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Speaking honestly about 2015/16 (LONG and my usual style)

DanL53

HB Legend
Sep 12, 2013
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It's too early to say much but I sense people were wanting to think ahead, and maybe I'm not ready to stop thinking Hawkeyes just yet myself. So here are some of my feelings about the upcoming season, in no particular order.

1) We simply don't know much of anything good or bad at this point except that we have our four seniors and Jok and Uhl coming back. That's even a stretch as how do we know that Uhl doesn't get homesick? There are Universities in Germany! That's just simply an example of how much speculation is required in any speculative examination of Iowa's potential in 2015/16. (There is a clue in there as to what my conclusions are going to be.)

2) But let's say all six are Hawkeyes in 2015/16. We know we get four starters back. That's not a bad thing. Not off a Big Ten team that finished 12-6! Not when one of them made third team All Big Ten, according to the coaches anyway. Our four returning starters gave us 96 minutes per game. We might as well add Clemmons to the mix as he was a significant player throughout the year. Twenty minutes per game. I'm going to leave Uhl off the list of returning players as he only played ten minutes per game and quite frankly he is still an uncertainty closer to a freshman than a returning player, in my opinion.

So these five returning guys.

Gesell: Starting Point Guard. 25 mpg. Shot .408 and .267 on the season. Scored 7.4 ppg. 135/61 assists to turnovers.
Clemmons: PG/SG. 20 mpg. Shot .381 and .373 on the year. Scored 4.8 ppg. 64/38
Jok: SG/SF. 20 mpg. Shot .358 and .343. Scored 7.0 ppg. 44/43 (I'll bet people thought the turnovers would be higher)
Uthoff: SF/PF. 30 mpg. .430 and .372. 12.4 ppg. 6.4 reb. (To me, Jared could play the four.)
Woodbury: C. 20.5 mpg. .489. 6.6 ppg and 5.4 reb.

I think it is fair to say one could push the minutes from about 115 to around 130. That means we'll be looking for at least three more contributors. But before we get to that let's look at some composite numbers as I think they reveal some good and bad. Returning/losing stats:

PPG: 38.2/27.7 (I'm counting the five guys above as the returning players and only the three seniors as those gone.)
FG's: 471/1137 41.4% leaving 298-629 47.2%
3 PT: 128/369 34.7% leaving 49/155 32.2%
REB: 614/474
A/T: 282/227 and 111/100 out the door.
FT: 229/323 70% and 294/367 80% leaving

Minor significance. We get our primary ball handlers back but the loss of Oglesby 48/21 means that at the guard spot we have no legitimate handler besides Clemmons and Gesell. Essentially, we HAVE no other proven guards. We can call Jok a guard all we want, but he was as much a guard as a short stretch four. (I said I would be honest
smile.r191677.gif
)

Major issue. Look at the free throws we not only lose but the percentage of them that we made!

Major issue. Not only are we losing about 42% of our scoring, but much of that was high percentage shots and we simply don't show much as far as capability to replace those points. In other words. White and Olaseni are gone! And we've got to find a rebounder or two as well.

Based on the numbers. Our returning players don't have what it takes to replace our first team All Big Ten power forward and Sixth man of the year Center.

That, folks, is a far cry from last season when we lost Marble, Basabe and McCabe and all we had to do is add some minutes to White, Uthoff...hope for someone to step up at guard and we knew that points wise Marble was just a volume scorer anyway. That, last year, was easy! This year, without reserves looking to fill the void, is going to be tough.

3) The good news is our juniors were some of our best defenders. That's half the game that we shouldn't forget about. Olaseni's defense was overrated, and White wasn't stopping anyone either.

4) Dominique Uhl. So I left him off the returning players. He played ten minutes per game but by seasons end was seeing less minutes and his contributions had gone down. 10 mpg, .361 and .185. 2.1 ppg, 1.8 reb. Dom is better off we just start over and call year one a working redshirt. We saw what he brings a bit and his potential is there. And, yes he will probably be our sixth man and backup both forward positions. But he didn't give indications of being ready to be a scorer for us. He is, however another excellent defender.

5) Tossing Uhl back in the mix now. It is clear we are going to suffer big time on the offensive end of the court. We lost such a big part of our half court offense. We could use a scorer or two, a rebounder or two, some depth at guard, and of course there is some question as to what we do to replace Woodbury when he sits. But this isn't as big of a deal now that someone, me, has finally pointed out that Woodbury was our only real inside defender anyway.

Don't believe me? Go back and look at the games where Woody was in foul trouble. We were eaten alive on the interior. I liked Gabe but all he did was go shot block hunting on defense.

So, Woody haters, and Gesell and Clemmons haters, time to appreciate that they were the guts of the defense and we still have that in 2014/15. Learn to love it, as other than firing up threes at 35% We don't have much offense. Not even Uthoff unless he gets that percentage up. As it is he's around a Devyn Marble rate...volume shooter. We could get by with it but then it would be the defense winning games for us, like in 2013/14 until our defense fell apart.

Sounds kind of scary. That's because we only have six guys coming back and for the first time since the 2012/13 season we need help from the new guys!

6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it. But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again, if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know.

7) Brady Ellingson will be back if he choses to be. And we've got five commits and one scholarship to give. All of these players are pretty much wing types. Shooting guard to maybe a couple in Hutton and Wagner that we could nudge into a power forward role on defense.

Ellingson, Fleming and Moss are reputed to be guys that can hit some outside shots. So we could potentially add to the one thing we have coming back on offense.

But with these bodies, and purported athleticism, we might make up some half court troubles with a robust fast break. And I think it is fair to expect that.

Defensively, once one gets past believing that this last season we were much better than just one post player anyway, it is quite possible that we could improve! (We shouldn't be any worse.)

