claim the B10N cash mitigates that need nowadays, but when it gets right down to it, there's a reason why the richest of the rich most always schedule patsies too.

Look at your average November SEC schedule for proof. Not only do they play AA teams, they play BAD AA teams. The underlying thing about scheduling an FCS game at all was $, pure and simple - and the fact that they can do it.

Every program needs money via home games. Illinois State basketball is no exception. Hell, Iowa basketball needs home non-con games. And lower level 1-A basketball teams can make enough money to run their entire program for a year by running a gauntlet of P5 schools at their place knowing that for one, it makes them better for their conference, and two - they have no choice economically.

So, Iowa gets willing takers. You just have to hope that a UNO doesn't happen cause (go figure) it can mean the difference between the dance and the NIT in some years.

There's a reason why we have those conference tie-in games nowadays. AD's know that's the only way to improve both conference's scheduling profile and make it fair monetarily speaking cause they can sell better TV money for them.

Illinois State would be better off offering a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 if they actually want to improve their non-con via P5 schools cause at least they might get actual takers of that.

 

[yippitiyiyo]

Exactly.

It's like Iowa scheduling football teams. Posters start 50 threads a year about the football non-con - yet fail to acknowledge the simple fact that at the very least, Iowa needs fairness when talking to another P5 school yet absolutely must get home games every year.

Why enrich them at the expense of your record? Monetarily speaking, you're doing your own program(s) a disservice in doing that. And whom Iowa talks to does the EXACT same thing under the exact same realities. And you can talk about "well Wisconsin pulls off neutral site" games...but that's Wisconsin and twice as many TV sets and more of a national name, and not "Iowa".

TV can't sell Iowa vs LSU in KC or Dallas like it can LSU vs Wisconsin in Lambeau.

Wisconsin must be making as much money as a home game is the ONLY reason they've done these recently. Sure you want a better non-con...but sooner or later, budgets will dictate whether the games are repeated or not. And if they start giving money away, Barry's going to have to stop them.

I know posters like to claim the B10N cash mitigates that need nowadays, but when it gets right down to it, there's a reason why the richest of the rich most always schedule patsies too.

Look at your average November SEC schedule for proof. Not only do they play AA teams, they play BAD AA teams. The underlying thing about scheduling an FCS game at all was $, pure and simple - and the fact that they can do it.

Every program needs money via home games. Illinois State basketball is no exception. Hell, Iowa basketball needs home non-con games. And lower level 1-A basketball teams can make enough money to run their entire program for a year by running a gauntlet of P5 schools at their place knowing that for one, it makes them better for their conference, and two - they have no choice economically.

So, Iowa gets willing takers. You just have to hope that a UNO doesn't happen cause (go figure) it can mean the difference between the dance and the NIT in some years.

There's a reason why we have those conference tie-in games nowadays. AD's know that's the only way to improve both conference's scheduling profile and make it fair monetarily speaking cause they can sell better TV money for them.

Illinois State would be better off offering a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 if they actually want to improve their non-con via P5 schools cause at least they might get actual takers of that.

Holy cow. I'm new to responding on these boards, but you guys put thought into this like its rhetoric class.

 

[MepoDawg#]

I havent been able to find (havent looked that hard) what pre-season tourney the Hawks are in next year, and who else is in the field, is that info out yet?

Cayman Island Classic

Buffalo Bulls (MAC)
Cincinnati Bearcats(American)
Iowa Hawkeyes (Big Ten)
UL Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns(Sun Belt)
Richmond Spiders (A 10)
South Dakota State Jackrabbits (Summit)
UAB Blazers (C-USA)
Wyoming Cowboys (MW)

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Savannah St (282) and UT Rio Grande Valley (317) were part of the Emerald Coast Classic. Stetson (329), Delaware St (334) and Kennesaw St (261) were just regular games. 2 games vs 200+ is enough and you usually get those as a part of a tournament. No reason to play 3 more 250+ all at home with a half full arena.

Iowa played 1 true road game in non conference play. Schedule needs to get better, that doesn't necessarily mean much tougher.

This.

And I'm just talking about moving up the spectrum somewhat. Not necessarily taking on a sparty like schedule where you face multiple perennial powers from game 1. UNO was the type of team they should be scheduling; obviously they should beat them.
The pain of this was self-inflicted, as you point out, with at least 3 games that were entirely under their control and could have been avoided.

 

[kceasthawk]

Thanks! I figure we have top 15 conferences in our area that we should be scheduling against. Not playing the MEAC, Atlantic Sun, SWAC, or Big Sky multiple times. Every single one of those teams will have an RPI of somewhere around 200-300+. That is not good for your RPI overall.

There is just some great competition in those leagues and those teams will not be over 250 RPI (which is an RPI killer). Looking at most of the conferences that I mentioned most of the teams were between 50-200. That's your sweet spot in terms of the RPI.

The MAC had 8 teams finish in the top 200 of the RPI
The Horizon League had 5 teams finish in the top 200 RPI
The Summit league had 5 teams finish in the top 200 as well
Missouri Valley had 6 teams finish top 200
The Sun Belt had 8 teams finish in the top 200

If Iowa replaces their 5 teams of 300+ RPI with top 200 teams their RPI is probably around upper 60's and probably closer to getting in.

I think you will see Fran challenge this group next year. I know back in 2012 he was very hesitant to send the young team to the dogs. He scheduled softer and it ended up costing them a bid (went to NIT that year). I think this year was similar with such a young squad he "tested" them, but also scheduled some cupcakes in between.

Just a question, I thought the RPI wasn't going to be used as a major qualifier after this season?

 

[MepoDawg#]

Just a question, I thought the RPI wasn't going to be used as a major qualifier after this season?

Time will tell, but some version of RPI and strength of schedule will be used.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Cayman Island Classic

Buffalo Bulls (MAC)
Cincinnati Bearcats(American)
Iowa Hawkeyes (Big Ten)
UL Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns(Sun Belt)
Richmond Spiders (A 10)
South Dakota State Jackrabbits (Summit)
UAB Blazers (C-USA)
Wyoming Cowboys (MW)

Only one team below 150 in there. UAB is around 200.

Since this is so easy, everyone should go on record for their projections of these teams RPI for next year.

 

[paladinhawk]

Only one team below 150 in there. UAB is around 200.

Since this is so easy, everyone should go on record for their projections of these teams RPI for next year.

This sounds like fun; I need to break it down into sections due to time constraints:

Cincinnati Bearcats:top 25 imo I'll arbitrarily assign an RPI of 28
Iowa Hawkeyes : RPI 45 defense still an issue at times
UL Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns(Sun Belt): young team should be better Improve their RPI to 103
Wyoming (MW) no big change RPI 150
S.D Jackrabbits - lose 2 seniors RPI drops to about 190
UAB - loses 4 seniors RPI drops to 230

more to come as time allows

 

[Mohawkeye]

With a much more experienced and talented team coming back next year, I look for Fran to create a much tougher schedule. Kind of like what he did when Woody etc were seniors.

 

[Drmac22]

You can never tell how a team will perform. Look at the USD team we played last night, they were predicted to be lower half of their conf and they win it. Iowa was suppose to be bottom of the Big Ten and finish tied for 5th. Never Know.