Some perspective on CJ

[Ihawkhoops]

I figured an 8th CJ thread was just right amount. It goes without saying I wish CJ wouldn't have bailed or at least done it a few weeks ago. Who knows what led to his decision but the timing of the 'no surgery' needed comment from Fran and his departure seem a bit ironic. I think it's fair to speculate he wanted to project a clean bill of health to ensure _________ team would see the smoke signal.

Here is my POV for those who have been anxiously waiting for it which would be nobody. CJ showed flashes of really good, but at the end of the day he averaged 9 ppg and was always hurt. Despite Fran saying he was good, he looked a step slow for all but maybe a handful of games this season. He certainly didn't leave over playing time, so it was either Fran, team dynamics, desire to pursue greener pastures or combo of all the above.

We all saw potential for CJ to step up when healthy next year especially if JW departs, but again, he averaged 9 ppg. Yes he played good D but so can can others with the requisite lateral quickness. My point here is that CJ's actual productivity isn't that hard to replace IF Fran can set aside his ego and disdain for the portal and get a guy or two. It's not that hard to find a guy who can play a little D and get you 8-12 ppg---Fran just makes it seem that way.

My starting 5 would be: Josh, Keegan, Perkins, Joe T, and Pmac. Ulis, Kris Murray, Mulvey and Connor (when healthy) off the bench. Sandfort included here if he is closer to JW than Ellingson. If the latter, Fran needs two guys from the portal and Sandfort can have a year to develop. My hope is Fran can seal the deal on 1-2 guys vs. talking Jbo into coming back which is what I fear is going through his head at this moment.

 

[vgshwk]

I figured an 8th CJ thread was just right amount. It goes without saying I wish CJ wouldn't have bailed or at least done it a few weeks ago. Who knows what led to his decision but the timing of the 'no surgery' needed comment from Fran and his departure seem a bit ironic. I think it's fair to speculate he wanted to project a clean bill of health to ensure _________ team would see the smoke signal.

Here is my POV for those who have been anxiously waiting for it which would be nobody. CJ showed flashes of really good, but at the end of the day he averaged 9 ppg and was always hurt. Despite Fran saying he was good, he looked a step slow for all but maybe a handful of games this season. He certainly didn't leave over playing time, so it was either Fran, team dynamics, desire to pursue greener pastures or combo of all the above.

We all saw potential for CJ to step up when healthy next year especially if JW departs, but again, he averaged 9 ppg. Yes he played good D but so can can others with the requisite lateral quickness. My point here is that CJ's actual productivity isn't that hard to replace IF Fran can set aside his ego and disdain for the portal and get a guy or two. It's not that hard to find a guy who can play a little D and get you 8-12 ppg---Fran just makes it seem that way.

My starting 5 would be: Josh, Keegan, Perkins, Joe T, and Pmac. Ulis, Kris Murray, Mulvey and Connor (when healthy) off the bench. Sandfort included here if he is closer to JW than Ellingson. If the latter, Fran needs two guys from the portal and Sandfort can have a year to develop. My hope is Fran can seal the deal on 1-2 guys vs. talking Jbo into coming back which is what I fear is going through his head at this moment.

I am sure Fran feels betrayed by the fredrichs family whom he was supposed to be friends with. There kind of friendship no one needs

 

[Ihawkhoops]

I am sure Fran feels betrayed by the fredrichs family whom he was supposed to be friends with. There kind of friendship no one needs

Yeah that is odd. Who knows? Seems like there had to be some rift that developed along the way given Fran's relationship to his dad or uncle whoever it is. Ultimately CJ gets one shot to play college hoops and if he thinks he can upgrade his position, then so be it. Fran needs to be the recipient of another player/s looking for a new opportunity.

 

[VicHawkeye]

Frederick Arnold

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Like the starting 5. Question how many minutes Josh O will be able to give. Major body transformation and conditioning improvement needed.

 

[e720718998]

I Likes CJ but I would not call him a stat stuffer.
He would of had a bigger roll next year but again just a shooter and not much of a scorer. I think we can get more out of his minutes.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Like the starting 5. Question how many minutes Josh O will be able to give. Major body transformation and conditioning improvement needed.

Hard to say. The kid seems to want it bad enough to put the time in and he has had an excellent mentor in Garza. It may be play until he grabs his jersey and put Mulvey in. Iowa without either on the floor in certain matchups isn't a bad thing potentially. Keegan is already a match up nightmare and I expect Kris to be similar--put another 10 pounds of muscle on both and go small.