8) The McCaffery Solution/Conclusion. Maybe something we CAN start hanging our hopes on, since the Astrologists have been blown off the map by modern science and math, is that McCaffery has shown an ability to find and develop talent.

A presume we are ready to say now that White, Olaseni, Gesell, Woodbury, Clemmons, Uthoff and even Jok have all gotten better during their time at Iowa? It may not be perfect, but overall isn't it likely that our five returned very experienced players might take another step up? That Uhl could see some offensive sets tossed his way?

And I suspect we might agree that between Ellingson and the five 2015 commits and one possible player to be named later.....SOMEBODY or two will be ready to step in and contribute?

I'm counting on it. Just based on the "odds" that I've kind of calculated in my head of McCaffery successes. I'm expecting a player to step in and be a four year starter starting next year. And a couple more to be the depth we need.

I'm making a calculated guess based on having seen typical results from McCaffery recruiting. That, and remembering we had two, sometimes three, starting freshmen in 2012/13 and still won 25 games.

9) The recap.

A) Five experienced returning players, good defense coming back.
B) Our offense is going to need help. Even our FT shooting looks to stink.
C) Woody really was our only post defender anyway.
D) Uhl and a bunch of newbies, recruiting is not done, and we can't believe star rankings anyway.
E) But if we allow ourselves to believe past experiences and results...we COULD have the guys it takes to be a good team again.

We've got nothing that says we won't be, but there are things that we need to fill in some gaps to be as good as 2014/15. And we've got plenty of new bodies to pick from to find those things.

Now doesn't that make it all crystal clear?
smile.r191677.gif
 
Next year we'll have better guard play and make more 3 point shots. We'll be a smaller team with the loss of Gabe and White but when we're able to hit more shots it will make up for that.

Were going to be a faster team. Uhl will score the ball next year being the 6th man. Wouldn't be surprised if he's averaging 10 ppg. Very quick and can get to the rim even between 2 defenders. Reminds me of Pierre Pierce.

I think our bench will be better next year and might even outscore the starters in some games. These players coming in are the type that can push the tempo. Maybe we're playing 10 next year and do it well.

Still too many unknown's but I like the direction. I think Fran might be banking on some players growing even more. Pemsyl is the guy I think that can play well down low and be the big for us. I'm looking for the 2017 class before we're able to get a big bruiser type. Need to make the tourney again next year, get some exposure, and land our big.

My prediction next year is 13 - 5. Make the Sweet 16 and call it a great season.
 
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
 
Originally posted by DanL53:

It's too early to say much but I sense people were wanting to think ahead, and maybe I'm not ready to stop thinking Hawkeyes just yet myself. So here are some of my feelings about the upcoming season, in no particular order.

1) We simply don't know much of anything good or bad at this point except that we have our four seniors and Jok and Uhl coming back. That's even a stretch as how do we know that Uhl doesn't get homesick? There are Universities in Germany! That's just simply an example of how much speculation is required in any speculative examination of Iowa's potential in 2015/16. (There is a clue in there as to what my conclusions are going to be.)

2) But let's say all six are Hawkeyes in 2015/16. We know we get four starters back. That's not a bad thing. Not off a Big Ten team that finished 12-6! Not when one of them made third team All Big Ten, according to the coaches anyway. Our four returning starters gave us 96 minutes per game. We might as well add Clemmons to the mix as he was a significant player throughout the year. Twenty minutes per game. I'm going to leave Uhl off the list of returning players as he only played ten minutes per game and quite frankly he is still an uncertainty closer to a freshman than a returning player, in my opinion.

So these five returning guys.

Gesell: Starting Point Guard. 25 mpg. Shot .408 and .267 on the season. Scored 7.4 ppg. 135/61 assists to turnovers.
Clemmons: PG/SG. 20 mpg. Shot .381 and .373 on the year. Scored 4.8 ppg. 64/38
Jok: SG/SF. 20 mpg. Shot .358 and .343. Scored 7.0 ppg. 44/43 (I'll bet people thought the turnovers would be higher)
Uthoff: SF/PF. 30 mpg. .430 and .372. 12.4 ppg. 6.4 reb. (To me, Jared could play the four.)
Woodbury: C. 20.5 mpg. .489. 6.6 ppg and 5.4 reb.

I think it is fair to say one could push the minutes from about 115 to around 130. That means we'll be looking for at least three more contributors. But before we get to that let's look at some composite numbers as I think they reveal some good and bad. Returning/losing stats:

PPG: 38.2/27.7 (I'm counting the five guys above as the returning players and only the three seniors as those gone.)
FG's: 471/1137 41.4% leaving 298-629 47.2%
3 PT: 128/369 34.7% leaving 49/155 32.2%
REB: 614/474
A/T: 282/227 and 111/100 out the door.
FT: 229/323 70% and 294/367 80% leaving

Minor significance. We get our primary ball handlers back but the loss of Oglesby 48/21 means that at the guard spot we have no legitimate handler besides Clemmons and Gesell. Essentially, we HAVE no other proven guards. We can call Jok a guard all we want, but he was as much a guard as a short stretch four. (I said I would be honest
smile.r191677.gif
)

Major issue. Look at the free throws we not only lose but the percentage of them that we made!

Major issue. Not only are we losing about 42% of our scoring, but much of that was high percentage shots and we simply don't show much as far as capability to replace those points. In other words. White and Olaseni are gone! And we've got to find a rebounder or two as well.

Based on the numbers. Our returning players don't have what it takes to replace our first team All Big Ten power forward and Sixth man of the year Center.

That, folks, is a far cry from last season when we lost Marble, Basabe and McCabe and all we had to do is add some minutes to White, Uthoff...hope for someone to step up at guard and we knew that points wise Marble was just a volume scorer anyway. That, last year, was easy! This year, without reserves looking to fill the void, is going to be tough.

