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So much for the “Nobody wants to take down Mount Rushmore” defense

That's why Auschwitz is still standing today. Sometimes people need physical buildings, statues and monuments to be reminded of evil and greatness.

Agree to a point. Auschwitz is a huge thing and is not comparable to every local Confederate general statue on a horse on Main St. in the Deep South. I think we can look at statues and think about what they mean and what they stand for and make decisions. Again, just because a group calls for Mt. Rushmore to go away doesn't mean it's gone tomorrow. 25 people with a bunch of rope and a crowbar aren't going to be able to pull that down.....but when we look at some of these local statues, what's the lesson to learn?

With Auschwitz, there's value in seeing the scale and scope of genocide. It's supposed to be shocking and it's basically a museum focused on the atrocities committed there. What's the goal of a Confederate general statue? Is that how we learn that racism is bad?
 
Can't change the past but one can learn from it and then move forward.

No one thinks tearing down a hunk of rock will “change the past.” It certainly won’t rub the past in the people who got the shaft’s faces, though. We can still learn about it in classrooms, or between shows about truckers on the History Channel.
 
Funny you should say that. If we were to give the land back, who should we give it to? The Lakota Sioux? They violently took it from the Cheyenne in 1776. Then it got taken from the Sioux.

So, who should get it? And should we start taking down statues of Sioux heroes who killed helpless Native Americans for land?
Yep, Native Americans were “stealing“ the land from each other long before white people entered the picture. Certain tribes were ruthless to say the least
 
What message is this getting across again? The first person to discover something has dibs on it forever? I guess we should go back on the evolutionary timeline and the oldest living species should take over the world and the rest of living thing perish away or support the algae at the bottom of the ocean, after all the algae was here on this planet first.
 
No one thinks tearing down a hunk of rock will “change the past.” It certainly won’t rub the past in the people who got the shaft’s faces, though. We can still learn about it in classrooms, or between shows about truckers on the History Channel.

So...how the fvck did Abraham Lincoln give all of the people wanting his statue down “the shaft”? Not Mount Rushmore. His statues.
 
What message is this getting across again? The first person to discover something has dibs on it forever? I guess we should go back on the evolutionary timeline and the oldest living species should take over the world and the rest of living thing perish away or support the algae at the bottom of the ocean, after all the algae was here on this planet first.

@FAUlty Gator is mad that he didn’t come up with this ludicrous idea first.
 
Anyone who can trace their ancestory back to when an evolutionary split happened with cavemen and hunger/gatherers should really be the ones who rule the world.
 
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Probably more info there than in political soundbites and on bumper stickers, which is apparently where most Americans learn about history. “The civil war was about states’ rights!”


No. The Civil War was about slavery. Abraham Lincoln ended it. BLM wants his statue removed. How fvcking dumb do you have to be to support that nonsense?
 
No one thinks tearing down a hunk of rock will “change the past.” It certainly won’t rub the past in the people who got the shaft’s faces, though. We can still learn about it in classrooms, or between shows about truckers on the History Channel.

I am guessing SD wants to keep that rev coming in.
 

You can’t recognize your own dumb point that statues are “rubbing it in the faces of people who got the shaft”. There are dumb fvcks that want the guy who freed the slaves to not be honored with a simple statue. And you can’t even call them dumb fvcks. Instead you make up all kinds of crazy nonsense to avoid calling said dumb fvcks out.
 
BLM wants his statue removed.

That’s the position the entire group (which has no central leadership, mind you) has taken? I’m going to need to see a link.

I would consider myself a participant in BLM and don’t think Abe Lincoln’s statues need to come down. I’m willing to listen to someone’s gripes though.
 
That’s the position the entire group (which has no central leadership, mind you) has taken? I’m going to need to see a link.

I would consider myself a participant in BLM and don’t think Abe Lincoln’s statues need to come down. I’m willing to listen to someone’s gripes though.

Is it fair to put the ideals we hold today on someone from 200 years ago? I am not so sure it is.
 

Anyone that is for this are a bunch of idiots.

It is part of our story as a nation and a national treasure. Kick rocks commie

Would no one sane wants to take down Mt. Rushmore be accurate?


Dude...you’re defending the desires of idiots who want to tear down the memory of the man who freed the slaves. Quit acting like MLK would be a leap for you to defend. But that’s the point. No way in hell you would use your same LOGIC for that. You’d argue 100% in the other direction. Making your “You can still learn about Lincoln” argument sooooo goddamned stupid.



If you are a person who wants to tear down Mt Rushmore I suggest you might be better served evaluating how you got to the point you are in life.

I was gonna say assholes but idiots works for me.

shhh............you'll be sent to the gulag for wrongthink!!!!

