Setting the Bar for QB1 this Fall (a little long)

iowaflash

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Where I will disagree with you is that either Joey or Alex are “owed” their opportunity. We might think they’re better options than Spencer. They need to earn it. Spencer is still the #1 for now, but I do think Labas closed the gap, and Alex missed some time with injury, so I’m curious how the rest of summer and then fall camp goes.

All internet complaints to the contrary, Kirk and Brian are not in fact idiots, and are well aware that winning in the fashion they did last year with the offensive (lack) of production they got, is not sustainable. Either Petras needs to take a leap or one of the other QBs needs to take the spot away from them, but neither should be handed anything.
Agreed, they are owed their opportunities after earning it. What was Padilla’s injury at the beginning of Spring?
 
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iowaflash

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Well then, I guess you should forward your analysis on the the coaches.
Guess I can say the same with all of your posts and comments….why be an *ss? You’re posting on a message board designed for comments/opinions about Hawkeye Football. Why act like you’re some type of royalty or founder of HR?
 

sober_teacher

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Agreed. they are owed their opportunities after earning it. What was Padilla’s injury at the beginning of Spring?
Not sure they specified. It was just mentioned in spring ball postmortems that Padilla was one of those who missed time in the spring due to injury.
 
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WinOneThisCentury II

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Well, in his defense, the jNW game in 2020 probably scared him away from that. He has said he was in "take what the defense give you" mode. jNW was committed (over-committed) to stopping the run, so BF called a bunch of passes, resulting in a bunch of pics, a blown lead and, ultimately, a loss.
We had a third and one around the 25 yard line late in that game...and he got cute on 3rd down and ran an outside zone and lost yardage, we got stopped on 4th. That was our opportunity to tie that game or go up if he lines up and runs right at them...we get a yard in two tries.

I get what you are saying though. Petras was in game two of his career...that was another reason to question the wisdom...but honestly...it was probably the right strategy...we just couldn't execute it. NW notoriously has forced Iowa to throw by stacking the box...but then changing defenses at the last minute in the secondary. They have always disguised what they are doing well with the back seven.
 
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sober_teacher

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We had a third and one around the 25 yard line late in that game...and he got cute on 3rd down and ran an outside zone and lost yardage, we got stopped on 4th. That was our opportunity to tie that game or go up if he lines up and runs right at them...we get a yard in two tries.

I get what you are saying though. Petras was in game two of his career...that was another reason to question the wisdom...but honestly...it was probably the right strategy...we just couldn't execute it. NW notoriously has forced Iowa to throw by stacking the box...but then changing defenses at the last minute in the secondary. They have always disguised what they are doing well with the back seven.

I’d have to look at the box score again but I seem to recall we were doing a decent job running the ball in the game even with them stacking the box. Brian got Jedi mind-tricked in that game.

It’s what frustrates me about him as OC. He calls fairly good games, and then also has clunkers as well. Understandable at first, but should be happening less as time goes on - allowing for the fact that all coaches have clunkers on occasion.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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We had a third and one around the 25 yard line late in that game...and he got cute on 3rd down and ran an outside zone and lost yardage, we got stopped on 4th. That was our opportunity to tie that game or go up if he lines up and runs right at them...we get a yard in two tries.

I get what you are saying though. Petras was in game two of his career...that was another reason to question the wisdom...but honestly...it was probably the right strategy...we just couldn't execute it. NW notoriously has forced Iowa to throw by stacking the box...but then changing defenses at the last minute in the secondary. They have always disguised what they are doing well with the back seven.
Didn't Iowa have the most drops in the country last year. How different would the offense have looked if we had like 40% of those drops. More 1st downs, more passes and better running. Those drops have a big effect on the QBs efficiency and the offensive's scoring ability.
 

obfuscating

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Disclosure: many of my last season posts leaned toward giving AP more game time look and evaluation, based on his performance with opportunities when called upon in 2021.

KF recently acknowledged we must have better QB play, and an Open Competition including JL will be embraced with this Spring/Summer workouts. No Iowa QB in transfer portal is good in the sense that all 3 are well familiar with the Iowa playbook, which gives more hope for better execution in 2022. After much thinking about how much eligibility each QB has remaining, plus what we already know about SP’s ceiling over the past couple of years, here’s what I believe the dynamics should be, while KF and BF observes the progression growth and development of SP, AP, and JL…..

