Since kneeling is a gesture of submission, what is wrong with kneeling/submitting to the flag during the playing of the national anthem?
Show Respect For The Flag By Kneeling
- Thread starter blackbrd12
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A great WW2 military hero named Cotton Hill got his shins blown off by the Japanese so he can no longer kneel. That is why we stand.
What I’d really like to see is our players and coaches standing with arms locked, alternating white players with non-white players and mixing in the coaches, in a show of unity. I think that would be a cool bit of symbolism.
I think kneeling would be interpreted in multiple unintended ways and would ultimately be a divisive gesture even if not intended to be.
I think kneeling would be interpreted in multiple unintended ways and would ultimately be a divisive gesture even if not intended to be.
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I agree that would be cool, but I really don't understand the controversy over kneeling. A member of the military asked Kaepernick to do it as a sign of respect. The only reason there is a lot of butthurt about this is because Trump made it a big deal.
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anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
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I have never been personally in favor of kneeling...but I did recognize it as someone’s first amendment right.
And at this point I hope the hawks do it all season just to watch you snowflakes freak out.
And at this point I hope the hawks do it all season just to watch you snowflakes freak out.
Army Veteran purple heart recipient endorses peaceful protest including this if individuals deem this as what they need to do.
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anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
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Kneeling for the anthem is absolutely, 100% an option for any American as a legitimate exercise of our First Amendment right to freedom of speech. Those who don't think it's appropriate also have the right to think that and to stand if they wish. What's so hard to understand?
Those who kneel--and I hope the Hawkeyes all kneel every game until we have elected a new president--are at least as patriotic and respectful as those who stand.
Freedom means we have the right to do what we think is best. We will never all agree on that and, again, that's what freedom means--the right to express an opinion in any way you wish as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. It may offend others, but that has nothing to do with it.
I have not stood for the National Anthem or flown the flag since the last presidential election. And I won't do either again until we have elected a new president. That's my right. You have the right to do exactly the opposite.
Those who kneel--and I hope the Hawkeyes all kneel every game until we have elected a new president--are at least as patriotic and respectful as those who stand.
Freedom means we have the right to do what we think is best. We will never all agree on that and, again, that's what freedom means--the right to express an opinion in any way you wish as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. It may offend others, but that has nothing to do with it.
I have not stood for the National Anthem or flown the flag since the last presidential election. And I won't do either again until we have elected a new president. That's my right. You have the right to do exactly the opposite.
Just because one veteran didn’t mind it doesn’t mean other don’t. Can’t speak for a whole group of people as just one.
And if you read the whole quote from the nate Boyer about kneeling its even better I think. Something along the lines of ‘I respect that you can’t stand right now for the flag so while you can’t I will until you can. ’ Or something to that effect.
This one is difficult because I’m more comfortable about kneeling now with players or fans when the message is articulated clearly. I for one was not in favor of protesting the flag or country or anti-law enforcement as a whole. Kap totally lost me with the pigs socks as painting all law enforcement with a broad brush is totally unfair. Change and rooting out bad officers - yes.
What I don’t know and this is going to have to come from the player leadership is do they prefer the whole team kneel or do the black players want to kneel themselves to better symbolize their message? If everyone is doing it together does that wash out their message or enhance it? If some players are not kneeling will that create animosity towards them or team divisiveness then? You can see exactly why KF has been fretting this and then asking for the entire team to do it if they decide to do so.
What I don’t know and this is going to have to come from the player leadership is do they prefer the whole team kneel or do the black players want to kneel themselves to better symbolize their message? If everyone is doing it together does that wash out their message or enhance it? If some players are not kneeling will that create animosity towards them or team divisiveness then? You can see exactly why KF has been fretting this and then asking for the entire team to do it if they decide to do so.
If the entire Hawkeye team knells, I'll only see it once because I'll never come back and trust me...I won't be alone. I figure I spend $500.00 per weekend. I'll protest that way. Fire away!!
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anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
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I'm fine with kneeling myself, though I will always stand. I had teammates that did it and I understand and support the message they tried to send.
However, it's not as simple as saying "well a veteran said it's okay" (Boyer himself actually said that he'd prefer Kaepernick stand, but kneeling was a respectful way to send his message, and Boyer does not speak for all service members, as I know several current and former service members who vehemently disagree with kneeling) or "they're not disrespecting the flag or the anthem". Those are the intended messages, but there are such a thing as unintentional messages. Furthermore, some gestures mean different things to different people. Some see the American flag as just a piece of cloth, others see it as a symbol of their home.
You're not gonna convince everyone that it's okay. And that's okay.
And finally, Colin Kaepernick was probably not the right person to try and send that message. Even if he had a point, he's since proven himself to be a hypocrite and an asshole (and wasn't necessarily a great guy beforehand).
However, it's not as simple as saying "well a veteran said it's okay" (Boyer himself actually said that he'd prefer Kaepernick stand, but kneeling was a respectful way to send his message, and Boyer does not speak for all service members, as I know several current and former service members who vehemently disagree with kneeling) or "they're not disrespecting the flag or the anthem". Those are the intended messages, but there are such a thing as unintentional messages. Furthermore, some gestures mean different things to different people. Some see the American flag as just a piece of cloth, others see it as a symbol of their home.
You're not gonna convince everyone that it's okay. And that's okay.
And finally, Colin Kaepernick was probably not the right person to try and send that message. Even if he had a point, he's since proven himself to be a hypocrite and an asshole (and wasn't necessarily a great guy beforehand).
My concern precisely -- while the intent may be reasonable, the interpretation will vary and many would probably be offended. I just don't see the point in taking a posture that's likely to sew further discord. Hence, my proposal above about players and coaches locking arms in unity. Seems like a gesture that would communicate that the matter is being taken seriously and that there's a unified effort to improve.
