So..

[NYWRESTLER94]

do any of you gents have recollection of these stories? Some great and interesting stuff here

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1002732-mocco-recalls-iowa-suspension-avoiding-dq-at-2003-ncaas

 

[Azchief32]

After reading that...a lot of folks could learn a lesson from Bobby Douglas

 

[24 so far]

After reading that...a lot of folks could learn a lesson from Bobby Douglas

This has been hashed out here multiple times over the years. I was in Kansas City when this happened, it was a fiasco and a farce. Douglas did the only thing he could do, and continue to look in a mirror every day, IMO. His assistants however thought they had won the World Championship by possibly having the ability to DQ Mocco (i.e. a University of Iowa Wrestler) over an "illegal" move. An arm bar that went too far in the mind of the official. Ridiculous is the first word that comes to mind.

 

[DonHawkeye]

I would not minimize what Douglas did. I think there are A LOT of current D1 coaches that would not have done what he did.

 

[JohnBasedow]

Anybody know where to find a video of this? Can't seem to find it.

 

[GableEdge]

I was there as well - total class move by Douglas. Definitely in the vast minority of coaches that would have done that. Hopefully that sets the example for other coaches in the future when faced with a similar situation. When everyone in the arena knows who is better and something unintentional happens this is the right way to handle it. If intentional and different caliber wrestler with potential to compete and advance would be different.

 

[WildTurk]

Anybody know where to find a video of this? Can't seem to find it.

If you pay Flo enough cash they will re-create the action. Down to the blood sweat and tears. A mini Moccumentary of sorts

 

[el dub]

Did the ISU kid default out of the match because of injury due to arm bar?

 

[DonHawkeye]

Did the ISU kid default out of the match because of injury due to arm bar?

Yes, but it was an arm bar situation that I don't think I have ever seen been called anything but potentially dangerous. I am also guessing that the kid would have finished the match if it was anyone he thought he could actually beat with 3 arms.

 

[Azchief32]

Well...just think if Bobby had a burrito that morning that affected him and was on the toilet dropping a deuce (as I am similarly positioned) and wasn't there to put a stop to it.

 

[MSU158]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't downplay what Douglas did. He wasn't even cornering Coleman. It's one thing if he was there in the corner with a bird's eye view. But, to go out of his way to come across the mats to intercede is class personified. I definitely believe he is in a small minority of HC's that would have done that!

 

[el dub]

Well...just think if Bobby had a burrito that morning that affected him and was on the toilet dropping a deuce (as I am similarly positioned) and wasn't there to put a stop to it.

Think I'll pass on this mental imagery, thank you very much… (Unless of coures you are implying there was a tv in the bathroom that BD was monitoring, with action on the mat leading directly to movement in the can.)

 

[Azchief32]

Think I'll pass on this mental imagery, thank you very much… (Unless of coures you are implying there was a tv in the bathroom that BD was monitoring, with action on the mat leading directly to movement in the can.)

Just saying....everyone has food that is very tasty but puts them down for the count in the can. Mine is chorizo burritos. Luckily, Bobby didn't have his and could put a stop to the tomfoolery of his assistants. One has to wonder though...was Cael in the corner that day when the egregious arm bar happened or was he plugged in somewhere while the wrestling Gods uploaded all of their knowledge into him?

 

[WildTurk]

Yikes Chief.. TMI!

 

[el dub]

LOL Makes no sense bucking for a "Section 8," this late in the game, chief…..

 

[ping72]

I can't get that page to open. Is it down? Do I need a subscription?

 

[Azchief32]

LOL Makes no sense bucking for a "Section 8," this late in the game, chief…..

I have my retirement orders in hand...92 days. Not much they can do except add extra air freshener to the squadron latrines.

 

[wasdt21]

congrats chief hope you have a long retirement watching iowa wrestling win titles.

 

[Needanap]

I have my retirement orders in hand...92 days. Not much they can do except add extra air freshener to the squadron latrines.

Maybe one of the IT wizards can start a countdown clock and thread in your honor!!

 

[24 so far]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't downplay what Douglas did. He wasn't even cornering Coleman. It's one thing if he was there in the corner with a bird's eye view. But, to go out of his way to come across the mats to intercede is class personified. I definitely believe he is in a small minority of HC's that would have done that!

He had to "go out of his way", #1 because you couldn't have missed it, #2 because there was damn near a riot about to happen. Everybody in that arena knew the shit was about to hit the fan. The Coaches in both corners were about ready to kill each other. Any Coach with ONE OUNCE of integrity does what Douglas did. It was a no-brainer, but if you think otherwise, fine by me.

Sure, some Coach somewhere would have probably taken it, then been vilified by pretty much everybody who gives a crap about such things (integrity, morals, decency, ya know, stuff that used to be pretty common.................).