If SP cannot show that he’s at least 25% better than BOTH AP and JL, then he should NOT be named the starting QB in August. His winning record argument entitling him to start is skewed, because it can be debated that almost any P5 average QB could have had the same or better record, with this supporting cast. We know what we know about SP in almost two full years of play, and what he has left at Iowa, which is his Senior year coming up and a possible Covid year afterward.

If AP or JL is easily within 25% of SP, whichever one is more impressive, gets QB1 opportunity, because either will grow into the position to exceed SP’s ceiling, and either has more upside in terms of eligibility, assuming May and Marco need adequate time to learn and practice for the big stage. If both AP and JL are within 25% of SP, then you have QB1 and QB2 for 2022, and SP becomes emergency QB3, good teammate calling in signals, and player/coach in other meaningful ways. SP shouldn’t feel sad about this relegated role. He did the best he could (like Jake Christensen), wanted Iowa to succeed, but needs to accept a new way to help the team providing depth. Also, his Mom will be spared future criticism of her son in the newspapers or message boards.

So there it is, and it’s very simple. If we would have had better (expected) QB1 play last season, at the very least we would’ve kept the Purdue, Wisconsin, and Michigan games much closer, and we would have been Citrus Bowl Champions. We know KF and BF can’t just come out and say as much, but we can only hope they will be bold enough to shake up the QB situation, if SP only barely beats out AP and JL…….
And as we all saw, the "open competition" was SP with the 1's as the Spring game. Not really an "open" competition.
 

sober_teacher

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And as we all saw, the "open competition" was SP with the 1's as the Spring game. Not really an "open" competition.
We also know that Padilla missed a decent chunk of the spring as well but played well afterwards, unsure how much time he ended up getting with the 1s.

imo, spring was a mixed bag due to injuries. Benson, Campbell and Jacobs are the 3 LBs if healthy, so not a big deal that they missed parts of the spring, but the silver lining there is that the backups got a lot of reps. conversely, on offense it sounds like many of the receivers and tight ends all missed a bunch of time, which makes it harder to gauge the about competition between the QBs.
 

Frosty7130

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And as we all saw, the "open competition" was SP with the 1's as the Spring game. Not really an "open" competition.
If you're still putting stock into what was no more than an exhibition from the fans with half of the team out, there's not much helping you.

Each guy only got 1 drive. The actual competition happened during closed practices.
 

obfuscating

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If you're still putting stock into what was no more than an exhibition from the fans with half of the team out, there's not much helping you.

Each guy only got 1 drive. The actual competition happened during closed practices.
Many were out. Regular (closed) practices didn't see an even % of snaps with the 1's either. Competition was between AP and JL for backup.
 

SDHawkDoc

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I firmly believe the Citrus Bowl was essentially a last chance interview for Petras for the starting role entering the spring. He fell short. Barring a massive leap this spring, or failure by Padilla/Labas to progress, I will be shocked if he’s named the starter at the end of the spring. Best case for him, imo, is a failure by either of the other two to separate prior to the end of spring ball and he maybe gains traction as the “safe” option - as limited as that would make the ceiling for the offense.

To me, the competition (I hope), should primarily be between Padilla and Labas, again, unless Petras makes a huge leap. As you said, we know who and what Spencer is by now, and the ceiling doesn’t appear to be what we hoped it was. Limited idea of who Padilla is, and just promising noises about Labas. It is notable however, that Kirk mentioned Labas by name last week when discussing the open competition. He doesn’t often mention guys if they don’t at least have a decent chance for a spot.
I'm guessing that you aren't shocked.

I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1. But if I'm reading your premise as you intended, there was really nothing this spring to show movement on the part of any of the 3. SP did not make any massive leap, but neither did either of the others whether through injury or lack of performance.

SP is the QB not by winning some high performance battle, but rather by default.
 

littlez

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I'm guessing that you aren't shocked.

I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1. But if I'm reading your premise as you intended, there was really nothing this spring to show movement on the part of any of the 3. SP did not make any massive leap, but neither did either of the others whether through injury or lack of performance.

SP is the QB not by winning some high performance battle, but rather by default.
This I believe 100%. From most reports Labas is still quite a bit behind, which is very disappointing. If true, then there's really no competition, and we need to hope that Petras will somehow make strides this year because I don't see Labas getting the job.
 

cmhawks99

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He's not going to make too many off schedule plays where he buys time with his legs. Would it be great if he could do the Ben Rothlisberger side step and have that presence in the pocket to just buy a wiggle of time...sure...Spencer hasn't shown that kind of calm in the pocket. What he has shown, is that he can throw on the boot action out of play action...and he will stand in there and deliver a ball with guys coming at him. He made several throws like that last year.

