Speaking of Michael Jackson

[alaskanseminole]

I've discussed this ad naseum before and really am on this fence. The Martin Bashir interviews were heavily edited and showed exactly what he wanted it to show. Maury Povich aired a follow-up piece that showed the cut footage which had Bashir contradicting himself often. Furthermore, big stars like Macaulay Culkin, Corey Feldmen, Alfonso Ribeiro and many others have always spoke out on his behalf...those who accused him were nobodies. Heck, in the People v. Jackson (iirc) the father of the alleged victim turned out to be a scammer looking for money from famous people...was caught on audio tape. ...I just don't know.

I feel like his behavior was inappropriate, but not sinister or perverse...for example allowing kids to sleep in his bed (which isn't what you'd think since his bedroom was the size of poors entire house). In his view, you give your guests the best room in the house and he often slept elsewhere. When I watched the Bashir and Povich interviews, I see a grown man acting like a child..climbing trees and crap. When I watch the making of This is It, I see a person who truly cares about people...very kind. What say you? Some people think the way I do, while others are 100% convinced he was a monster.

 

[noleit]

OP's mom likes to pet my monkey.

 

[HawkOptimist]

I tend to think he was an extremely caring individual with a screwed up childhood who carried a lot of those issues into adulthood ... which ultimately killed him. I think he truly cared about the well being of kids and people in general, but who knows if it was anything beyond that. I’d like to think not, but who knows.

I do know I love his music. Thriller came out when I was 8, and to this day I consider it my all-time favorite album. The man had talent like few of us will ever see again.

 

[alaskanseminole]

OP's mom likes to pet my monkey.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I tend to think he was an extremely caring individual with a screwed up childhood who carried a lot of those issues into adulthood ... which ultimately killed him. I think he truly cared about the well being of kids and people in general, but who knows if it was anything beyond that. I’d like to think not, but who knows.

I do know I love his music. Thriller came out when I was 8, and to this day I consider it my all-time favorite album. The man had talent like few of us will ever see again.

Those are my thoughts as well. My middle child (17) is a HUGE MJ fan...posters, old concert shirts, vinyl records, books, etc.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

It has been well established that in many ways Michael significantly had the mind of a child, not in all aspects of his life, but very much in his behavior. Likely stemming from the abuse he suffered from his dad and not having an actual childhood thanks to being in the Jackson 5. He went from that abuse to being the biggest star in the world that could have anything he wanted.

One of the theories is that he wasn’t a predator towards children. He very much wanted every child to have fun in life and offered many to stay with him at his house so that they could enjoy the amusement park, the animals, the massive arcade in his basement, and have a “sleepover” because that’s what kids do. The theory is that on the sleepover portion Michael acted like a child and did what he thought children would do. In the vein of “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.”

So, he may likely have done inappropriate things being that he was an adult with children. But he may not have done them with the same intent that the creepy guy with the van with no windows does. Does that make it excusable? No. Does that make him an evil person? I don’t think that is an easy determination to make as he’s somewhere in the middle.

 

[alaskanseminole]

So, he may likely have done inappropriate things being that he was an adult with children. But he may not have done them with the same intent that the creepy guy with the van with no windows does. Does that make it excusable? No. Does that make him an evil person? I don’t think that is an easy determination to make as he’s somewhere in the middle.

This is what I meant by inappropriate, but not sinister or predatorial. ...someone needed to sit him down and say, "Now Michael, you're an adult, whether you want to be or not, and you just can't do those things. Sadly, your childhood is over."

 

[TJ8869]

MJ never had anything even remotely resembling a normal life. He was abused as a child and he became a megastar long before he was old enough to process that and deal with it from a normal frame of reference.

I don’t know if MJ was a sexual predator. I don’t know if he molested any children. I don’t know if the allegations against him were motivated by a desire for money.

But I do know that he admitted in a nationally televised interview that he liked to let young boys sleep in his bed with him. And that is creepy as f**k.

 

[alaskanseminole]

But I do know that he admitted in a nationally televised interview that he liked to let young boys sleep in his bed with him. And that is creepy as f**k.

Sad? Yes.
Creepy? Yes.
Evil? Nope.

 

[TJ8869]

Sad? Yes.
Creepy? Yes.
Evil? Nope.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what happened in that bed. It’s possible that nothing evil happened. But when your behavior deviates so far from what is considered normal and you put yourself in a situation where something evil could very easily happen, it’s natural that a certain percentage of people are going to assume something evil did happen.

 

[Kozisek]

No matter what you think about MJ the man, MJ the entertainer was and always will be the King of Pop.

 

[Mattski]

Wasnt there was physical or testimonial evidence that he put alcohol in kids drinks to get them drunk?
Who knows how far things with MJ and kids went but it definitely crossed the line of what is and isnt appropriate.

 

[Raglefant]

JFC the idolatry towards the rich and famous in this world is unbelievable.

 

[alaskanseminole]

JFC the idolatry towards the rich and famous in this world is unbelievable.