 

[IAHawkGrad2000]

More and more evident Fran needs to hit the portal hard... loyalty is dead

 

[St78I81]

More and more evident Fran needs to hit the portal hard... loyalty is dead

Most of the good cats are out of the bag.

 

[33hawkfan]

He also has a terrible hair cut. And looked like a chubby 12 year old.

 

[goodbyebobby]

I figured an 8th CJ thread was just right amount. It goes without saying I wish CJ wouldn't have bailed or at least done it a few weeks ago. Who knows what led to his decision but the timing of the 'no surgery' needed comment from Fran and his departure seem a bit ironic. I think it's fair to speculate he wanted to project a clean bill of health to ensure _________ team would see the smoke signal.

Here is my POV for those who have been anxiously waiting for it which would be nobody. CJ showed flashes of really good, but at the end of the day he averaged 9 ppg and was always hurt. Despite Fran saying he was good, he looked a step slow for all but maybe a handful of games this season. He certainly didn't leave over playing time, so it was either Fran, team dynamics, desire to pursue greener pastures or combo of all the above.

We all saw potential for CJ to step up when healthy next year especially if JW departs, but again, he averaged 9 ppg. Yes he played good D but so can can others with the requisite lateral quickness. My point here is that CJ's actual productivity isn't that hard to replace IF Fran can set aside his ego and disdain for the portal and get a guy or two. It's not that hard to find a guy who can play a little D and get you 8-12 ppg---Fran just makes it seem that way.

My starting 5 would be: Josh, Keegan, Perkins, Joe T, and Pmac. Ulis, Kris Murray, Mulvey and Connor (when healthy) off the bench. Sandfort included here if he is closer to JW than Ellingson. If the latter, Fran needs two guys from the portal and Sandfort can have a year to develop. My hope is Fran can seal the deal on 1-2 guys vs. talking Jbo into coming back which is what I fear is going through his head at this moment.

We have an athletic, defensive, minded roster now. It is almost the exact opposite of what Fran seems to have had to date.
Can we get some opposite results in the postseason?

 

[BBHawk]

Most of the good cats are out of the bag.

No they aren't. FFS, CJ's name isn't even in the portal yet!

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

No they aren't. FFS, CJ's name isn't even in the portal yet!

CJF knows where he is going. Just ask Calipari. The cheater's yutes aren't doing the trick. So, he's pulling in a sure thing....assuming CJF gets and stays healthy... BIG '?'

 

[Rambler Hawk]

I figured an 8th CJ thread was just right amount. It goes without saying I wish CJ wouldn't have bailed or at least done it a few weeks ago. Who knows what led to his decision but the timing of the 'no surgery' needed comment from Fran and his departure seem a bit ironic. I think it's fair to speculate he wanted to project a clean bill of health to ensure _________ team would see the smoke signal.

Here is my POV for those who have been anxiously waiting for it which would be nobody. CJ showed flashes of really good, but at the end of the day he averaged 9 ppg and was always hurt. Despite Fran saying he was good, he looked a step slow for all but maybe a handful of games this season. He certainly didn't leave over playing time, so it was either Fran, team dynamics, desire to pursue greener pastures or combo of all the above.

We all saw potential for CJ to step up when healthy next year especially if JW departs, but again, he averaged 9 ppg. Yes he played good D but so can can others with the requisite lateral quickness. My point here is that CJ's actual productivity isn't that hard to replace IF Fran can set aside his ego and disdain for the portal and get a guy or two. It's not that hard to find a guy who can play a little D and get you 8-12 ppg---Fran just makes it seem that way.

My starting 5 would be: Josh, Keegan, Perkins, Joe T, and Pmac. Ulis, Kris Murray, Mulvey and Connor (when healthy) off the bench. Sandfort included here if he is closer to JW than Ellingson. If the latter, Fran needs two guys from the portal and Sandfort can have a year to develop. My hope is Fran can seal the deal on 1-2 guys vs. talking Jbo into coming back which is what I fear is going through his head at this moment.

very well done Sir, I wanted to question you on Josh, but I see you addressed that already....

 

[Ihawkhoops]

More and more evident Fran needs to hit the portal hard... loyalty is dead

We have an athletic, defensive, minded roster now. It is almost the exact opposite of what Fran seems to have had to date.
Can we get some opposite results in the postseason?