Shame so many here want to continue to piss on a people America committed genocide against, over a stupid carving in a shithole state. But that’s typical of America’s issues.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...ls-for-removal-of-mount-rushmore-before-trump
 
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No, the comparison here is America’s treatment of American Indians to the definition of a genocide, which it absolutely was. And it’s not just me that says it, but nearly every mainstream historian, including those of the Holocaust:

https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/

We have cities and skyscrapers that now inhabit once native lands, shall we tear the cities down bc they are also a reminder of that genocidal past?

After we tear everything down what do we do next?
 
We have cities and skyscrapers that now inhabit once native lands, shall we tear the cities down bc they are also a reminder of that genocidal past?

After we tear everything down what do we do next?

Nope. The Lakota have hated the placement of Mt. Rushmore since day one. It’s a sacred mountain. No one will be coming for America’s skyscrapers. You can stop clutching your pearls.
 
Nope. The Lakota have hated the placement of Mt. Rushmore since day one. It’s a sacred mountain. No one will be coming for America’s skyscrapers. You can stop clutching your pearls.

It is too late, damage is done, those faces are carved in so your can't uncarve them...shall we tear the whole mountain down? Also pushing this sort of stuff is how we get presidents like Trump, why are you playing the side that makes his reelection more likely?
 
It is too late, damage is done, those faces are carved in so your can't uncarve them...shall we tear the whole mountain down? Also pushing this sort of stuff is how we get presidents like Trump, why are you playing the side that makes his reelection more likely?

Tear the whole mountain down? :rolleyes: Are you incapable of an argument without hyperbole? I side with whatever the Lakota tribe has been wanting for decades. I want what’s right. Political optics are the least of my concerns. It’s a shame you don’t have morals beyond an election.
 
I want what’s right.
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Political optics are the least of my concerns.
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Shame so many here want to continue to piss on a people America committed genocide against, over a stupid carving in a shithole state. But that’s typical of America’s issues.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...ls-for-removal-of-mount-rushmore-before-trump
Genocide? I know the southern Democrat slaveholders were dipshits but I must have missed the part when they were mass exterminating blacks in death camps. Don't let your virtue signaling get in the way of actual facts.
 

Genocide? I know the southern Democrat slaveholders were dipshits but I must have missed the part when they were mass exterminating blacks in death camps. Don't let your virtue signaling get in the way of actual facts.

I know that I’m trying to reason with Beavis and Butt-Head here, but I won’t confuse you two by including a whole lot of fancy words this time: I’m talking about the American Indians, not slavery.
 
You weren't carrying textbooks in your backpack when you were in school, you were dragging around 5 ton hunks of granite with Hitler's likeness. That's the only way we can know about history. Otherwise, it's been erased.

Are you trying to tell me you need books to learn? Books are the only way to learn about history? I say burn all the evil books. Oral tradition is enough.
 
There’s room to Washington’s right for another face. Maybe two. Another face could probably go to Lincoln’s left also. What if instead of destroying the monument they add the face of a Native American? And/or prominent minorities from country’s past? I mean, they’ll have to remain peaceful up there. And they’ll certainly hear each other out. Maybe they’ll set an example for the rest of us.
 
There’s room to Washington’s right for another face. Maybe two. Another face could probably go to Lincoln’s left also. What if instead of destroying the monument they add the face of a Native American? And/or prominent minorities from country’s past? I mean, they’ll have to remain peaceful up there. And they’ll certainly hear each other out. Maybe they’ll set an example for the rest of us.

Good idea. Or even General Custer with a hatchet coming out of his head.
 
Nope. The Lakota have hated the placement of Mt. Rushmore since day one. It’s a sacred mountain. No one will be coming for America’s skyscrapers. You can stop clutching your pearls.

And guess who hated the placement of the Lakota Sioux? The Cheyenne who were slaughtered and had their land taken by the Sioux. It’s what humans and all of the animal kingdom do. Take over areas they want. You know...like CHAZ/ did. The group of idiots in Seattle you support.
 
I don’t like erasing our past. However, Mt. Rushmore is sort of like taking a shit in a house after you robbed it and killed everyone inside.
well, erase it, and slavery too. Then there will be nothing to base the protests on
 
Simple answer: Finish the damned Crazy Horse Memorial!

Thing would 10 times larger than MR and was commissioned by Chief Standing Bear. Listen to the original sculptor. He was extremely moved to pay a beautiful tribute, to say nothing of his arduous effort.

Of course there are some detractors. TOUGH. This was started many decades ago with pure intentions.

I believe most people, including the Lakota, would love to see it completed.
 
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And guess who hated the placement of the Lakota Sioux? The Cheyenne who were slaughtered and had their land taken by the Sioux. It’s what humans and all of the animal kingdom do. Take over areas they want. You know...like CHAZ/ did. The group of idiots in Seattle you support.

They hated each other so much, they fought the United States government together. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sioux_War_of_1876

BTW, where is your historical account of Cheyenne genocide of the Lakota coming from? I need a link because oddly I can’t find anything. Thanks for helping a brother out.
 
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