So was that a yes or no answer?

 

[Raglefant]

So was that a yes or no answer?

You have deemed Jackson's behavior NOT evil, sinister, or predatorial... even in the context that he "played" with children in the vain of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" and giving children alcohol and having them sleep over in his big bedroom unsupervised.

If a poor man living in a van down by the river did identical things, would you give him the same benefit of the doubt? Your conclusions are driven by his talent, fame, and wealth. It's almost subconscious at this point in our society... and it's beyond disturbing.

 

[alaskanseminole]

You have deemed Jackson's behavior NOT evil, sinister, or predatorial... even in the context that he "played" with children in the vain of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" and giving children alcohol and having them sleep over in his big bedroom unsupervised.

I had never read anything about "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" until this thread...only read about bed sharing and yes it's extremely possible, that while inappropriate for a "normal" adult, that this behavior was non-sexual in nature.

...this discussion is more about is it possible for someone to do inappropriate things, but w/o evil intentions. There's a reason people are curious about this...it was obvious something was off about MJ...unlike Cosby who's fame didn't save him once the world found out he was a monster.

If a poor man living in a van down by the river did identical things, would you give him the same benefit of the doubt? Your conclusions are driven by his talent, fame, and wealth. It's almost subconscious at this point in our society... and it's beyond disturbing.

That's not completely accurate...it's because of his fame we know about him. It's kinda like the country mourning more when a famous person dies, then say a fire fighter in your community. One is simply known better by the general population. As for MJ, it's likely his "fame" was a significant, contributing factor to his mental stability. It's clear he was not normal...he certainly didn't see the same thing in the mirror everyone else did. ...the van guy? he's likely an unknown who wouldn't get the same benefit of the doubt. Hell, look at OJ and the benefit of the doubt he was given.

I get what you're saying though.

 

[hawkeye54545]

I don't know whether MJ abused children or not. What I do know is I question the parental ability of anyone who let their child be part of that weirdness. I feel like parents probably failed their children over money.

 

[TJ8869]

I don't know whether MJ abused children or not. What I do know is I question the parental ability of anyone who let their child be part of that weirdness. I feel like parents probably failed their children over money.

And for what it’s worth I don’t listen to their music either.

 

[hawkedoff]

The test is what your reaction would be if the same thing happened to your child regardless of whom the adult involved is on the whole rich and powerful scale.

If your elementary school child was sleeping in the same bed as an adult male what would be your reaction?

That the adult is Michael Jackson explains why he isn't in jail....bit he probably should have been

 

[Rustys Dad]

I tend to think he was an extremely caring individual with a screwed up childhood who carried a lot of those issues into adulthood ... which ultimately killed him. I think he truly cared about the well being of kids and people in general, but who knows if it was anything beyond that. I’d like to think not, but who knows.

I do know I love his music. Thriller came out when I was 8, and to this day I consider it my all-time favorite album. The man had talent like few of us will ever see again.

Could not have written it any better myself ...

 

[FSUTribe76]

I've discussed this ad naseum before and really am on this fence. The Martin Bashir interviews were heavily edited and showed exactly what he wanted it to show. Maury Povich aired a follow-up piece that showed the cut footage which had Bashir contradicting himself often. Furthermore, big stars like Macaulay Culkin, Corey Feldmen, Alfonso Ribeiro and many others have always spoke out on his behalf...those who accused him were nobodies. Heck, in the People v. Jackson (iirc) the father of the alleged victim turned out to be a scammer looking for money from famous people...was caught on audio tape. ...I just don't know.

I feel like his behavior was inappropriate, but not sinister or perverse...for example allowing kids to sleep in his bed (which isn't what you'd think since his bedroom was the size of poors entire house). In his view, you give your guests the best room in the house and he often slept elsewhere. When I watched the Bashir and Povich interviews, I see a grown man acting like a child..climbing trees and crap. When I watch the making of This is It, I see a person who truly cares about people...very kind. What say you? Some people think the way I do, while others are 100% convinced he was a monster.

Corey Feldman would have turned on MJ in a heartbeat if there had been anything to the rumours, so I don’t believe MJ ever raped a kid. I do believe he wasn’t psychologically stable and regressed himself somewhat back to a kiddie stage so I don’t think he’s anywhere near “normal”. And that weirdness makes the accusations very easy to toss at him. But he seems to have gotten quite a bit of lady action in his Studio 54 days and his later relationships while odd are no weirder than someone like Ted Turner who keeps several paid concubines or Drumpf with his pretend trophy wives while banging porn stars into his 70s (and probably banging underage hookers as well since he went several times to his pedophile friends island of pedophilia).

 

[DanC78]

Corey Feldman would have outed him when he outed Hollywood...no??

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Rumors are his dad had him chemically castrated to preserve his voice.

most people that do horrific things had bad childhoods.

 

[IAFB2021Champs]

A day late but it’s crazy to me it’s been 15 years already since he left this world.
Pretty sure he was a terrible human being, his parents probably caused it. But damn that man could perform.