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Sparty faking injuries again

ichawk24

HR Legend
Nov 21, 2005
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From Bielema's postgame presser:

ON MICHIGAN STATE'S REPEATED INJURIES:​

"We go tempo. Now they also set a record for injuries that miraculously came back from all those injuries. That was a little frustrating. But it’s the game, that’s the way it’s played. It was hard for us to get tempo going because they had a lot of players get injured and they had a lot of players get injured. When they get injured, it stops the clock, stops the momentum and it’s hard to get it going.”
 
They have to do something to fix this. Just like tv timeouts, it is slowing down the game.

I guess they’re going to have to require that a player who stops play for an injury has to stay out for the rest of the series or even quarter. Hate to advocate for another rule, but MSU has been getting away with this crap way to long! It probably isn’t the worst idea from a player welfare standpoint anyway.
 
MSU cheats. Always. The one constant in life. And they do it in all sports.

It might be the most corrupt program in NCAA history.

And yet the Big Ten does nothing about it. Unbelievable.
Faking injuries was an issue that was discussed at length by the NCAA and coaches in the offseason. Apparently, coaches were concerned about placing referees in a position where they would have to subjectively assess seriousness of injury. The referees have no means of in-game punishment but teams can be punished if complaints are raised and a review suggests that the injuries were being faked.


The answer is easy. If the injury is such that it requires a stoppage of play, that player cannot return until after a change of possession. Eliminates any subjectivity. Focuses on a player's health. Serves to disincentivize cheating.

The only potential risk that I could envision is a situation where a player with an injury who should stay on the turf to get immediate medical treatment tries to make his way to the sidelines to avoid being prevented from coming back into the game more quickly. There may be some risk to exacerbating an injury if that were to occur.

It certainly appeared to be going on in the MSU/Illinois game. No different than the shenanigans pulled in Iowa City during MSU's last visit.

EDIT: I meant to write PSU's last visit (not MSU).
 
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Faking injuries was an issue that was discussed at length by the NCAA and coaches in the offseason. Apparently, coaches were concerned about placing referees in a position where they would have to subjectively assess seriousness of injury. The referees have no means of in-game punishment but teams can be punished if complaints are raised and a review suggests that the injuries were being faked.


The answer is easy. If the injury is such that it requires a stoppage of play, that player cannot return until after a change of possession. Eliminates any subjectivity. Focuses on a player's health. Serves to disincentivize cheating.

The only potential risk that I could envision is a situation where a player with an injury who should stay on the turf to get immediate medical treatment tries to make his way to the sidelines to avoid being prevented from coming back into the game more quickly. There may be some risk to exacerbating an injury if that were to occur.

It certainly appeared to be going on in the MSU/Illinois game. No different than the shenanigans pulled in Iowa City during MSU's last visit.
Or your team takes a timeout, or start of a new quarter.
 
Or your team takes a timeout, or start of a new quarter.

Giving the team an option to "buy" an opportunity for the player to return before the next possession by using a time out is, IMO, a fair rules suggestion. Using a time out is always a fair means by which to try to disrupt another team's momentum or to take some time to regroup/catch breath.

I don't like the start of a new quarter suggestion because it doesn't serve as much of a disincentive to fake injuries late in a quarter.

I'd also be in favor of, during an injury situation, teams are not permitted to confer with coaching staff. They must remain on the field and coaches on the sideline. Hell, I'd love to see that rule in college basketball during video reviews. Too many lengthy "time out" where teams strategize while the refs try to determine whether the clock should read 1.2 or 1.3 seconds left.
 
Giving the team an option to "buy" an opportunity for the player to return before the next possession by using a time out is, IMO, a fair rules suggestion. Using a time out is always a fair means by which to try to disrupt another team's momentum or to take some time to regroup/catch breath.

I don't like the start of a new quarter suggestion because it doesn't serve as much of a disincentive to fake injuries late in a quarter.

I'd also be in favor of, during an injury situation, teams are not permitted to confer with coaching staff. They must remain on the field and coaches on the sideline. Hell, I'd love to see that rule in college basketball during video reviews. Too many lengthy "time out" where teams strategize while the refs try to determine whether the clock should read 1.2 or 1.3 seconds left.
Aurora it will be a stoppage of play. Similar to helmet coming off. If the whole aspect is making sure the player is healthy, a stoppage of a quarter with TV timeouts or a timeout will be included I can guarantee if this rule ever starts moving forward.
 
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I'd say 2 injury time outs per quarter, that's it. After 2 you have to use your time outs, if you don't have any more injury time outs or time outs to spend, its a 5 yard delay of game penalty. if the game is stopped twice for the same player, they should be removed from the game for "player safety"
 
Aurora it will be a stoppage of play. Similar to helmet coming off. If the whole aspect is making sure the player is healthy, a stoppage of a quarter with TV timeouts or a timeout will be included I can guarantee if this rule ever starts moving forward.

From what I understand, what was discussed is that the player had to sit out until the next first down. To me, that serves as very little disincentive to fake an injury - particularly given the frequency with which players are rotated in/out.