3) The good news is our juniors were some of our best defenders. That's half the game that we shouldn't forget about. Olaseni's defense was overrated, and White wasn't stopping anyone either.

4) Dominique Uhl. So I left him off the returning players. He played ten minutes per game but by seasons end was seeing less minutes and his contributions had gone down. 10 mpg, .361 and .185. 2.1 ppg, 1.8 reb. Dom is better off we just start over and call year one a working redshirt. We saw what he brings a bit and his potential is there. And, yes he will probably be our sixth man and backup both forward positions. But he didn't give indications of being ready to be a scorer for us. He is, however another excellent defender.

5) Tossing Uhl back in the mix now. It is clear we are going to suffer big time on the offensive end of the court. We lost such a big part of our half court offense. We could use a scorer or two, a rebounder or two, some depth at guard, and of course there is some question as to what we do to replace Woodbury when he sits. But this isn't as big of a deal now that someone, me, has finally pointed out that Woodbury was our only real inside defender anyway.

Don't believe me? Go back and look at the games where Woody was in foul trouble. We were eaten alive on the interior. I liked Gabe but all he did was go shot block hunting on defense.

So, Woody haters, and Gesell and Clemmons haters, time to appreciate that they were the guts of the defense and we still have that in 2014/15. Learn to love it, as other than firing up threes at 35% We don't have much offense. Not even Uthoff unless he gets that percentage up. As it is he's around a Devyn Marble rate...volume shooter. We could get by with it but then it would be the defense winning games for us, like in 2013/14 until our defense fell apart.

Sounds kind of scary. That's because we only have six guys coming back and for the first time since the 2012/13 season we need help from the new guys!

6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it. But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again, if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know.

7) Brady Ellingson will be back if he choses to be. And we've got five commits and one scholarship to give. All of these players are pretty much wing types. Shooting guard to maybe a couple in Hutton and Wagner that we could nudge into a power forward role on defense.

Ellingson, Fleming and Moss are reputed to be guys that can hit some outside shots. So we could potentially add to the one thing we have coming back on offense.

But with these bodies, and purported athleticism, we might make up some half court troubles with a robust fast break. And I think it is fair to expect that.

Defensively, once one gets past believing that this last season we were much better than just one post player anyway, it is quite possible that we could improve! (We shouldn't be any worse.)

8) The McCaffery Solution/Conclusion. Maybe something we CAN start hanging our hopes on, since the Astrologists have been blown off the map by modern science and math, is that McCaffery has shown an ability to find and develop talent.

A presume we are ready to say now that White, Olaseni, Gesell, Woodbury, Clemmons, Uthoff and even Jok have all gotten better during their time at Iowa? It may not be perfect, but overall isn't it likely that our five returned very experienced players might take another step up? That Uhl could see some offensive sets tossed his way?

And I suspect we might agree that between Ellingson and the five 2015 commits and one possible player to be named later.....SOMEBODY or two will be ready to step in and contribute?

I'm counting on it. Just based on the "odds" that I've kind of calculated in my head of McCaffery successes. I'm expecting a player to step in and be a four year starter starting next year. And a couple more to be the depth we need.

I'm making a calculated guess based on having seen typical results from McCaffery recruiting. That, and remembering we had two, sometimes three, starting freshmen in 2012/13 and still won 25 games.

9) The recap.

A) Five experienced returning players, good defense coming back.
B) Our offense is going to need help. Even our FT shooting looks to stink.
C) Woody really was our only post defender anyway.
D) Uhl and a bunch of newbies, recruiting is not done, and we can't believe star rankings anyway.
E) But if we allow ourselves to believe past experiences and results...we COULD have the guys it takes to be a good team again.

We've got nothing that says we won't be, but there are things that we need to fill in some gaps to be as good as 2014/15. And we've got plenty of new bodies to pick from to find those things.

Now doesn't that make it all crystal clear?
smile.r191677.gif
Will this be coming out in Paperback soon?
happy.r191677.gif
Would be an easier read:)

 
Interesting study, essentially saying to avoid putting all your recruiting effort into guys ranked 50-80 because apparently they're not worth it. Could be by the numbers. An underlying message is to look at how players affect your team rather than their rankings.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Are you serious clark??? I have not heard/read this anywhere.
 
possible change to the lineup will go a long way to replacing White at the 4

6'9 220 lbs White had these for stats
16.4 ppg 248 rebounds, 48 assists 45 steals and 16 blocks
81.9% FTM, 35.6% from 3, 52.1% from the field.

6'9 210 lbs Uthoff could and may end up as IA's 4 next fall had these for stats
12.4 ppg, 218 rebounds, 59 assists, 38 steals led the team in Blocked shots with 56
73.7% from the FTL, 37.2% from 3 and 43% from the field

as a SO he was 81.7% from the FTL, 42.5% from 3 and 50% from the field, its not unreasonable to think he can't improve to 15-16 ppg next fall

the loss of White and Gabe are going to be hard BUT NOT impossible, JO although not as productive has some had hoped will not be impossible to replace, as Ellingson, Fleming and Moss all will be capable replacement candidates, even Williams will be in the mix at 6-6 with a wing span of 7'0 feet, its not all gloom and doom as some try to make it out to be,

3 SR starters return and then you add 6th man to be SR AC this will be a very solid team, as for Uhl if he wanted to play college ball in Europe he would have already done it,
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Not sure why he would want to be a backup for Ulis.
 
Originally posted by UIHawkGuy8:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Are you serious clark??? I have not heard/read this anywhere.
Am I serious that it's a rumor I heard? Yes. Am I seriously suggesting it will happen? No, I'm just relaying gossip, not making predictions one way or the other.