I don't think anyone on here doesn't recognize he needs to improve under pressure...but you can't expect an offense designed to operate on play action...to be wildly effective if the running game sucks. Against good teams, we couldn't run the ball. That's a problem.

It will be interesting to see if BF changes his mentality a little this year. One of the things I really like with the O'Keefe offensive strategy was that he would throw you out of a loaded box. I can remember several games where Iowa opened with 7 straight passes or had stretches where they threw the ball every down. It forced the defense to change what they were doing. BF's built this offense around constant threat of running on every down...and he hasn't been willing to sling it around. I'm sure the offensive line struggles last year was a big reason for that...and his QBs haven't been great in pass completion percentage.

Yet “those fans” didn’t like Ken either, go figure.

PS….25 drops is horrific!!
 
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SDHawkDoc

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This I believe 100%. From most reports Labas is still quite a bit behind, which is very disappointing. If true, then there's really no competition, and we need to hope that Petras will somehow make strides this year because I don't see Labas getting the job.
So, unfortunately, hoping that SP makes a big improvement from what we've seen on the field so far is what's left.

That's consistent with what the 2 or 3 B1G QB review articles that I found said. The consensus was that Petras is thought to be anywhere between the 10th-13th ranked qb in the B1G going into the fall. "He is what he is" and "what you see is what you get" was essentially the thought on him. I did specifically see a comment to the effect that hoping he makes a big improvement is where things stand for Hawkeye fans.

While it's certainly possible, I don't have high confidence in the "hoping he makes huge improvement" strategy being successful. Even with a clean pocket for 3+ seconds, which is the exception rather than the rule against the top half of the league, he has hardly been stellar. College qbs either need to be able to make plays with their legs, which is the majority of them. Or they need to be incredibly fast decision makers and deliver the ball accurately with a shorter time window.

If he can be a marginally better game manager than what he's predicted to be, maybe 8th or 9th best qb in the league, that at least seems achievable. Not huge improvement, but at least some improvement.
 
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sober_teacher

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I'm guessing that you aren't shocked.

I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1. But if I'm reading your premise as you intended, there was really nothing this spring to show movement on the part of any of the 3. SP did not make any massive leap, but neither did either of the others whether through injury or lack of performance.

SP is the QB not by winning some high performance battle, but rather by default.
curious why you believe Kirk lied about an open competition. As far as I know, while spencer remains the official starter, the about competition is still ongoing, which is what most reporters expected back in the spring. As you say, I think spencer remains the starter by default. I do believe the injuries had a major impact on the competition.
This I believe 100%. From most reports Labas is still quite a bit behind, which is very disappointing. If true, then there's really no competition, and we need to hope that Petras will somehow make strides this year because I don't see Labas getting the job.

stuff I’ve heard in podcasts made it sound like Labas close the gap, but still behind. Unsure how wide that gap is, and obviously Padilla is still there as well.
 

cmhawks99

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Here is where the rubber hits the highway…

By any objective standard our quarterback play was horrific last year, as we all know of course!

but also by any objective standard. I don’t see any reason why fans would be clamoring for Padilla order Petras. Joey, sure, I get that. In fact I’m in that camp!

I also agree Petrase is a statue and his happy feet are as annoying as hell and his pocket awareness is shocking… But you can put me in the camp that really has zero love for Padilla and his potential upside.

I would still take the 6-5 big, strong armed guy that we “know “can make all the throws and I would do the best I could to put a line in front of him to keep him upright and hope our running game improved dramatically to further help him out.

Over the years & even still to this day. I have seen enough data and remember the Banks, Stanzi, Rudock stuff enough that never in 100 years would I consistently whine and bitch about those “dumb all coaches“! I have zero problems with their personnel decisions.

I do question their ability to teach consistent fluid offensive football but I don’t see the same bullshit everybody else likes to wax on and on and on about…


Honestly a high-end professional like a Kirk Ferentz wouldn’t have even a modicum of the accolades he does if he consistently played the wrong quarterback!!!

