SIAP: How much waste in the F-35 $2 trillion arms program that is extended until 2088?

[uihawk82]

Why the hello dont we use the F14 through F16 and the F22 (which is supposed to be a great stealth jet) designs and components and add whatever the new fancy stuff going into the F-35.

We have 4 proven, outstanding jet fighters that have all beat their competition that we know of. Trump/Musk are efficiency waste and fraud idiots for not looking at this as
the #1 program to cut or trim.

This $2 trillion is for cost and delivery of all the planes in the lifetime of the program but it could be way less by modifying current fighters.

The F-35 fighter will now cost more than $2 trillion

The eye-popping price tag has not fixed the maintenance issues plaguing the program, a government watchdog says

responsiblestatecraft.org

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Why invest so much in a human centric jet either way? How many drones could we buy for that money. Far less risk, ability to innovate much faster because you don’t need to worry about the pilot, etc.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Alot.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Why invest so much in a human centric jet either way? How many drones could we buy for that money. Far less risk, ability to innovate much faster because you don’t need to worry about the pilot, etc.

This is the way. A dude with a 500 dollar drone and a 200 dollar bomb could **** up a building.

But then some asshat will make a 200 dollar signal jammer and we will be back to good old 62 grains of freedom.


I was thinking about this however.


What defense does the "iron dome" offer against drones? Would they sneak through?

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

This is the way. A dude with a 500 dollar drone and a 200 dollar bomb could **** up a building.




I was thinking aboit this however.


What defense does the "iron dome" offer against drones? Would they sneak through?

Israel+US seem to have easily handled many Iranian/Houthi drones + missiles effectively in the most recent nastiness.

But once they start making those things stealthy…no idea.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Why the hello dont we use the F14 through F16 and the F22 (which is supposed to be a great stealth jet) designs and components and add whatever the new fancy stuff going into the F-35.

We have 4 proven, outstanding jet fighters that have all beat their competition that we know of. Trump/Musk are efficiency waste and fraud idiots for not looking at this as
the #1 program to cut or trim.

Hmmm…well, you can’t really “add” stealth, which is critical against modern air defenses, to planes that weren’t designed for it originally. And, you might have some issues with the F-14, since we destroyed all of them after they were retired in 2006. The bottom line is that to establish control of an enemy airspace, stealth is critical. What the future holds is this regard is highly debatable.

 

[uihawk82]

Hmmm…well, you can’t really “add” stealth, which is critical against modern air defenses, to planes that weren’t designed for it originally. And, you might have some issues with the F-14, since we destroyed all of them after they were retired in 2006. The bottom line is that to establish control of an enemy airspace, stealth is critical. What the future holds is this regard is highly debatable.

We may have destroyed all the F-14s but its flight dynamics were already proven and just make new ones with stealthy tech that tests the current design.

The F-22 is said to be very very good, very stealthy and a great fighter. Is it?

 

[uihawk82]

Why invest so much in a human centric jet either way? How many drones could we buy for that money. Far less risk, ability to innovate much faster because you don’t need to worry about the pilot, etc.

Drones are great but can they intercepts other fighters moving at Mach 3 let's say?

The fighters are as much for defense against other fighters as they are for offense in dropping mutitions, strafing, and covering troops and operations like the navy.

I may be a liberal Dem but I have always been for a great defensive military just because of what I call the Rabid Dog syndrome. Putin is like a rabid dog in the global or at least Euro-Asian sphere and rabid dogs bite and infect the other dogs.

You have to either totally kennel the rabid dog or put it down if it attacks.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

We may have destroyed all the F-14s but its flight dynamics were already proven and just make new ones with stealthy tech that tests the current design.

The F-22 is said to be very very good, very stealthy and a great fighter. Is it?

A stealthy, modernized version of the Tomcat was proposed prior to its retirement. It was basically a brand new airframe, which would have made it very expensive. Remember, stealth is in almost every aspect of a plane like the F-22 or F-35. You can’t just take a 4th gen plane and “stealth it up” without essentially making a new plane.

Yes, the Raptor is the world’s best fighter plane. It’s years ahead of where the Chinese or Russians currently are with their stealth designs.

 

[sober_teacher]

This is the way. A dude with a 500 dollar drone and a 200 dollar bomb could **** up a building.

But then some asshat will make a 200 dollar signal jammer and we will be back to good old 62 grains of freedom.


I was thinking about this however.


What defense does the "iron dome" offer against drones? Would they sneak through?

Just a guess, but I’d imaging they’re at least partly effective against drones.. probably depends a lot on factors like the size of the drone in question for example.

Maybe some of the biggest arguments in favor of manned fighter jets/bombers remain 1) payload, 2) decreased vulnerability to jamming and 3) range/speed.

This is also why I get annoyed whenever the debate comes up regarding seemingly constantly having to up military spending or else get tagged as not supporting the troops. I’d love a full, line by line discussion of every single project in the defense budget with actual military members. How much of what is in there is stuff that’s been rendered out of date, particularly in light of what we’ve seen in the Ukraine war, how much isn’t even wanted anymore but no one wants to say so, and so on.

 

[sober_teacher]

A stealthy, modernized version of the Tomcat was proposed prior to its retirement. It was basically a brand new airframe, which would have made it very expensive. Remember, stealth is in almost every aspect of a plane like the F-22 or F-35. You can’t just take a 4th gen plane and “stealth it up” without essentially making a new plane.

Yes, the Raptor is the world’s best fighter plane. It’s years ahead of where the Chinese or Russians currently are with their stealth designs.

Never understood the nickname of raptor for a fighter plane…they can’t fly!🤪

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Just a guess, but I’d imaging they’re at least partly effective against drones.. probably depends a lot on factors like the size of the drone in question for example.

The Iron Dome is vulnerable to drone attacks, but it’s not defenseless. The thing about armed drones is that while small and hard to defeat, they don’t pack much of a punch vs. something like a missile or rocket.

 

[sober_teacher]

The Iron Dome is vulnerable to drone attacks, but it’s not defenseless. The thing about armed drones is that while small and hard to defeat, they don’t pack much of a punch vs. something like a missile or rocket.

About what I thought, thanks.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Drones are great but can they intercepts other fighters moving at Mach 3 let's say?

The fighters are as much for defense against other fighters as they are for offense in dropping mutitions, strafing, and covering troops and operations like the navy.

I may be a liberal Dem but I have always been for a great defensive military just because of what I call the Rabid Dog syndrome. Putin is like a rabid dog in the global or at least Euro-Asian sphere and rabid dogs bite and infect the other dogs.

You have to either totally kennel the rabid dog or put it down if it attacks.

I honestly don’t know, I’m way out of my depth in this. I will say that I’m pretty sure I read we have the technology to do things at g forces that would kill a human. So my wild ass guess would be yes we could design a drones that would outperform a human piloted vehicle.

Edit: the one downside is jamming as another poster brought up. Wonder if we have solved for that?

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

Drones are great but can they intercepts other fighters moving at Mach 3 let's say?

The fighters are as much for defense against other fighters as they are for offense in dropping mutitions, strafing, and covering troops and operations like the navy.

I may be a liberal Dem but I have always been for a great defensive military just because of what I call the Rabid Dog syndrome. Putin is like a rabid dog in the global or at least Euro-Asian sphere and rabid dogs bite and infect the other dogs.

You have to either totally kennel the rabid dog or put it down if it attacks.

Fair points.