On the surface, it doesn't seem outlandish.

1. If the NCAA doesn't ban UNC, there will be an utter shitstorm. What they did goes to the heart of what the NCAA is supposed to be all about.

2. My understanding of the rule is that when this happens, juniors and seniors who weren't directly involved in the violations get a waiver from the NCAA that allows them to be immediately eligible at another school.

3. Paige played with Gesell and Woodbury and presumably had Iowa on his short list when he was originally recruited, although there's no doubt he always intended to go to Chapel Hill.

4. He would fill a gap on next year's Iowa team. Not as much as if he were 6-11, 265, but still a gap.

5. His alternatives would be to play for UNC his final year out of loyalty, knowing he wouldn't play in the post-season; go to the NBA, for which he probably isn't ready; or transfer somewhere else, which doesn't seem likely.
 
I seriously doubt Uthoff plays the four. He thinks like a three, plays like a three. Why move your best player away from his best position? A coach's job is to put his players in situations where they can succeed. Uthoff can guard smaller guys and is a hard match up problem at the three. At the four, he is easier to guard and you give up your best offensive weapon. Plus, he may struggle guarding big strong power fours. You do not want him in foul trouble. He is only guy on team who can create shots. Jarrod also knows his future in pro ball is at the three, not the four.

If Paige left UNC, it would be for the NBA.

A lot of the Hawk strength this year was their length, both and Def and Off. We lose 6 9 and 6 10 guys with long arms and excellent hops. We lose a lot that DanL did not comment on. Yes, neither of those guys, White and Oeseni, were awesome defenders, but their rebounding and general length will be sorely missed as no one coming in will replace those aspects.

Hawks will only be good if one of the freshmen can fill the four spot adequately. I don't see either Uhl or Uthoff as true fours. You can skip having a four on offense, but not on defense against most Big Ten teams who will match you against a true power forward. Teams will get to the rim much easier next year unless we play much better on ball def, but I don't think our guards are athletic enough to get much better at stopping penetration. We won't have length to erase penetration.

I look at 10-8 in conference. Bubble team NCAA.
But,. maybe the coaching staff can pull a rabbit out of the hat next year.
We have a lot of time to look forward to next year and maybe some fun Prime Time games to see the incoming freshmen.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by UIHawkGuy8:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Are you serious clark??? I have not heard/read this anywhere.
Am I serious that it's a rumor I heard? Yes. Am I seriously suggesting it will happen? No, I'm just relaying gossip, not making predictions one way or the other.

On the surface, it doesn't seem outlandish.

1. If the NCAA doesn't ban UNC, there will be an utter shitstorm. What they did goes to the heart of what the NCAA is supposed to be all about.

2. My understanding of the rule is that when this happens, juniors and seniors who weren't directly involved in the violations get a waiver from the NCAA that allows them to be immediately eligible at another school.

3. Paige played with Gesell and Woodbury and presumably had Iowa on his short list when he was originally recruited, although there's no doubt he always intended to go to Chapel Hill.

4. He would fill a gap on next year's Iowa team. Not as much as if he were 6-11, 265, but still a gap.

5. His alternatives would be to play for UNC his final year out of loyalty, knowing he wouldn't play in the post-season; go to the NBA, for which he probably isn't ready; or transfer somewhere else, which doesn't seem likely.
Please God, make this happen!!!!


Seriously, though, to the OP I respectfully disagree with a lot of your points, but in particular you state, "Our returning players don't have what it takes to replace our first team All Big Ten power forward and Sixth man of the year Center." You don't think Utoff is All Big Ten material or that Clemmons won't be on the short list for Sixth Man of the Year (assuming he doesn't start)?

I think people tend to think of these players statically when in truth there is a lot of evolution. Especially when dealing with seniors. Next year we have basically 4 returning senior starters. I would not underestimate their ability to improve and lock in for their last year. Throw in Jok and Uhl, probably the second and third most talented guys on the team, and I see a very bright future for us next year.
 
Originally posted by Mohawkeye:


Originally posted by Lone Clone:


Originally posted by UIHawkGuy8:


Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Are you serious clark??? I have not heard/read this anywhere.
Am I serious that it's a rumor I heard? Yes. Am I seriously suggesting it will happen? No, I'm just relaying gossip, not making predictions one way or the other.

On the surface, it doesn't seem outlandish.

1. If the NCAA doesn't ban UNC, there will be an utter shitstorm. What they did goes to the heart of what the NCAA is supposed to be all about.

2. My understanding of the rule is that when this happens, juniors and seniors who weren't directly involved in the violations get a waiver from the NCAA that allows them to be immediately eligible at another school.

3. Paige played with Gesell and Woodbury and presumably had Iowa on his short list when he was originally recruited, although there's no doubt he always intended to go to Chapel Hill.

4. He would fill a gap on next year's Iowa team. Not as much as if he were 6-11, 265, but still a gap.

5. His alternatives would be to play for UNC his final year out of loyalty, knowing he wouldn't play in the post-season; go to the NBA, for which he probably isn't ready; or transfer somewhere else, which doesn't seem likely.
Please God, make this happen!!!!


Seriously, though, to the OP I respectfully disagree with a lot of your points, but in particular you state, "Our returning players don't have what it takes to replace our first team All Big Ten power forward and Sixth man of the year Center." You don't think Utoff is All Big Ten material or that Clemmons won't be on the short list for Sixth Man of the Year (assuming he doesn't start)?

I think people tend to think of these players statically when in truth there is a lot of evolution. Especially when dealing with seniors. Next year we have basically 4 returning senior starters. I would not underestimate their ability to improve and lock in for their last year. Throw in Jok and Uhl, probably the second and third most talented guys on the team, and I see a very bright future for us next year.