Its honestly just too dumb to even believe people continually bandy that about!
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Here is where the rubber hits the highway…

By any objective standard our quarterback play was horrific last year, as we all know of course!

but also by any objective standard. I don’t see any reason why fans would be clamoring for Padilla order Petras. Joey, sure, I get that. In fact I’m in that camp!

I also agree Petrase is a statue and his happy feet are as annoying as hell and his pocket awareness is shocking… But you can put me in the camp that really has zero love for Padilla and his potential upside.

I would still take the 6-5 big, strong armed guy that we “know “can make all the throws and I would do the best I could to put a line in front of him to keep him upright and hope our running game improved dramatically to further help him out.

Over the years & even still to this day. I have seen enough data and remember the Banks, Stanzi, Rudock stuff enough that never in 100 years would I consistently whine and bitch about those “dumb all coaches“! I have zero problems with their personnel decisions.

I do question their ability to teach consistent fluid offensive football but I don’t see the same bullshit everybody else likes to wax on and on and on about…


Honestly a high-end professional like a Kirk Ferentz wouldn’t have even a modicum of the accolades he does if he consistently played the wrong quarterback!!!

Its honestly just too dumb to even believe people continually bandy that about!
It's just a myth that a number of posters just won't give up. They make up lies in their minds just to complain about QB assessment. The two game "rivalry" between Christensen and Stanzi. It was a ballsy move because Jake outplayed Ricky in the first two games. Rudock and Beathard was another ballsy call because Rudock outplayed CJ all season but the coaches again went with the more athletic big play guy. The Brad Banks junior season has become a BIG LIE, ignoring BB's own statements that he wasn't ready to start as a junior, coming from junior college.
 
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cmhawks99

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It's just a myth that a number of posters just won't give up. They make up lies in their minds just to complain about QB assessment. The two game "rivalry" between Christensen and Stanzi. It was a ballsy move because Jake outplayed Ricky in the first two games. Rudock and Beathard was another ballsy call because Rudock outplayed CJ all season but the coaches again went with the more athletic big play guy. The Brad Banks junior season has become a BIG LIE, ignoring BB's own statements that he wasn't ready to start as a junior, coming from junior college.

I may be remembering this wrong but I am not positive Brad Banks wasn’t still playing some wide receiver in junior college before they made him the starting quarterback his sophomore year?!
 

BCRoss89

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Disclosure: many of my last season posts leaned toward giving AP more game time look and evaluation, based on his performance with opportunities when called upon in 2021.

KF recently acknowledged we must have better QB play, and an Open Competition including JL will be embraced with this Spring/Summer workouts. No Iowa QB in transfer portal is good in the sense that all 3 are well familiar with the Iowa playbook, which gives more hope for better execution in 2022. After much thinking about how much eligibility each QB has remaining, plus what we already know about SP’s ceiling over the past couple of years, here’s what I believe the dynamics should be, while KF and BF observes the progression growth and development of SP, AP, and JL…..

If SP cannot show that he’s at least 25% better than BOTH AP and JL, then he should NOT be named the starting QB in August. His winning record argument entitling him to start is skewed, because it can be debated that almost any P5 average QB could have had the same or better record, with this supporting cast. We know what we know about SP in almost two full years of play, and what he has left at Iowa, which is his Senior year coming up and a possible Covid year afterward.

If AP or JL is easily within 25% of SP, whichever one is more impressive, gets QB1 opportunity, because either will grow into the position to exceed SP’s ceiling, and either has more upside in terms of eligibility, assuming May and Marco need adequate time to learn and practice for the big stage. If both AP and JL are within 25% of SP, then you have QB1 and QB2 for 2022, and SP becomes emergency QB3, good teammate calling in signals, and player/coach in other meaningful ways. SP shouldn’t feel sad about this relegated role. He did the best he could (like Jake Christensen), wanted Iowa to succeed, but needs to accept a new way to help the team providing depth. Also, his Mom will be spared future criticism of her son in the newspapers or message boards.

So there it is, and it’s very simple. If we would have had better (expected) QB1 play last season, at the very least we would’ve kept the Purdue, Wisconsin, and Michigan games much closer, and we would have been Citrus Bowl Champions. We know KF and BF can’t just come out and say as much, but we can only hope they will be bold enough to shake up the QB situation, if SP only barely beats out AP and JL…….
CJ Beathard was the last guy to jump to 1st string, and I believe he had clearly demonstrated that he was best QB, winning over the hearts and minds of the coaching staff at that time. So, until Alex or Joe do the same, Spencer is our man. Thankfully, the 2022 version of Spencer will be significantly better one.

