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Speaking of OJ... Any of you midwestern folks believe Steven Avery is guilty?

strummingram

strummingram

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Oct 1, 2010
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I'm watching the Making A Murderer series again. The first time I watched it, I was appalled. Then the follow-up with Kathleen Zellner.

I wouldn't live in Manitowoc, County Wisconsin if you gave me the county itself. There are some corrupt, criminal mutherfvckers up there. I know they're everywhere. However, I don't know how that entire county and state can sit back and allow the law enforcement and judicial system railroad and ruin people's lives so blatantly.

Convince me that Steven Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey tortured, raped, murdered and burned Teresa Halbach.
 
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I'm not convinced of Averys innocence. I am convinced of his nephew's and the real criminals in this shitshow are those investigating and prosecuting them.
 
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ghost80 said:
I'm not convinced of Averys innocence. I am convinced of his nephew's and the real criminals in this shitshow is those investigating and prosecuting them.
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I don't understand how LEO's and prosecutors can live with themselves. They're just as much of a criminal as anyone serving time.
 
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HROT is the only place I’ve ever heard of him and I don’t even know the story at all.

#iknowiliveunderarockandilikeithere
 
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I had a case against Manitowoc Cranes and had to go up there a few times. Interesting town. The brew pup by the court House was pretty good and the submarine museum was interesting.
 
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ghost80 said:
I'm not convinced of Averys innocence. I am convinced of his nephew's and the real criminals in this shitshow are those investigating and prosecuting them.
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You think Steven Avery tortured, raped and viciously murdered Halbach?
 
ghost80 said:
There is absolute reasonable doubt. Between their incompetence and trying to frame him, the police created a mountain of reasonable doubt.
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The police officer who found the vehicle was definitely involved in moving it on to Avery’s property.

I agree with the theory that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych did it and covered it up by framing Avery. Brendan just got caught up in it because he was very stupid and went along with the story that police wanted him to tell.
 
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There are still some doubts but I do think Avery killed her but I think the nephew is innocent. I think the police planted some evidence to make sure he was put away but I do think he killed her.
 
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strummingram said:
You think Steven Avery tortured, raped and viciously murdered Halbach?
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I'm not convinced of his innocence but that isn't what matters. They have to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....and that they failed in my eyes.

Might be hard to understand my point but there is a difference.

The nephew on the other hand was clearly railroaded. It should be criminal what they were allowed to do to him.
 
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ghost80 said:
I'm not convinced of his innocence but that isn't what matters. They have to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt....and that they failed in my eyes.

Might be hard to understand my point but there is a difference.

The nephew on the other hand was clearly railroaded. It should be criminal what they were allowed to do to him.
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And, these LEO's and state representatives just get away with it... TWICE!
 
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Read about the case outside of the Netflix documentary. There are key pieces of circumstantial evidence indicating Steven Avery was the killer, that the documentary left out or barely mentioned.

Her phone and camera were found just feet from Avery’s door in a burn pit (two eyewitnesses claimed they saw him put them in there); leg irons and cuffs were found in his trailer (he purchased them 3 weeks before the murder); he drew pictures of a torture chamber while in prison; cell phone records indicated Avery called her directly three times that day; he also called Auto trader using a fake name to specifically request her to meet him at his trailer; Halbach had been there earlier in the month and refused to go back after he answered the door wearing only a towel (she said she was scared of him); forensic testing linked Avery’s rifle to the bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it; Avery’s blood was found in six places in the car not just the ignition, including the seats and a CD case (sweat DNA was also under the hood);

That said, there is no evidence linking Dassey to the crime and his confession was clearly coerced—his Mom did allow investigators to interview him, however. As for the Ed Edwards serial killer conspiracy theory, at the time he was over 300 pounds and 72 years old with failing health. No way he abducted her in broad daylight and planted all the evidence framing Avery.
 
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JohnBasedow said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but the forensic analysis on the bullet was highly questionable.
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It was questionable. There were allegations that the forensic analyst contaminated the sample during testing. Sadly, contamination is common as crime labs are notoriously underfunded and suspect.
 