The "whole aspect" isn't about making sure that the player is healthy. That's just part of the motivation for the rule. Another motivation for the rule is to prevent a player from faking an injury and causing a stoppage of play. There has to be a "cost" for requiring play to come to a stop. And that "cost" is the inability of the player to return to the game until after a change of possession (unless a team has a time out that it is willing to burn).

That written, I fully acknowledge that I've never suspected a team of faking injuries towards the end of the first quarter and I can't think of a situation where I've seen it close to halftime. Towards end of 3rd quarter? Yes. Allowing a player to return at the start of a new quarter, regardless of whether there had been a subsequent change of possession, probably wouldn't undermine the rule to any significant extent.

To me . . . I'm still of the opinion that there has to be a consequence for requiring trainers to come onto the field while the team keeps its time outs. Sitting out for the rest of the series and not being allowed back into the game until a change of possession seems like an objective and clean way of promoting player health while simultaneously disincentivizing fake injuries.
 
The problem is how do you punish a few offenders without punishing the majority? The answer is you really can't - there really isn't a viable solution that doesn't involve officials having to male subjective calls and we all know giving refs MORE (subjective) control over the outcome of a game is probably not a good idea.

Football is a contact sport and injuries happen. Some are serious and some just seem serious at the moment in time. Anyone who has played a lot of sports (and you didn't have to play at a super high level...just played a lot) I'm sure has had more than one incident where they thought something was serious and a minute or two later felt just fine (if you haven't experienced this just have someone kick you in the nuts and you'll know what I'm talking about).

So the problem is that in the end, most of the rules suggested above will end hurting teams/players, who are honest in this regard, in more instances than it will for teams faking (who will just find better ways to get the same result)...that would be a big net loss for the game.
 
From Bielema's postgame presser:

ON MICHIGAN STATE'S REPEATED INJURIES:​

"We go tempo. Now they also set a record for injuries that miraculously came back from all those injuries. That was a little frustrating. But it’s the game, that’s the way it’s played. It was hard for us to get tempo going because they had a lot of players get injured and they had a lot of players get injured. When they get injured, it stops the clock, stops the momentum and it’s hard to get it going.”
Not the first time they have done that
 
Kind of OT. But what the heck was the over paid coach tucker thinking at the end of that game. I couldn't believe it with just over a min. 3rd and goal outside the ten and with no timeouts they called a passing play. Could've milked the clock to just around 30 sec. K misses a chip shot and ILL got the ball and drove it down to the 30 with a legit shot of tying a game they had no business of having a chance to do so.
 
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The problem is how do you punish a few offenders without punishing the majority? The answer is you really can't - there really isn't a viable solution that doesn't involve officials having to male subjective calls and we all know giving refs MORE (subjective) control over the outcome of a game is probably not a good idea.

There is nothing subjective about time being stopped to deal with an on field injury. Cut and dried.
 
Not difficult at all.
Morevover, I'm confident that the opposing sideline would be alert to the issue as well.
I think it would be easier to manage injury time outs and team time outs. I think 2 injury time outs per quarter and then losing a time out for each additional stoppage would stop this. If all of a sudden injury time outs start costing teams first downs you might see fewer stoppages. To make it non punitive against real injuries I would say the ITOs only apply in a running clock situation. So a guy getting hurt on a kickoff for instance wouldn’t count.
 
There is nothing subjective about time being stopped to deal with an on field injury. Cut and dried.
Correct, which is why I said there really isn't a viable option that DOESN'T involve refs being subjective.

Yes, injury stoppages are cut and dry but if a team has real injuries and you start penalizing them for it (taking away timeouts, making players sit for extended periods, etc.) then over time it hurts the many who are honest more than the few that are cheaters. My overall point btw.

On the other hand, one suggestion was giving the refs the power to determine if a player is faking it or not. That is would be subjective. Which is why I added that thought even though it was not the center of what I was saying.

Is that more clear?
 
Player can't return for the rest of the series . simple fix , it should not be this hard.
While I do think that this is the best option to deal with the problem, a devious coach who is hell bent on utilizing the "fake injury" strategy would probably find a way to exploit any loopholes....... for example: send in a backup DT for a snap and have him fake an injury. I don't thiink the problem can be completely remedied.
 
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“When an offense is moving like that the smart move is to just go down and just take your time and don't kind of rush through it, but that's what we went out, that's what we went out there and did,” Worthy said. “But at the same time, regardless of the injuries, we played our best ball this week and regardless of the injuries, we still went out there and dominated.”
 
IF the gutless NCAA ever gets around to making a rule that punishes a team for faking injuries they NEED to call it the Michigan State rule.
 
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While I do think that this is the best option to deal with the problem, a devious coach who is hell bent on utilizing the "fake injury" strategy would probably find a way to exploit any loopholes....... for example: send in a backup DT for a snap and have him fake an injury. I don't thiink the problem can be completely remedied.
The only other realistic option is a charged time out to the Team which is pretty punitive if a legit injury, at least the back up DT is out for the series which could hurt near the goal line or if another injury occurs on the DL that series.
 
The only other realistic option is a charged time out to the Team which is pretty punitive if a legit injury, at least the back up DT is out for the series which could hurt near the goal line or if another injury occurs on the DL that series.
What about 2 injury time outs per quarter then it’s a 5 yard delay of game that can be nullified with a time out?
 
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