Good question. Fran should have been shown the door a few years ago and certainly should not have received an extension this year IMO. Average coach, well below average recruiter and poor game / roster manager. Add to this Fran says how awful the portal is while desperately to grab a couple guys from it with 90% of the scoring from last year gone.

I guess when you get paid $20M over 10 years to be mediocre you are in a position to flip the fan base and media the bird and run your own show. Fran may not get Iowa back to the tournament, not to mention the Sweet 16. Just hope his investments do well and he opts for early retirement.

 

[Slim45]

Good question. Fran should have been shown the door a few years ago and certainly should not have received an extension this year IMO. Average coach, well below average recruiter and poor game / roster manager. Add to this Fran says how awful the portal is while desperately to grab a couple guys from it with 90% of the scoring from last year gone.

I guess when you get paid $20M over 10 years to be mediocre you are in a position to flip the fan base and media the bird and run your own show. Fran may not get Iowa back to the tournament, not to mention the Sweet 16. Just hope his investments do well and he opts for early retirement.

For being a poor recruiter AND a poor coach he sure has somehow managed to win quite a few games over his tenure.

 

[Jizzer]

Good question. Fran should have been shown the door a few years ago and certainly should not have received an extension this year IMO. Average coach, well below average recruiter and poor game / roster manager. Add to this Fran says how awful the portal is while desperately to grab a couple guys from it with 90% of the scoring from last year gone.

I guess when you get paid $20M over 10 years to be mediocre you are in a position to flip the fan base and media the bird and run your own show. Fran may not get Iowa back to the tournament, not to mention the Sweet 16. Just hope his investments do well and he opts for early retirement.

You know 20 Million over 10 years is a very mediocre salary compared to many, right? Why do you even care about his salary? You hate Fran, we all get it, nobody is claiming him to be the best ever, but in the last 5 years, he would have taken us to 4 NCAA tourneys. How can you possibly think he shouldn't have been extended? Have you looked around us at the other similar midwest Bball programs? Minny, NW, ISU, Nebraska, Missouri, Indiana, KSU and even Illinois before the last two years with ample recruiting ground compared to Iowa. Again, if Fran wasn't extended, how does he recruit with 2 years left on a contract?

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

It's obvious he no longer wanted to be a Hawk. I wish him well but good riddance.

I think the bigger issue is Fran's attitude towards the new transfer rule. Time for him to get on board. Transfers worked for Hoiberg at ISU they can work for UI too.

 

[fezzador]

The

You know 20 Million over 10 years is a very mediocre salary compared to many, right? Why do you even care about his salary? You hate Fran, we all get it, nobody is claiming him to be the best ever, but in the last 5 years, he would have taken us to 4 NCAA tourneys. How can you possibly think he shouldn't have been extended? Have you looked around us at the other similar midwest Bball programs? Minny, NW, ISU, Nebraska, Missouri, Indiana, KSU and even Illinois before the last two years with ample recruiting ground compared to Iowa. Again, if Fran wasn't extended, how does he recruit with 2 years left on a contract?

Because Fran is pretty much the second coming of Doc Tom, who ultimately did NOT get extended.

Davis took advantage of the (relatively) insane amount of talent that his predecessors left behind and rode them into some pretty impressive tourney runs early on, but just like Fran, Davis had a reputation for being a lazy recruiter and stubborn to a fault, which generally isn't a recipe for anything except moderate success. I'm guessing Fran could have probably ridden BJ Armstrong and Roy Marble to a Sweet 16 too, as not one of his teams had the talent Iowa had in the 80s.

Long story short, Iowa can be better because Iowa has been better.

 

[Suterman]

If it's his lifelong dream to ride the pine at Kentucky then CJ is in business.

 

[Suterman]

Because Fran is pretty much the second coming of Doc Tom, who ultimately did NOT get extended.

Davis took advantage of the (relatively) insane amount of talent that his predecessors left behind and rode them into some pretty impressive tourney runs early on, but just like Fran, Davis had a reputation for being a lazy recruiter and stubborn to a fault, which generally isn't a recipe for anything except moderate success. I'm guessing Fran could have probably ridden BJ Armstrong and Roy Marble to a Sweet 16 too, as not one of his teams had the talent Iowa had in the 80s.

Long story short, Iowa can be better because Iowa has been better.

Fran is ANYTHING but a lazy recruiter. He is a tireless recruiter.

 

[fezzador]

Fran is ANYTHING but a lazy recruiter. He is a tireless recruiter.