I really like those points MoHawkeye and would love to see you be right. I would gratefully accept being entirely wrong if it meant Iowa ends up being one game better than they would be if I were right.

And reading your posts, I have no doubt you know as much about basketball as I.

My opinions on replacing White and Olaseni are based directly on the high percentage of shots they made for us and at this time no returning player has ever shown the inclination that they can reach those levels. And that includes drawing fouls and making free throws.

Is someone steps up next year and it isn't a newbie, great! But, I'm thinking we're more likely going to see a newbie or two step into scoring roles.
 
Originally posted by 5StarHawk:
I seriously doubt Uthoff plays the four. He thinks like a three, plays like a three. Why move your best player away from his best position? A coach's job is to put his players in situations where they can succeed. Uthoff can guard smaller guys and is a hard match up problem at the three. At the four, he is easier to guard and you give up your best offensive weapon. Plus, he may struggle guarding big strong power fours. You do not want him in foul trouble. He is only guy on team who can create shots. Jarrod also knows his future in pro ball is at the three, not the four.

Your points are logical, however it is a fallacy that if Uthoff plays the four that he won't be utilized on the perimeter. Ideally, yes I think his best position in the 3, however, he can guard opposing 4's and would be a nightmare matchup for many opposing 4's trying to guard him on the perimeter. The downside to this is that he is a very good perimeter defender and can block many jumpshots due to his length. Down low he can still be a good rebounder, but his length is neutralized by his lack of strength.

I think we will see Uthoff playing a lot of minutes at the 4 next year, but all that means is that he will be the 2nd tallest player on the floor and will guard opponent's 4's. He will still be running of screens and handling the ball on the perimeter.



As for the overall message in this thread:

I agree with DanL that all we really know is that we have a good group of core players returning. With Gesell, Clemmons, Jok, Uthoff, and Woodbury returning we know that this team will have a winning record and should compete for another NCAA berth.

Outside of that is a lot of unknowns. I happen to think we'll see a lot of progression from Uhl. He has many of the same skills as White -- I think he's as fast, about the same in terms of leaping ability, and is even a better ball handler than White. What Uhl hasn't shown, and what few players have ever shown, is White's instincts in playing the passing lanes, cutting to the basket, and finishing around the rim. I doubt we ever see Uhl repeat what White was able to do in those facets of the game, but he can still be a very good player as soon as next year because he has a lot of quality skills for someone of his size. The intincts will increase with experience.

I have little idea what to expect from Ellingson next year. He made 4 of 6 three pointers this year and is supposed to be a great outside shooter. I am not sure how he will compete athletically against better talent, but I don't see much that Oglesby offered this year that Ellingson can't offer next year. Hopefully at the very least he provides us a weapon with outside shooting. At best he can provide us a reliable scoring threat off the bench and a tough defender on the other end of the court. I think he can contribute next year, but it's very tough to tell how much he will factor.

It is really tough to know what to expect from freshmen. What I think we do know is that Hutton can instantly become a quality role player. His offensive game sounds like it needs polishing because he has not played much on the perimeter, but even if he doesn't provide much on the offensive end he will still be a guy that can finish in transition and provide great defense. He is touted as the best defender in his class, and even with a minimal contribution on the offensive end he can provide similar production as what Eric May did.

Fleming sounds like he might be the most college-ready player we have coming in, and he chose us over some quality schools (Florida, as one example). While he is not a high flyer, he is a big body that should be able to score in the paint as well as provide quality 3-point shooting. There seem to be a lot of similarities to Matt Gatens.

Moss seems to have the highest offensive ceiling of our incoming recruits. I don't know what to expect from him since I think we will look for our freshmen to be more role-players than players that carry the offense. Eventually I see him becoming perhaps the best player of the bunch in a few years, but next year other guys like Fleming or Hutton might get more minutes based on the unique skills they offer as potential role-players. I expect Moss to get quality minutes, but I am unsure of how big of a role he will play. If he's better than expected, maybe he could even push himself into the starting lineup. There is a wide-range of possibilties that I see with Moss.

I expect Wagner to provide similar minutes that Uhl did this year. He won't be asked to contribute much offensively other than cleaning up offensive rebounds and maybe score some transition points. He is very athletic and should offer good minutes as a post defender.

Williams is a potential redshirt candidate if we want him to be our PG of the future. I'm not a big fan of redshirtting in basketball though, and I would expect Williams to get some playing time next year as I think the experience, however minimal, will serve him well in the long run. He gives us another ball handler and a slashing option from the wing. He could probably play PG next year in a pinch, and I would expect him to be able to offer a quality perimeter defense with his long wing span.


I view the best case scenario to be a very high ceiling. Uthoff becomes an all-Big 10 performer (similar to White's progression from his junior to senior year). Woodbury finds his game and gives us 9 points and 8 rebounds per game and quality defensive minutes (close to 30 a game). Gesell recovers from his injuries to his shooting hand/elbow/arm and once again becomes a three-point threat and scores 12 points a game (similar scoring as Uthoff this year). Jok becomes much more efficient offensively and is a double digit scorer. Clemmons plays like he did to end the season and gives us 7 points per game and a good assist-to-turnover ratio. Uhl shows great improvement and becomes a good outside shooter (at least 33% from three) and can give us 6-8 points per game. Ellingson and the freshmen give us solid production as each find their role in contributing (Ellingson and Fleming provide outside shooting, Hutton provides outstanding defense, Moss provides an offensive spark of the bench, and Wagner provides rebounding/post defense). If all those things happen, this could legitimately be a top 10-15 team and we get a 3 or 4 seed.

Worst case scenario, we are a solid but unspectacular team. We have a winning record but we don't see much growth from our returning players and our freshman don't find their niche. We finish with a record similar to Minnesota and miss the NIT.
 
Too many unknowns with the players coming in.