A coaching evaluation of "close but not as good as Spencer", is not fair to Spencer nor to every other player who has won a starting position on the team. That....is a very slippery slope my friend.
 
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cmhawks99

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CJ Beathard was the last guy to jump to 1st string, and I believe he had clearly demonstrated that he was best QB, winning over the hearts and minds of the coaching staff at that time. So, until Alex or Joe do the same, Spencer is our man. Thankfully, the 2022 version of Spencer will be significantly better one.

A coaching evaluation of "close but not as good as Spencer", is not fair to Spencer nor to every other player who has won a starting position on the team. That....is a very slippery slope my friend.

This is a very true sentiment!
 
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SDHawkDoc

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curious why you believe Kirk lied about an open competition. As far as I know, while spencer remains the official starter, the about competition is still ongoing, which is what most reporters expected back in the spring. As you say, I think spencer remains the starter by default. I do believe the injuries had a major impact on the competition.
Didn't say that I thought Kirk "lied".

Here is my comment: "I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1."
I think it's entirely plausible that from Kirk's point of view it's always an open competition at every position. What I'm suggesting is that he has such built in preferences and required parameters as to what he wants as a measure of "success" for his QB1 that it's more like a foot than a thumb on the scale.

I don't care if a guy can't learn all the plays in the playbook to perfection. However it may be priority one, outweighing everything else, for Kirk. So, where I think it might be reasonable to cut the playbook some and let a qb be more free to improvise, he may never want to see that happen. That can then get you to a situation where SP is the best option because he can pass a written test on the plays in the playbook better than the other guys on the roster and follows orders from the sideline exactly as given. Even if he can't run a lick and doesn't seem to possess very good pocket presence.
It's Kirk's team. He makes the rules as to what he wants at every position. From the outside what it appears is that he wants his qb to know all the details of the playbook to an excruciating degree, thus the insane length of time it takes one to learn the system. Also, that the qb is a strict order follower. Improvising is bad.

It's the "offense doesn't win games, but it can definitely lose games" philosophy.

So the "best" qb is the guy who is safest with the ball, never takes chances, always follows orders, knows every detail of the playbook to perfection and doesn't improvise.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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I may be remembering this wrong but I am not positive Brad Banks wasn’t still playing some wide receiver in junior college before they made him the starting quarterback his sophomore year?!
Can't remember. He played something other than QB for at least part of his junior college career, but it's JUCO and they could have been using him in two roles. Just cannot remember his recruitment.
 
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BCRoss89

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Didn't say that I thought Kirk "lied".

Here is my comment: "I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1."
I think it's entirely plausible that from Kirk's point of view it's always an open competition at every position. What I'm suggesting is that he has such built in preferences and required parameters as to what he wants as a measure of "success" for his QB1 that it's more like a foot than a thumb on the scale.

I don't care if a guy can't learn all the plays in the playbook to perfection. However it may be priority one, outweighing everything else, for Kirk. So, where I think it might be reasonable to cut the playbook some and let a qb be more free to improvise, he may never want to see that happen. That can then get you to a situation where SP is the best option because he can pass a written test on the plays in the playbook better than the other guys on the roster and follows orders from the sideline exactly as given. Even if he can't run a lick and doesn't seem to possess very good pocket presence.
It's Kirk's team. He makes the rules as to what he wants at every position. From the outside what it appears is that he wants his qb to know all the details of the playbook to an excruciating degree, thus the insane length of time it takes one to learn the system. Also, that the qb is a strict order follower. Improvising is bad.

It's the "offense doesn't win games, but it can definitely lose games" philosophy.

So the "best" qb is the guy who is safest with the ball, never takes chances, always follows orders, knows every detail of the playbook to perfection and doesn't improvise.
The best QB, the man who touches the ball on every play, that makes the fewest mistakes (fumbles, INTs, negative plays), who knows the playbook and his personal on the field at all times...I agree that is part of Kirk's criteria. Another important factor is leadership. There are other position coaches and players who can let Kirk know if Spencer has lost command or respect of the players in the huddle, lost the faith of our Defensive team leaders. I have not been hearing this is the case, have others?