I really don't care. Maybe the entire team could alternate what they do each game......stand one, kneel the next. Sort of a gesture of compromise that shows that each side is willing to understand and support the other.
Okay I get you don’t like the current president. Your right as you say. So explain in grave detail how
1) a loser of a cop taking the life of another loser in life (5 convictions over 10 years in jail, high on drug at the time of his murder) is the Presidents fault?
2) What Is simpleton Joe and the democratic higher ups. Who ALL have been elected officials for 30 years mind you. Going to do now that they couldn’t/refused to do under the 8 years of Obama? Remember now he ran promising the people of color real change?
I’ll hang up read your detailed answers.
I can get behind this too. There comes a point though where I am sick and tired of race issues real or perceived. Can we do something to put this to bed by partnering and making some positive changes that makes us all embrace life in America. No more of this race or that race, this group or that group, this political party or that one. One unified country of Americans that is the model for the world. Everyone needs to give a little though to build a better future. If it takes some peaceful and respectful protesting to get change action started then so be it.
So the people on the field kneel. How will that work for fans in the stands? Being a (retired) member of the USAF, I will always stand at attention, remove my hat and remain that way while our National Anthem is played. I don’t have the greatest singing voice, but I will sing along.
What should horrify Americans is not Kaepernick’s choice to remain seated during the national anthem, but that nearly 50 years after Ali was banned from boxing for his stance and Tommie Smith and John Carlos’s raised fists caused public ostracization and numerous death threats, we still need to call attention to the same racial inequities. Failure to fix this problem is what’s really un-American here.
Black Athletes are not just objects to entertain you...they are have the right to express their views on Social problems.
My question on devaluing the Flag that so many shirt-sleeve "patriots" seem to have is why is it perfectly ok for some low-class whites to strap on an AK-47 and then sport the American Flag as a vest or hat or some other disgusting garment they sewed together? ..then that 300-lb patriot shows his might by screaming at a 90-lb nurse.
It's only been fairly recently that players even had to be out there standing at attention to National Anthems....really since the Pentagon decided it needed to spend billions of dollars on such things as Fly-overs and all the troops on sidelines...and of course TV commercials etc etc to Promote its need to be forever at War (banking, insurance make mints off it) Fans currently think they did their duty by saying thank-you for your service and then forget about what's actually going on in all the place overseas that our Military has stagnated at for decades (while only a small % of low-income people ever serve...so most don't ever think about it) and required troops to be forever making sacrifices and draining our Country so that it's on near collapse because of debt. While we do that, China has taken it's huge population from dire-poverty to middle-class levels in last 30 years...they use their resources to improve their infrastructure.
The obvious solution to all this is bring back Industry to the country. (from Asia, India and others)..spend on building and fixing our Infrastructures (creating decent jobs)....instead of fat, excessive military Industries budgets of death....invest in Industries of life for a change (that's what really made this country great once)...and that is what will fix the countries problems.
I know return you to your local suspects as usual finger-pointing.
Black Athletes are not just objects to entertain you...they are have the right to express their views on Social problems.
My question on devaluing the Flag that so many shirt-sleeve "patriots" seem to have is why is it perfectly ok for some low-class whites to strap on an AK-47 and then sport the American Flag as a vest or hat or some other disgusting garment they sewed together? ..then that 300-lb patriot shows his might by screaming at a 90-lb nurse.
It's only been fairly recently that players even had to be out there standing at attention to National Anthems....really since the Pentagon decided it needed to spend billions of dollars on such things as Fly-overs and all the troops on sidelines...and of course TV commercials etc etc to Promote its need to be forever at War (banking, insurance make mints off it) Fans currently think they did their duty by saying thank-you for your service and then forget about what's actually going on in all the place overseas that our Military has stagnated at for decades (while only a small % of low-income people ever serve...so most don't ever think about it) and required troops to be forever making sacrifices and draining our Country so that it's on near collapse because of debt. While we do that, China has taken it's huge population from dire-poverty to middle-class levels in last 30 years...they use their resources to improve their infrastructure.
The obvious solution to all this is bring back Industry to the country. (from Asia, India and others)..spend on building and fixing our Infrastructures (creating decent jobs)....instead of fat, excessive military Industries budgets of death....invest in Industries of life for a change (that's what really made this country great once)...and that is what will fix the countries problems.
I know return you to your local suspects as usual finger-pointing.
WOW, you are wrong on almost every level so just let me say to you , MOVE TO CHINA! You will love it there. . We'll reduce our military while we follow your advice. We git it. You hate America. You hate white people and you hate the military. If you think that there has not been racial progress since 1968, you are incomprehensibly wrong. You couldn't make up a bigger lie. I remember 1968 and evidently you don't. And, name those 300 lb.white guys who have AK 47's. Tell me where anyone can even buy an AK 47.
If the team chooses to kneel and they state their reason for kneeling, there is no room for it to be misinterpreted. If it is interpreted in an unintended way they those individuals are doing so purposefully.
If it's explained clearly in advance and the explanation is one that promotes unity and racial harmony as well as respect for the flag and those who have sacrificed for it, seems fair enough. IMO, it's all about the spirit of the gesture more than the actual posture, itself.
I have come a long way in this kneeling issue in a week or so. I was completely against it.When the Anthem is playing I am focusing on the men and women who have given the ultimate sacrifice for our country.When someone is kneeling during the Anthem they are putting the focus on themselves which is what they want correct!They have an issue they want noticed.My opinion is this.I find it disrespectful to protest during the Anthem. But then again I am being a hypocrite because I inturn am making it about me and my feelings.So that being said I am going to try to be a little more open minded on things.Oh and by the way I will never waver on being a conservative and a man of faith Never!!!!