Strictly based on the knowns, I'd say a slight step back is more likely than any improvement.

They certainly may still make the tourney; that doesn't seem wildly unreasonable.

With only Woodbury as a body inside I'm very concerned about how they'll manage in the paint. Teams can function just fine without a true center, but nobody that I see on Iowa's roster is a down low banger outside of Woodbury. On offense or defense.

Getting into that 5th or 6th place range in the B1G, making the dance again, maybe getting another win in the first game. Those would all make for a solid season with what the team looks to be. At least at this time.
 
What indications have you seen that the new recruits are going to come in and make nice contributions on this team? Fran's recruits are not typically difference makers their freshman season. I think Fran has done an good job getting this senior class to back-to-back NCAAs and winning a game; however, I see a small slide next season because the fire power they need is not on the team.
 
Re: Speaking honestly about 2015/16 (LONG and my usual style)
DesMoinesHawki posted on 3/23/2015...

Could have saved you a lot of time ... three words: National Invitation Tournament


Could not agree more.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Please don't do that to us.

He wouldn't want to take Gesell's job away anyways.
 
Originally posted by MTHawkeyes43:
What indications have you seen that the new recruits are going to come in and make nice contributions on this team? Fran's recruits are not typically difference makers their freshman season. I think Fran has done an good job getting this senior class to back-to-back NCAAs and winning a game; however, I see a small slide next season because the fire power they need is not on the team.

Basabe averaged 11 points and 7 rebounds as a freshman.

McCabe and Marble both played significant minutes and each averaged close to 6 points per game.

Aaron White averaged 11 points and 6 rebounds as a freshman.

Oglesby averaged over 6 points per game as a freshman.

Gesell averaged nearly 9 points per game as a freshman.

Woodbury started every game as a freshman.

Clemmons started about half the season as a freshman.

The past two seasons Jok and Uhl have not played a huge role as freshmen, but that is a luxury -- not an indictment.

Nobody is predicting any of the freshmen will average double digits next year, but if they can come in and serve as quality role players, we are going to have a pretty good team next year. I don't think that's expecting too much. For example, I think Hutton will instantly become our best perimeter defender which makes him a valuable player even if he only gives us 4 points per game. If Fleming and Moss can provide some timely outside shooting and help out against the press they will serve a valuable. role. Wagner has a similar game to Basabe and is a higher rated recruit than Basabe was, and if he can just provide us with 4 points and 4-5 rebounds per night he will be a valuable player off the bench.

If we were relying on our freshmen to carry the team, we'd be in trouble. But with Uthoff, Jok, Gesell, Woodbury, and Clemmons, we don't need to ask a lot from the freshmen in terms of offensive production.
 
Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by UIHawkGuy8:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Interesting, but you omitted Marcus Paige.

Rumor mill says if UNC is banned from post-season play, which seems likely, he'll play his final season with his old AAU buds in Iowa City. No sit-out year required.
Are you serious clark??? I have not heard/read this anywhere.
Am I serious that it's a rumor I heard? Yes. Am I seriously suggesting it will happen? No, I'm just relaying gossip, not making predictions one way or the other.

On the surface, it doesn't seem outlandish.

1. If the NCAA doesn't ban UNC, there will be an utter shitstorm. What they did goes to the heart of what the NCAA is supposed to be all about.

2. My understanding of the rule is that when this happens, juniors and seniors who weren't directly involved in the violations get a waiver from the NCAA that allows them to be immediately eligible at another school.

3. Paige played with Gesell and Woodbury and presumably had Iowa on his short list when he was originally recruited, although there's no doubt he always intended to go to Chapel Hill.

4. He would fill a gap on next year's Iowa team. Not as much as if he were 6-11, 265, but still a gap.

5. His alternatives would be to play for UNC his final year out of loyalty, knowing he wouldn't play in the post-season; go to the NBA, for which he probably isn't ready; or transfer somewhere else, which doesn't seem likely.
He is a projected lottery pick. He gone
 
"6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it.
But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth
worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we
shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will
bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again,
if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just
stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a
player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is
going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop
telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the
buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know."

It's too bad someone provides a link to a study but doesn't understand what the conclusion is saying (or rather what it's not saying). Per the study, "The study was able to demonstrate that there was no conclusive evidence that shows that if a player is highly ranked, they will help the team they compete on to appear in more NCAA tournament games, to win conference regular season championships, or to become conference tournament champions. At the very least this study reveals that while player rankings cannot predict success, there is a possibility that the rankings may be one of many factors that contribute to the success of an athletic team.

Also, there's this gem, "The study revealed in terms of a player's rankings and best NCAA tournament appearances, players in Q1 and Q2 made it further into the NCAA tournament. "

First off, no one has ever said recruiting top 150 players guarantees success. Coaching plays an important role as does luck. Mich had some terrible luck injury wise which hurt their chances this year. You also don't know the strength of the conference from one year to the next. Also, some top ranked players go pro before the college team can see the fruits of their labor. For example, Ricky Davis left Iowa after 1 year and the team didn't make the NCAA tournament. If Ricky stayed for more seasons he would have helped Iowa make the NCAA tournament. So, Ky have several players who will only give Calipari 1 NCAA appearance, but they were only at Ky one year. They also gave him an undefeated regular season and possible championship.

Still, none of this concludes that rankings don't matter. Of course they do. Say, Iowa had a team filled with players who ranked 35-50. To think this team would not have a more talented team than if their team was filled with players ranked 135-150 (or unranked) is just ridiculous. Would this roster of higher ranked players guarantee them more success in terms of conference championships, NCAA tournaments, etc? No. You don't know who would get hurt, who would transfer, etc. However, the chances of Fran having a more talented team (and therefore likely more success) with higher ranked players vs lower ranked players (or unranked players) is clear.