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

He had to "go out of his way", #1 because you couldn't have missed it, #2 because there was damn near a riot about to happen. Everybody in that arena knew the shit was about to hit the fan. The Coaches in both corners were about ready to kill each other. Any Coach with ONE OUNCE of integrity does what Douglas did. It was a no-brainer, but if you think otherwise, fine by me.

Sure, some Coach somewhere would have probably taken it, then been vilified by pretty much everybody who gives a crap about such things (integrity, morals, decency, ya know, stuff that used to be pretty common.................).

There are plenty guys out there that would have done the right thing with eyes on them in the corner but conveniently got lost if someone else could be the scape goat. If Douglas was not cornering the match it would have been really easy to let the guys in the corner make the call and arrive at the mat a little late to stop it. Noble act. True character.

 

[24 so far]

There are plenty guys out there that would have done the right thing with eyes on them in the corner but conveniently got lost if someone else could be the scape goat. If Douglas was not cornering the match it would have been really easy to let the guys in the corner make the call and arrive at the mat a little late to stop it. Noble act. True character.

That very well may be true. It is also sad as hell to think you have to "praise" someone, just for doing the right thing (regardless of flawed human beings being involved - it really isn't that hard - and it sure as hell wasn't hard in this case - this would hardly cause a blip on the overall "right thing" radar).

 

[crablegs1]

I'm curious why this was the right thing? Not disagreeing, but just wonder the reasoning.

Let's say this is the national finals and the roles are reversed. Scott Coleman applies an illegal arm bar and injures Mocco so that Mocco cannot continue. Would it be the right thing for the Iowa coaches to give the win to Coleman? I don't think so, so I'm not following the logic on this.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

I'm curious why this was the right thing? Not disagreeing, but just wonder the reasoning.

Let's say this is the national finals and the roles are reversed. Scott Coleman applies an illegal arm bar and injures Mocco so that Mocco cannot continue. Would it be the right thing for the Iowa coaches to give the win to Coleman? I don't think so, so I'm not following the logic on this.

My opinion on the matter doesn't change but I also don't have a bias on it

 

[ferentzin04]

I'm curious why this was the right thing? Not disagreeing, but just wonder the reasoning.

Let's say this is the national finals and the roles are reversed. Scott Coleman applies an illegal arm bar and injures Mocco so that Mocco cannot continue. Would it be the right thing for the Iowa coaches to give the win to Coleman? I don't think so, so I'm not following the logic on this.

Didn't Mocco say he didn't use an illegal arm bar though? Coleman did it to himself. That's how I took it. Mocco was freaking out because he thought he was going to get DQ'd when he didn't even do anything. Then Douglas steps in and basically says you aren't winning that way. Maybe I need to watch the interview again.

 

[crablegs1]

I've never met anyone that could apply an illegal arm bar to themselves.

 

[ferentzin04]

I've never met anyone that could apply an illegal arm bar to themselves.

Did you even watch the interview? Mocco said as he started to put in the arm bar Coleman dug his own hand into his own armpit and started to twist his arm up, all before Mocco starts running it around the head. Ref blows the whistle and calls the illegal arm bar. Chaos ensues.

Is that exactly what happened? I have no idea, I wasn't there. I don't even remember the match in question. However, if that is what happened and Douglas went out of his way to tell his own wrestler that he isn't going to win that way, then good for Bobby Douglas.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Is there actually an illegal armbar?

 

[el dub]

Anything past 90* on the back I think. (Arm perpendicular to spine is OK.)

 

[crablegs1]

Is there actually an illegal armbar?

Yes. Take a look at the rule book. Page 99 arm bars. Page 88 hammerlocks. Not sure exactly what was being used.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4...s-and-interpretations-2-year-publication.aspx

 

[texas twister]

Did the ISU kid default out of the match because of injury due to arm bar?

The match had to be restarted first because unable to continue is a loss automatically for Mocco. The ref hit the whistle and immediately hit it again as then the ISU kid defaulted. The rule book always has to be followed. I too was in KC to see it.

 

[lookleft goright]

People who have been around Douglas have said he is a stand up guy. He has taken the high road more than once. ( for you 23 so far) - I don't think people have to praise him for doing the right thing, they just are choosing to praise him.
Also, my recollection of the events is that Mocco was warned a time or two to stop doing what he was doing or he was told to keep it legal. Either the ref was an Iowa hater or he had a set of balls, because throwing Mocco out would have required one of those to be true.

 

[24 so far]

I'm curious why this was the right thing? Not disagreeing, but just wonder the reasoning.

Let's say this is the national finals and the roles are reversed. Scott Coleman applies an illegal arm bar and injures Mocco so that Mocco cannot continue. Would it be the right thing for the Iowa coaches to give the win to Coleman? I don't think so, so I'm not following the logic on this.

You don't follow the logic because you're not wrapping your head around the entire situation, what was at stake and who all was involved. As for your fantasy scenario, I'm not gonna bother to comment.