Not so sure about "never takes chances" and "never improvising". I have seen Spencer improvise plenty, off rhythm throws, taking a step or two in the pocket, waiting for an open receiver, and taking a chance on a small opening to complete a pass.

Beyond this, is he (or any of our current QBs) really the guy you want to improvise, on his own, leaving the other 10 guys going wtf? You are talking "Brad Banks" kind of skills right?
 
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sober_teacher

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Didn't say that I thought Kirk "lied".

Here is my comment: "I didn't believe for a minute there was any intent to have what I would consider a true open competition for qb1."
I think it's entirely plausible that from Kirk's point of view it's always an open competition at every position. What I'm suggesting is that he has such built in preferences and required parameters as to what he wants as a measure of "success" for his QB1 that it's more like a foot than a thumb on the scale.

I don't care if a guy can't learn all the plays in the playbook to perfection. However it may be priority one, outweighing everything else, for Kirk. So, where I think it might be reasonable to cut the playbook some and let a qb be more free to improvise, he may never want to see that happen. That can then get you to a situation where SP is the best option because he can pass a written test on the plays in the playbook better than the other guys on the roster and follows orders from the sideline exactly as given. Even if he can't run a lick and doesn't seem to possess very good pocket presence.
It's Kirk's team. He makes the rules as to what he wants at every position. From the outside what it appears is that he wants his qb to know all the details of the playbook to an excruciating degree, thus the insane length of time it takes one to learn the system. Also, that the qb is a strict order follower. Improvising is bad.

It's the "offense doesn't win games, but it can definitely lose games" philosophy.

So the "best" qb is the guy who is safest with the ball, never takes chances, always follows orders, knows every detail of the playbook to perfection and doesn't improvise.

Do you think Padilla stays if he didn’t think it was a true open competition?

You can mince words but you saying it wasn’t a true open competition means that at the very least you don’t think Kirk wasn’t being entirely honest, ergo, he lied.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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So the "best" qb is the guy who is safest with the ball, never takes chances, always follows orders, knows every detail of the playbook to perfection and doesn't improvise.

Which would explain the move from the low turnover guy, Jake C in favor of the unproven wild man Stanzi? Same question of low turnover high completion Jake R in favor of the much riskier choice of C J Beathard. Obviously Drew Tate and Brad Banks would never have been recruited by Iowa. Even Nate Stanley tried to stick the ball in some ridiculously small holes that looked impossible.

History does not support the stereotype you cast. However, the coaches' repeated statement about the learning curve does lead to your second conclusion-if highly recruited QBs take years to "learn the offense" the offense should be simplified. Petras and Padilla both seem like pretty smart guys, who are probably pretty good students. So, it's not like we're putting dullards that cannot learn on the field.

Needing guys to know the complete offense instinctively doesn't even seem to be the KF norm. BB, Drew, Jake C, Ricky, Jake R, CJ Beathard (technically the last game of the year), and Nate all started in their second season. Hence my belief that this is just part of giving Spencer and Alex a graceful exit.​
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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You can mince words but you saying it wasn’t a true open competition means that at the very least you don’t think Kirk wasn’t being entirely honest, ergo, he lied.
Kirk was deftly engaged in politesse. His statement, literally taken means nothing more than there is competition for the position. The reader is free to interpret "open" anyway they want. Could mean wide open with no leader or a close competition with no leader known. Or it could mean nothing more than a technical starter has just not been named, although there may be a clear leader.

It seems clear but really it is not. KF is good at keeping things vague.
 

sober_teacher

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Kirk was deftly engaged in politesse. His statement, literally taken means nothing more than there is competition for the position. The reader is free to interpret "open" anyway they want. Could mean wide open with no leader or a close competition with no leader known. Or it could mean nothing more than a technical starter has just not been named, although there may be a clear leader.

It seems clear but really it is not. KF is good at keeping things vague.

Well, he flat out said it was an open competition in February so….
 
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I was a Drew Tate apologist going into Minnesota 2006. My brother and got into a huge shoving match after arguing about comments on Voice of the Hawkeyes. Everybody wanted a can’t miss Jake Christianson to start over Tate.

The same loudmouths said “Kirk was too loyal and should have went to the NFL.”
 