Maybe "lazy" isn't the right word for it, but he's not particularly talented at it.

 

[jimbob22]

If it's his lifelong dream to ride the pine at Kentucky then CJ is in business.

Who is this Fredrick guy? Just more Kentucky trash.

 

[hexumhawk]

I dont blame the kid for wanting to play for his team he grew up loving. Liked his game and was a fabulous shooter and underrated driver and defender imo. He was also always hurt at some point every season so not like you can rely on him for crunch time. There are other players out there to pick up.

 

[DewHawk]

I dont blame the kid for wanting to play for his team he grew up loving. Liked his game and was a fabulous shooter and underrated driver and defender imo. He was also always hurt at some point every season so not like you can rely on him for crunch time. There are other players out there to pick up.

According to previous articles he never liked Kentucky. And, the way he left and played Iowa was BS IMO.

 

[BBHawk]

Most of the good cats are out of the bag.

No they aren't. FFS, CJ's name isn't even in the portal yet!

CJF knows where he is going. Just ask Calipari. The cheater's yutes aren't doing the trick. So, he's pulling in a sure thing....assuming CJF gets and stays healthy... BIG '?'

This has nothing to do with my post which was about who is left in the portal.

 

[hawk_a_holic]

The

Because Fran is pretty much the second coming of Doc Tom, who ultimately did NOT get extended.

Davis took advantage of the (relatively) insane amount of talent that his predecessors left behind and rode them into some pretty impressive tourney runs early on, but just like Fran, Davis had a reputation for being a lazy recruiter and stubborn to a fault, which generally isn't a recipe for anything except moderate success. I'm guessing Fran could have probably ridden BJ Armstrong and Roy Marble to a Sweet 16 too, as not one of his teams had the talent Iowa had in the 80s.

Long story short, Iowa can be better because Iowa has been better.

You can argue Fran's closing skills but to call him a 'lazy recruiter' is wrong.

 

[pocha444444]

Fran is ANYTHING but a lazy recruiter. He is a tireless recruiter.

I don't really follow recruiting, but what evidence is out there to suggest he's either lazy or tireless? How does anyone actually know? I just look at the results.

 

[hknation]

We have an athletic, defensive, minded roster now. It is almost the exact opposite of what Fran seems to have had to date.
Can we get some opposite results in the postseason?

For being a poor recruiter AND a poor coach he sure has somehow managed to win quite a few games over his tenure.

Om

It's obvious he no longer wanted to be a Hawk. I wish him well but good riddance.

I think the bigger issue is Fran's attitude towards the new transfer rule. Time for him to get on board. Transfers worked for Hoiberg at ISU they can work for UI too.

Even Kirk (Mr Conservative) Ferentz has back filled & played/started transfers, most recently Cronk & Heflin.
Transfers must be okay to sign.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

If it's his lifelong dream to ride the pine at Kentucky then CJ is in business.

Major college players that shoot over %45 from three are hard to find. He will see time anywhere. I would agree he may see less minutes somewhere else(Kentucky).

 

[BBHawk]

I don't really follow recruiting, but what evidence is out there to suggest he's either lazy or tireless? How does anyone actually know? I just look at the results.

Based on quotes from recruits. The Iowa staff is in contact with a lot of recruits but they are constantly evaluating others. That's why Iowa always seems to find another kid when they lose one. Getting Mulvey over Syracuse? That had to take some effort. Pulling Joe T out of NY City? Getting all Iowa kids would be easy, but so far McC just seems to cherry pick what he wants in state.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

He averaged 7 a game and missed half the year. Michael Jordan is not leaving the program

 

[blhawk]

You know 20 Million over 10 years is a very mediocre salary compared to many, right? Why do you even care about his salary? You hate Fran, we all get it, nobody is claiming him to be the best ever, but in the last 5 years, he would have taken us to 4 NCAA tourneys. How can you possibly think he shouldn't have been extended? Have you looked around us at the other similar midwest Bball programs? Minny, NW, ISU, Nebraska, Missouri, Indiana, KSU and even Illinois before the last two years with ample recruiting ground compared to Iowa. Again, if Fran wasn't extended, how does he recruit with 2 years left on a contract?

