and if you are really old you, the top 4 weights were 155-167-185-275.
Should NCAA install a 220 Weight Class?
- Thread starter Another_One_Bites_The_Dust
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How PC of you. Makes Gilman's mistake with the Japanese look relatively tame by comparison!
http://www.udprogram.com/support-1-72-3-1-1-2-2-3-2-1/
When I was in HS it was 71, 89, 215 and 275(Jr.)/285(Sr.). Most schools we wrestled had either a good 215, or a good Hwt. Very few had a state qualifier threat at both weights.
I am shocked that more people are saying "Yes" in this poll. Adding a weight is a bad idea, and doing it at 220 is laughable. If you were going to 11 weights, reshuffling 125-165 and adding an extra weight there would be most entertaining, and best for the sport.
I am shocked that more people are saying "Yes" in this poll. Adding a weight is a bad idea, and doing it at 220 is laughable. If you were going to 11 weights, reshuffling 125-165 and adding an extra weight there would be most entertaining, and best for the sport.
Sorry I offended you. I suppose you are against a traveling midget baseball league? 8 team tournaments every weekend in a different city. Play on softball fields with all day festival entertainment.
I liked this, then thought about it some more and remembered the most boring matches are typically 197 and 285. Adding another weight in this range while eliminating one where more action and better scrambling takes place doesn't interest me. If we can't get to 11 then I'd say leave it as is.
I can understand the arguments for yes but sometimes it seems like we try to outsmart ourselves. Current system of weights has produced champs, medals, and depth - and continues leading up to next olympics in the top 3 weights - (Taylor & Cox), (Snyder, Varner), (Gwiz, Coon, streeblerson)
I wouldn’t fix what not broken...
I wouldn’t fix what not broken...
What about just moving 197 to 210ish? Opens the door for the light heavies to cut a little, and maybe gives the guys who are currently cutting to get to 97 more gas?
I'll totally cede this point to people who know what they are talking about (not me)
I'll totally cede this point to people who know what they are talking about (not me)
Sure, that helps some guys. It hurts the guys that are a little too big to make 184 and don't have to cut much at 197.
The US team is the defending World Champion right now. What are the proponents of the weight class changes hoping to accomplish?
Btw, 11 weight classes makes sense; as does either 13 or 15 weight classes in high school.
Only the wrestling community would consistently decide to have an even number of weight classes in an event where winning the most weight classes is the first tie-breaker!
I never played football. I wrestled and played hockey.
I had 3 concussions before I turned 18. Wrestled through one that no sane person ever should have. The third concussion resulted in an overnight hospital stay. Had to make weight 4 days later. Ahh, the 90s.
Funny, I let my niece and nephews play every sport (sis and bro in law let me advise on the kids’ sports). I put in strict age restrictions on wrestling (can’t start until they are 12. Non negotiable) specifically because I think the risk of injury (plus weight management for growing bodies) is bad.
All sports carry risk. Ours isn’t the safest either.
The only concussion my son ever got was wrestling -- in practice. But it does seem statistically football is the greater risk.
I do question the age requirement on football -- I hear a lot of parents talk about that. My son REALLY wanted to play football in 3rd grade, but since flag was still available at that grade we only let him do that. Then we caved in fourth grade. What I noticed, though, is that there isn't much hard hitting going on at that age. The lesser athletes haven't been weeded out, and even some of the good athletes are still a little afraid of contact. So it was a bunch of pushing and arm tackling. It was when they started hitting puberty that it became a violent sport; with high impact collisions.
So imo football is actually safer for little kids than for older.
My screen name represents my side of this argument, I have stated in previous threads that there should be a 220lbs class in college. I also think we should try and mimic the international Weights closer, some of you are looking at this the wrong way. Its not about watering down 285 its more about getting more action in the uppers from the tweeners. 285 will always have some very big less athletic guys but there are the big athletic Gwiz and Coon types that will show up every season also. eliminating a lower weight and just adding a weight class will not work because of scholarships BS. Im not sure how it could work but having a class somewhere near 97kg in College would ensure we have a good crop of guys to fill 97kg after Snyder. With my expertise in math equivalencies I came up with weight classes like this 127,135,143,151,160,171,183,195,215,275 what say you
Still seems too weighted towards the upper weights considering demographics. You would have 40% of the weight classes going to about 20% of athletic college aged males. Worse, because bigger kids prefer football in high school the percentage of skilled wrestlers in those four weight classes represent maybe 5% to 10% of the good wrestlers. So you would have 10% of the top wrestlers taking four spots, with the other 90% of the top wrestlers taking the other six spots.
It just makes no sense. I at least understand your motivation -- to try to make us more competitive at the International level. But I don't even see how that accomplishes that goal. Are we going to add weight classes where there aren't many good wrestlers in an attempt to draw more into the sport? What does that do to the middle weight kids?
I think many miss the true importance of any change. It should be done for the benefit of College Wrestling as a WHOLE. Aligning with International Wrestling helps maybe 2% of all wrestlers. Then factor in what the percentage is that it actually hurts.
As Art has articulated, the weights need to be laid out to best fit the weight range of most wrestlers. High School already has a 220 weight class, that has shown to be very thin. Do we really think that more High Schoolers will wrestle if there is a NCAA weight closer to that range? Even if that happens, do we expect more College wrestlers as a by product of that?
Honestly, for those of you that support it, tell me how it actually helps wrestling as a whole!