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jonesy5960

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Well, he flat out said it was an open competition in February so….
An open competition doesn't necessarily infer that there isn't a leader in Kirk's mind. Obviously the leader played the last game. It simply means that other players would have the opportunity to step up and assume that role if they showed sufficient improvement in Kirk's eyes. I think everyone just needs to recognize that Iowa simply doesn't have any high quality Qb's today that are ready to go and they haven't for the last few years. Blame it on recruiting or development, but Kirk isn't looking to lose games because of bad QB play. If they had a guy they would play him. Let's hope that Spencer really does improve because barring injury he'll be the starter all season and if he does go down it's unlikely that his replacement is an upgrade.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Well, he flat out said it was an open competition in February so….
Define "open"? The word is open to many understandings in these circumstances. Flat out saying it just invites the multiplicity of interpretations. You have read your understanding into the statement, which is exactly what the statement invites.

All that open necessarily means is not closed. Although, I see it in the more literal sense, last season's QB play sucked, and they already tried to give Spencer's job away. Every reason to believe there is a fully open look and Spencer's delicate psyche might need some time to get used to the idea that he is not the predetermined winner of that competition this season.​
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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An open competition doesn't necessarily infer that there isn't a leader in Kirk's mind. Obviously the leader played the last game.
Also, a completely reasonable understanding of what Kirk means by an "open" competition.

I think everyone just needs to recognize that Iowa simply doesn't have any high quality Qb's today that are ready to go and they haven't for the last few years.

This statement is true for maybe the last two years but the previous three Iowa started the guy 2nd in career yards, second in career TDs, first in TD/Int ration (by a mile), tied for most wins by a three year starter (with Ricky, more than Drew), and whose team won more games every season he started. In fact, didn't Nate throw for like 340 yards and 5 touchdowns in just his second start, come from behind win over the Clowns in Ames?

That sounds like a few cuts above "high quality" and "ready to play".​
 

jonesy5960

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Also, a completely reasonable understanding of what Kirk means by an "open" competition.



This statement is true for maybe the last two years but the previous three Iowa started the guy 2nd in career yards, second in career TDs, first in TD/Int ration (by a mile), tied for most wins by a three year starter (with Ricky, more than Drew), and whose team won more games every season he started. In fact, didn't Nate throw for like 340 yards and 5 touchdowns in just his second start, come from behind win over the Clowns in Ames?

That sounds like a few cuts above "high quality" and "ready to play".​
I was referring to the last 2 years.
 

sober_teacher

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Define "open"? The word is open to many understandings in these circumstances. Flat out saying it just invites the multiplicity of interpretations. You have read your understanding into the statement, which is exactly what the statement invites.

All that open necessarily means is not closed. Although, I see it in the more literal sense, last season's QB play sucked, and they already tried to give Spencer's job away. Every reason to believe there is a fully open look and Spencer's delicate psyche might need some time to get used to the idea that he is not the predetermined winner of that competition this season.​
I interpreted that to mean that Kirk knows Spencer’s play last year was not acceptable nor likely that the team success last year is repeatable unless play at the QB position improves. That means a) spencer takes a leap forward in his development-which is not impossible but unlikely imo, or b) either Alex or Joey take the reins from him. At the conclusion of spring ball, it sounded like Spencer had done well in practice, Alex was held back due to injuries and Joey improved, but not enough (yet) to take the job from spencer. For a variety of reasons, but chiefly injuries, the final spring practice did not allow any of the three to shine in front of fans.

however, to my knowledge, Kirk did not name an official starter, implying to me that the competition is ongoing.
 

David1979

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Petras looking good in a few clips from Manning camp. Maybe that will give him some confidence. FWIW, Petras made a huge jump in HS from Jr. to Sr. year.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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I interpreted that to mean that Kirk knows Spencer’s play last year was not acceptable nor likely that the team success last year is repeatable unless play at the QB position improves. That means a) spencer takes a leap forward in his development-which is not impossible but unlikely imo, or b) either Alex or Joey take the reins from him. At the conclusion of spring ball, it sounded like Spencer had done well in practice, Alex was held back due to injuries and Joey improved, but not enough (yet) to take the job from spencer. For a variety of reasons, but chiefly injuries, the final spring practice did not allow any of the three to shine in front of fans.

however, to my knowledge, Kirk did not name an official starter, implying to me that the competition is ongoing.
I agree. Although we both probably suffer some confirmation bias cuz the QB play cannot replicate last season, which is probably as close to unanimous as an opinion gets around here. I am told by various sources of varying credibility that the QB situation has come up in some high donor meetings. Unlike ours, Kirk does hear those voices.
 

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