First off, let me say I am not trying to disparage Scott Coleman in any way. I presume he is a fine person, and he wouldn't be the first person who was unseeded to beat a heavily favored seeded wrestler, but he'd be on a short list. I don't recall the score at the time, but there was no indication a major upset was about to happen.

The "logic" is that Mocco isn't losing to Scott Coleman outside of a "miracle". Scott Coleman knows this, and everyone on the planet knows this. So Scott Coleman's only real chance to win this match is to say he can't go on (think me against Ed Banach - same weight class, different abilities), after receiving a call for an illegal arm bar. The fly in the ointment in this situation was the ISU assistants who cornered the match (Bono was one of them I think - a guy who was owned by an Iowa Wrestler his entire career - hint: he doesn't like Iowa). Only Scott Coleman knows how bad he was "injured" (I don't doubt for one second his "injury" got worse after the ISU assistants in the corner realized he could win the match at that moment - if you were there you would fully understand what I'm talking about).

Let me put it this way. If Scott Coleman is wrestling Bob Johnson from Old Dominion in this match, Coleman likely has a quick recovery and the match runs its course and everyone gets on with their lives no matter the final outcome. It's a tiny blip on the radar, certainly not being discussed a decade + later.

 

[24 so far]

People who have been around Douglas have said he is a stand up guy. He has taken the high road more than once. ( for you 23 so far) - I don't think people have to praise him for doing the right thing, they just are choosing to praise him.
Also, my recollection of the events is that Mocco was warned a time or two to stop doing what he was doing or he was told to keep it legal. Either the ref was an Iowa hater or he had a set of balls, because throwing Mocco out would have required one of those to be true.

I have ZERO problem with Bobby Douglas. Build a fricking statue for him as far as I'm concerned (for you lookleftgoright).

 

[24 so far]

I'm curious why this was the right thing? Not disagreeing, but just wonder the reasoning.

Let's say this is the national finals and the roles are reversed. Scott Coleman applies an illegal arm bar and injures Mocco so that Mocco cannot continue. Would it be the right thing for the Iowa coaches to give the win to Coleman? I don't think so, so I'm not following the logic on this.

For the record. Coleman "recovered" from his injury and lost in OT in his next match to another unseeded wrestler named Justin Staebler from Wisconsin and was out of the tourney.

Mocco won the tournament. Is the logic starting to come to you? (I'm sorry, but this is no-brainer stuff)

 

[crablegs1]

Here are the facts of the situation:

1. Mocco was called for an illegal hold
2. Coleman said he could not continue the match.

Whether or not Coleman could ever beat Mocco is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. By this logic Mocco should have been allowed to use illegal holds and injur 90 % of the wrestlers he faced with no consequences. Because those opponents had no real chance to beat them anyway. He should be able to do whatever he wants regardless of rules.

You are also 100% speculating about the extent of Colemans injury and insinuating he was faking. Do you have any proof of that, or does it just fit your opinion so you're going with it. Whether or not he wrestled the next match doesn't mean anything. Wrestlers don't have option to go back into a tunnel and get checked out like a football player does. Coleman could have very well been in serious pain and believed his injury was more severe then it was. Trainers may not have wanted him to continue for fear of serious injury to tendons or ligaments. After some treatment and evaluation he determined he was ok to wrestle his next match.

 

[24 so far]

Here are the facts of the situation:

1. Mocco was called for an illegal hold
2. Coleman said he could not continue the match.

Whether or not Coleman could ever beat Mocco is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. By this logic Mocco should have been allowed to use illegal holds and injur 90 % of the wrestlers he faced with no consequences. Because those opponents had no real chance to beat them anyway. He should be able to do whatever he wants regardless of rules.

You are also 100% speculating about the extent of Colemans injury and insinuating he was faking. Do you have any proof of that, or does it just fit your opinion so you're going with it. Whether or not he wrestled the next match doesn't mean anything. Wrestlers don't have option to go back into a tunnel and get checked out like a football player does. Coleman could have very well been in serious pain and believed his injury was more severe then it was. Trainers may not have wanted him to continue for fear of serious injury to tendons or ligaments. After some treatment and evaluation he determined he was ok to wrestle his next match.

If you don't get it, I can't help you. Watch Dr. Phil, or Oprah, maybe they can.

 

[SmartAggressive]

I was there too. Seems to me like Coleman already had a bum shoulder before the match. I don't recall who the official was, but it seemed ridiculous that he called it illegal rather than just stopping it.

Bono was in the corner (don't remember who else) and he definitely wanted to win by DQ. Alger was in Mocco's corner, and I thought he was going to go across the mat and kill Bono.

I seem to recall Douglas coming out of the tunnel near the mat (it was a corner mat). After some discussion, the match was restarted, then stopped. My respect for Bobby Douglas went up that day. Lost a lot of respect for Bono.

As an aside, anyone else remember the dual meet at Carver when Bono told an exhausted ISU wrestler to stay down and take injury time after going out of bounds. I believe it was Trent Paulson against Joe Johnston.