As Art has articulated, the weights need to be laid out to best fit the weight range of most wrestlers. High School already has a 220 weight class, that has shown to be very thin. Do we really think that more High Schoolers will wrestle if there is a NCAA weight closer to that range? Even if that happens, do we expect more College wrestlers as a by product of that?
Honestly, for those of you that support it, tell me how it actually helps wrestling as a whole!
Football players Are far more likely to be concussed. I have been on the field and the Mat its not close.
I grew up playing tackle football no pads in the backyard through middle school. this is spot on. the worst any of us ever got was a bloody nose.
Oh for sure. I am saying though that parents worried about injury probably aren't rushing to sign kids up for a combat sport. I got concussions too. Maybe I am concussion prone and football would have been catastrophic? Who knows? But I do know I got concussions from sports that weren't football and that was where I was going. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Football is not a contact sport it’s a collision sport everyone envolved needs to understand that, and it’s what you sign up for. Wrestling is a contact sport there are many many injuries everyone knows this but concussions are low on the list.
I recall no upper limit. It was 185 and then Unlimited. There was 1 huge fat kid in Sibley that weighed over 3bills. His SR season the rules changed to make the top weight class 230 (i think). Anyway ... he actually cut down to 230.
Gap between 197 and 285 is just too large for grown adults. Reason some matches are "boring' is that weight difference. Maybe think about wrestlers at 197 that would put on some weight to wrestle 220, and those borderline 285's that would cut down. It's a new breed of westling in college.
Those were some exciting HWT matches back in the day between Spud K, and Huss vs that family from Sibley.
I believe I saw a study that says wrestling ranks third for concussions, behind football and soccer.
Dagels - I think Spud liked to mock him and dance around like a butterfly and sting like a bee. I was sure that fat kid would pass out or worse
Or worse, fall on top of Kameise and pin him!
And 37% believe stats which disprove the need....
Well, you're getting into statistical territory, which is probably what this whole question calls for. Are there, statistically, enough athletes that could go into a 220 class? I believe 149-165 are the "mean" weights. So the question becomes how broad a spectrum--from lighter to heavier--should the sport cover to provide spots for the best athletes. More demographics are needed, certainly. I have also wondered if a 118 class should be brought back, just to cover those excellent H.S. 106 and 113 athletes that will never be big enough to be competitive at 125.
Bottom line, one or two more weights would be more matches per meet. My simple take is that more matches would be better for wrestling.
Hi El Dub ... I know some of their family - FWIW - Scott passed away about 12 years ago, and Tim before that. Both young men in their mid/low 40's.
KS may have modified, as I can remember a HWT who had to cut. the same year we had a 98 who would weigh in holding his duffle bag full of donut and fruit pie wrappers, just the wrappers. He ate the donuts and fruit pies on the way to weigh in.
Football, hockey, boxing, and MMA have unique concussion issues because of the repeated head trauma. The NHL is doing a good job of cleaning up the sport. The others - not so much. IMO, wrestling concussions tend to be isolated incidents and are monitored well. In 1997 McIlravy's concussion(s) resulted in him sitting for 7 or 8 weeks I believe. I think Iowa was way ahead of the game on that.
Definitely need another class, Snyder and his weight range should not be wrestling people 80 lbs heavier.
Ridiculous.
That's like Kemdog wrestling Snyder, give me a break.
Ahhh....finally, some real demographics! Bravo, sir!
I really can't believe the percentage of people who voted yes. I've been around a lot of high school football players and push them to wrestle in the winter to help football. If they are an athletic 220 pounder, I always follow it up with, "and heck, you'll have a shot to place this year or next year at state." I've been right quite a few times too. Could you imagine seeing an athletic 145 pound athlete who's never wrestled and just assuming they could place at 145 in a year or two?
And yet, somehow a bunch of talented, energetic 220 pound wrestlers are going to appear in college out of thin air! For all of those votes (which also astounds me) I haven't seen any reasoning provided about how this would be good for college wrestling. At how those weight classes are somehow going to have talented wrestlers.
I’m all for a 220 lb weight class as long as it’s the new heavy weight.
I really do believe 285 is absurd. HWT should be no more than 240/250. What percentage of kids are so big they can't make 250? You have either be morbidly obese, or naturally huge and working your butt off to get bigger than 250.
Do we really need to make sure there is a spot for the upper .01% of the population? We would gain more good wrestlers by adding 115 lbs; and I certainly wouldn't go for that.
At first I too voted for 220. After reading the comments I would change my vote to no
FWIW, there were 11 weight classes from 1966-1969.
The top big athletes play football. Some may wrestle for conditioning, and many often have success due to being athletic in a thin weight class filled with a lot of less athletic, pudgy HS kids. The truth hurts, but that's the way it is, especially for small school HS wrestling - we'll take anybody on the team that can fill a weight class, especially in the upper weights, even just to get some forfeits along the way in dual meets. HS Wrestling has very few hard core kids at upper weights compared to the light/middle weights. It makes very little sense to add 220 in college when you look at demographics. You can look at a lot of statistics that show the same message. Here's another example to show you the quantity of serious wrestlers at the various weights:
2018 Northern Plains Junior Freestyle:
WT Wrestlers
100 2
106 2
113 10
120 12
126 18
132 21
138 20
145 25
152 19
160 27
170 12
182 19
195 8
220 8
285 7
The interest isn't there. The three upper weights 195-220-285 have fewer wrestlers combined than the 145 or 160 weights individually. Another good example would be to look at the Fargo weight classes. The light/middle weight classes are always much bigger than the upper weights.
And I would bet the 195 bracket had some guys who could have went 182 but saw an easier path to fargo.
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