 
Originally posted by PhantomFlyer:
"6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it.
But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth
worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we
shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will
bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again,
if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just
stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a
player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is
going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop
telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the
buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know."

It's too bad someone provides a link to a study but doesn't understand what the conclusion is saying (or rather what it's not saying). Per the study, "The study was able to demonstrate that there was no conclusive evidence that shows that if a player is highly ranked, they will help the team they compete on to appear in more NCAA tournament games, to win conference regular season championships, or to become conference tournament champions. At the very least this study reveals that while player rankings cannot predict success, there is a possibility that the rankings may be one of many factors that contribute to the success of an athletic team.

Also, there's this gem, "The study revealed in terms of a player's rankings and best NCAA tournament appearances, players in Q1 and Q2 made it further into the NCAA tournament. "

First off, no one has ever said recruiting top 150 players guarantees success. Coaching plays an important role as does luck. Mich had some terrible luck injury wise which hurt their chances this year. You also don't know the strength of the conference from one year to the next. Also, some top ranked players go pro before the college team can see the fruits of their labor. For example, Ricky Davis left Iowa after 1 year and the team didn't make the NCAA tournament. If Ricky stayed for more seasons he would have helped Iowa make the NCAA tournament. So, Ky have several players who will only give Calipari 1 NCAA appearance, but they were only at Ky one year. They also gave him an undefeated regular season and possible championship.

Still, none of this concludes that rankings don't matter. Of course they do. Say, Iowa had a team filled with players who ranked 35-50. To think this team would not have a more talented team than if their team was filled with players ranked 135-150 (or unranked) is just ridiculous. Would this roster of higher ranked players guarantee them more success in terms of conference championships, NCAA tournaments, etc? No. You don't know who would get hurt, who would transfer, etc. However, the chances of Fran having a more talented team (and therefore likely more success) with higher ranked players vs lower ranked players (or unranked players) is clear.



People need to read the link for themselves. If they don't, you may be able to cut out a few parts and fool them. If they do, they will know what a sham you are.

How do like that, if enough people are too lazy to read the study and believe you...you may be King of Fools. Or, The Joker.
laugh.r191677.gif
 
Originally posted by DanL53:
Originally posted by PhantomFlyer:
"6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it.
But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth
worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we
shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will
bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again,
if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just
stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a
player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is
going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop
telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the
buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know."

It's too bad someone provides a link to a study but doesn't understand what the conclusion is saying (or rather what it's not saying). Per the study, "The study was able to demonstrate that there was no conclusive evidence that shows that if a player is highly ranked, they will help the team they compete on to appear in more NCAA tournament games, to win conference regular season championships, or to become conference tournament champions. At the very least this study reveals that while player rankings cannot predict success, there is a possibility that the rankings may be one of many factors that contribute to the success of an athletic team.

Also, there's this gem, "The study revealed in terms of a player's rankings and best NCAA tournament appearances, players in Q1 and Q2 made it further into the NCAA tournament. "

First off, no one has ever said recruiting top 150 players guarantees success. Coaching plays an important role as does luck. Mich had some terrible luck injury wise which hurt their chances this year. You also don't know the strength of the conference from one year to the next. Also, some top ranked players go pro before the college team can see the fruits of their labor. For example, Ricky Davis left Iowa after 1 year and the team didn't make the NCAA tournament. If Ricky stayed for more seasons he would have helped Iowa make the NCAA tournament. So, Ky have several players who will only give Calipari 1 NCAA appearance, but they were only at Ky one year. They also gave him an undefeated regular season and possible championship.

Still, none of this concludes that rankings don't matter. Of course they do. Say, Iowa had a team filled with players who ranked 35-50. To think this team would not have a more talented team than if their team was filled with players ranked 135-150 (or unranked) is just ridiculous. Would this roster of higher ranked players guarantee them more success in terms of conference championships, NCAA tournaments, etc? No. You don't know who would get hurt, who would transfer, etc. However, the chances of Fran having a more talented team (and therefore likely more success) with higher ranked players vs lower ranked players (or unranked players) is clear.



People need to read the link for themselves. If they don't, you may be able to cut out a few parts and fool them. If they do, they will know what a sham you are.

How do like that, if enough people are too lazy to read the study and believe you...you may be King of Fools. Or, The Joker.
laugh.r191677.gif
LOL. Yes, they need to read it for themselves, because they won't get the truth from you. You have problems spreading lies. Sad, you don't even understand what the "conclusion" of your study said. It's not surprising you don't understand what the study is saying, but it is sad you don't understand.

You write a thousand words and you say nothing. Amazing.

You need to take another self imposed sabbatical from the basketball board.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to try to help you out. Read pages 30-31 of the study. They even have a nice graph to help you so you don't have to digest words. Look at the downward trend in player efficiency from Q1 to Q4. "Rankings don't matter".
roll.r191677.gif

This post was edited on 3/23 7:32 PM by PhantomFlyer
 
I'm really looking forward to the non-conference games next season. 4-5 new players auditioning for time. I think Ellingson might surprise. Should be an exiting year. Too early to forecast W-L. However, with 4 experienced seniors returning, I'm expecting another NCAA invite.
 
Originally posted by nu2u:

I'm really looking forward to the non-conference games next season. 4-5 new players auditioning for time. I think Ellingson might surprise. Should be an exiting year. Too early to forecast W-L. However, with 4 experienced seniors returning, I'm expecting another NCAA invite.
I think you are right about Brady. He already knows the offense, has played in a few games and man, he shoots the rock! He might be good for a couple of threes per game, or even more. He is probably quicker than Oglesby too.
 