Huh? We didn't make the tourney in 17 and 18 so he would have made it 3x in 5 years but if Garza doesn't choose Iowa would he have made any? Probably, but even in 19 Garza was a point from being our leading scorer. Dude has carried the program last couple years and that's because of his dad and an unreal off-season work ethic. Fran has only made the field of 64 twice in 8 years without Garza being a big contributor. He's not great and he's not awful, the next few seasons will show what Fran is as a coach. My theory is nepotism and joke defense is already contributing to his future mediocrity

 

[longliveCS40]

CJ averaged 9 PPG while being injured for part of the year. He also played with the national player of the year (Garza), a guy who will possibly get into the NBA (Weezy), and a guy that played point but shot the ball a lot (JBo.) That took away touches.

My point is that his PPG would have soared this season if he were healthy. He would have been probably our first option on offense. He was also only a sophomore this season. I think all those things contributed to him averaging 9 PPG so to use that to kind of disparage him or to dismiss his value is a bit off the mark.

His departure would hurt in any year. He's a good player that might end up being great. It hurts even more as the biggest need we have next season are a shooter and a center. He would have filled one of those needs.

 

[BBHawk]

CJ averaged 9 PPG while being injured for part of the year. He also played with the national player of the year (Garza), a guy who will possibly get into the NBA (Weezy), and a guy that played point but shot the ball a lot (JBo.) That took away touches.

My point is that his PPG would have soared this season if he were healthy. He would have been probably our first option on offense. He was also only a sophomore this season. I think all those things contributed to him averaging 9 PPG so to use that to kind of disparage him or to dismiss his value is a bit off the mark.

His departure would hurt in any year. He's a good player that might end up being great. It hurts even more as the biggest need we have next season are a shooter and a center. He would have filled one of those needs.

CJ benefitted from having great players around him. He would have been double-teamed and more closely guarded next year than this.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

CJ was our most complete guard, but at this point CJ who? I hope that is not an indicator of some internal problems on the team. I understood Nunge leaving, not CJ...

Fran is better at spotting talent than convincing top players to come to Iowa. He needs to find a big guy and a wing in the transfer portal for Iowa to be more than mediocre next year. He needed to be working on that a month ago. I hope either Big O or Mulvey are ready to at least give good back up minutes. Hard to say. There is still a lot of promise at the other positions, but we won't have the shooters we had. We need to make up for that with better defense and better driving on offense. The athleticism is the best Fran has had at Iowa, so that is possible.

 

[St78I81]

This has nothing to do with my post which was about who is left in the portal.

CJ is gone. Deal with it.

 

[littlez]

CJ averaged 9 PPG while being injured for part of the year. He also played with the national player of the year (Garza), a guy who will possibly get into the NBA (Weezy), and a guy that played point but shot the ball a lot (JBo.) That took away touches.

My point is that his PPG would have soared this season if he were healthy. He would have been probably our first option on offense. He was also only a sophomore this season. I think all those things contributed to him averaging 9 PPG so to use that to kind of disparage him or to dismiss his value is a bit off the mark.

His departure would hurt in any year. He's a good player that might end up being great. It hurts even more as the biggest need we have next season are a shooter and a center. He would have filled one of those needs.

Good player that might end up being great? Time will tell I guess. I do think injuries have certainly held him back, but he's not a guy that can really get his own shot so in my opinion that will never get to even close to great. He's not even close to the level of Weiskamp, and a year behind him. He's 6-3, not particularly quick, way overrated as a defender because he was on such a lousy defensive team, but he is a way above average shooter. Kentucky had absolutely zero shooters this year, so this actually makes a lot of sense for him. Not sure he starts, but he will definitely get time, especially if continues to shoot over 45% from 3.

 

[BBHawk]

CJ is gone. Deal with it.

Are you stupid?

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

CJ averaged 9 PPG while being injured for part of the year. He also played with the national player of the year (Garza), a guy who will possibly get into the NBA (Weezy), and a guy that played point but shot the ball a lot (JBo.) That took away touches.

My point is that his PPG would have soared this season if he were healthy. He would have been probably our first option on offense. He was also only a sophomore this season. I think all those things contributed to him averaging 9 PPG so to use that to kind of disparage him or to dismiss his value is a bit off the mark.

His departure would hurt in any year. He's a good player that might end up being great. It hurts even more as the biggest need we have next season are a shooter and a center. He would have filled one of those needs.

CJ got plenty of touches. The pump faking is old and passing up decent looks is old. CJs a good shooter when he actually pulled the trigger, but in my opinion, he was passive during his time at Iowa, not near aggressive enough. Maybe that changes down the road for him, idk. Who knows if he's ever healthy enough to play a full season, that also remains to be seen.