Originally posted by hooper56:

Originally posted by nu2u:

I'm really looking forward to the non-conference games next season. 4-5 new players auditioning for time. I think Ellingson might surprise. Should be an exiting year. Too early to forecast W-L. However, with 4 experienced seniors returning, I'm expecting another NCAA invite.
I think you are right about Brady. He already knows the offense, has played in a few games and man, he shoots the rock! He might be good for a couple of threes per game, or even more. He is probably quicker than Oglesby too.
We didn't see enough of him to determine how good he will be but he does have a nice shooting stroke. He looks like a shooter.
 
Originally posted by PhantomFlyer:

Originally posted by DanL53:

Originally posted by PhantomFlyer:
"6) The new guys. A link. Study this, or believe it.
But we can drop the crud about whether we are the tenth best or fifth
worst recruiting class, or whatever our proof is by the bubbles when we
shake it. The good/bad news is nobody really knows what recruits will
bring until they bring it.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1013&context=cps_professional (This was originally found and linked by ICan'tfindausenamethatisnottaken.)

Again,
if you don't at least read the conclusion to this study, please just
stop posting about rankings If all you do is search the name of a
player to count stars? Don't begin to think you can say which kid is
going to be better for Iowa. And by the way, you should probably stop
telling people you are a good cook just because you figured out the
buttons on the microwave.
ohwell.r191677.gif


So with that stirring admonition to the in a hurry to know crowd, here is whatever is left that we MIGHT know."

It's too bad someone provides a link to a study but doesn't understand what the conclusion is saying (or rather what it's not saying). Per the study, "The study was able to demonstrate that there was no conclusive evidence that shows that if a player is highly ranked, they will help the team they compete on to appear in more NCAA tournament games, to win conference regular season championships, or to become conference tournament champions. At the very least this study reveals that while player rankings cannot predict success, there is a possibility that the rankings may be one of many factors that contribute to the success of an athletic team.

Also, there's this gem, "The study revealed in terms of a player's rankings and best NCAA tournament appearances, players in Q1 and Q2 made it further into the NCAA tournament. "

First off, no one has ever said recruiting top 150 players guarantees success. Coaching plays an important role as does luck. Mich had some terrible luck injury wise which hurt their chances this year. You also don't know the strength of the conference from one year to the next. Also, some top ranked players go pro before the college team can see the fruits of their labor. For example, Ricky Davis left Iowa after 1 year and the team didn't make the NCAA tournament. If Ricky stayed for more seasons he would have helped Iowa make the NCAA tournament. So, Ky have several players who will only give Calipari 1 NCAA appearance, but they were only at Ky one year. They also gave him an undefeated regular season and possible championship.

Still, none of this concludes that rankings don't matter. Of course they do. Say, Iowa had a team filled with players who ranked 35-50. To think this team would not have a more talented team than if their team was filled with players ranked 135-150 (or unranked) is just ridiculous. Would this roster of higher ranked players guarantee them more success in terms of conference championships, NCAA tournaments, etc? No. You don't know who would get hurt, who would transfer, etc. However, the chances of Fran having a more talented team (and therefore likely more success) with higher ranked players vs lower ranked players (or unranked players) is clear.





People need to read the link for themselves. If they don't, you may be able to cut out a few parts and fool them. If they do, they will know what a sham you are.

How do like that, if enough people are too lazy to read the study and believe you...you may be King of Fools. Or, The Joker.
laugh.r191677.gif
LOL. Yes, they need to read it for themselves, because they won't get the truth from you. You have problems spreading lies. Sad, you don't even understand what the "conclusion" of your study said. It's not surprising you don't understand what the study is saying, but it is sad you don't understand.

You write a thousand words and you say nothing. Amazing.

You need to take another self imposed sabbatical from the basketball board.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to try to help you out. Read pages 30-31 of the study. They even have a nice graph to help you so you don't have to digest words. Look at the downward trend in player efficiency from Q1 to Q4. "Rankings don't matter".
roll.r191677.gif


This post was edited on 3/23 7:32 PM by PhantomFlyer


People just need to read the study. Let them get their own answers to what the player efficiency rankings meant in terms of team success.
 
Uthoff does not realistically "replace" what we lost in White. Uthoff can be a star in his own right next year, and he might, but he doesn't bring the physical interior play, the all over the court defense, and, most importantly the free throwing/ foul generating game. What we need is for Uthoff to be the best he can be, and again he has shown that his upside could be big next year.I'm willing to go so far as to predict that Uthoff will score more that White did this year and come close in rebounds.

Good point on player development. Back to back 3 stars to first team ABT and another 3rd teamer this year bespeak good player development. Gatens was second team wasn't he? While just assuming that the Hawks will be great is idolatry, assuming that the three big recruits and Clemmons won't experience some of that major development next year is irrational pessimism. Woodbury and Gesell and Uthoff were big recruits. They have all improved every season, Clemmons took a big step backwards but he bounced back with really;nice year in 2015,

Uhl needs to contribute like Wade Lookingbill. A good role playing starter that knows the other starters are getting the points. But a taller and more athletic Wade Lookingbill could be all that Iowa needs to be a 10-12 conference win. Uhl could be that player

There's also no reason to assume that none of the new comers can make significant contributions to a good team. The one most needed is Wagner because Hawks are otherwise small and very much not physical. But it isn't irrational to fear that all of those recruiting analysts are right either. It appears to be a class of four burners and shooter, a big athletic forward that's raw to the game.I'm probably not thinking one or two are going to get virtually no time. If McCaffery wants this 6'6" Williams as a point guard he'll have two pretty good teachers as well as the coaches,

You can go two big three small if your bigs are Hansen/Bruner.

Cannot wait to see how this plays out. The Hawks now know it can be done and what it takes to get it done. The seven or eight bottom guys on the deep bench are going to fight for playing time.
 
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