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I spent a few days in Manitowoc for work. A bunch of us went to a nice establishment called Gold Diggers. The most liberal touching policies I have ever seen in a place of erotic entertainment
 
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It’s a shame they never knew of Carole Baskin at the time or they could have used her as the alternate theory for the Murderer.

To me it’s ridiculous. The COP FOUND THE CAR ON THE ROAD. He read the license plate to the dispatch. Then they found the car in a completely different place hidden on Avery’s land. What a joke. A sad sad joke. Those people all deserve to die horrible deaths.
 
Fluffles said:
Read about the case outside of the Netflix documentary. There are key pieces of circumstantial evidence indicating Steven Avery was the killer, that the documentary left out or barely mentioned.

Her phone and camera were found just feet from Avery’s door in a burn pit (two eyewitnesses claimed they saw him put them in there); leg irons and cuffs were found in his trailer (he purchased them 3 weeks before the murder); he drew pictures of a torture chamber while in prison; cell phone records indicated Avery called her directly three times that day; he also called Auto trader using a fake name to specifically request her to meet him at his trailer; Halbach had been there earlier in the month and refused to go back after he answered the door wearing only a towel (she said she was scared of him); forensic testing linked Avery’s rifle to the bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it; Avery’s blood was found in six places in the car not just the ignition, including the seats and a CD case (sweat DNA was also under the hood);

That said, there is no evidence linking Dassey to the crime and his confession was clearly coerced—his Mom did allow investigators to interview him, however. As for the Ed Edwards serial killer conspiracy theory, at the time he was over 300 pounds and 72 years old with failing health. No way he abducted her in broad daylight and planted all the evidence framing Avery.
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How was there no blood found in his trailer or garage? That is the part that got me.


I can’t say he is innocent or guilty but there was 100% for sure reasonable doubt I felt.
 
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ironside1 said:
How was there no blood found in his trailer or garage? That is the part that got me.


I can’t say he is innocent or guilty but there was 100% for sure reasonable doubt I felt.
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The key they miraculously “found,” after 3-4 other searches, to me, is the most damning evidence supporting the theory he was framed. Especially when it was Lt. James Lenk who found the key (he was deposed for the previous wrongful conviction suit just a few weeks prior). The Manitowoc sheriff department wasn’t supposed to be involved in doing the search but he showed up anyway and “discovered” the key.
 
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I almost wanna go up there and look at some of these obvious liars, face-to-face, and ask "how can you sear your conscience and lie and condemn an innocent person? Is it a prolonged process, or do you just do it instantaneously?"
 
ironside1 said:
How was there no blood found in his trailer or garage? That is the part that got me.


I can’t say he is innocent or guilty but there was 100% for sure reasonable doubt I felt.
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There was SO MUCH "reasonable doubt" that it was overwhelming. If they can do that to Avery, I would be moving out of that county, if I lived there. I'd get out of the whole fvcking state of Wisconsin!
 
He may of killed her, but no way he killed her in the manner the state said he did, they tampered to make sure he went away. Didn't they supposedly cut her throat and shoot her? Yet no blood evidence in the trailer or garage?
 
pezhawk said:
He may of killed her, but no way he killed her in the manner the state said he did, they tampered to make sure he went away. Didn't they supposedly cut her throat and shoot her? Yet no blood evidence in the trailer or garage?
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The prosecution totally fabricated the actual murder!
 
Idk if he’s innocent, but there’s no way those morons could have cleaned up all that blood where she was supposedly killed, And then be dumb enough to leave a key in plain sight, (conveniently found by the one cop not supposed to be there after numerous other searches) and barely hide a car they would obviously be looking for. When they have access to a crusher.


Three things they can’t convince me of is the key and car weren’t planted, why the blood vile had a pinhole in it, and why the cop read her plates off .


It’s so obvious the evidence is planted I can’t believe a judge would go along with it.
 
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It wasn’t that long ago that people actually believed that cops told the truth.
 
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brownd7949hawks said:
Idk if he’s innocent, but there’s no way those morons could have cleaned up all that blood where she was supposedly killed, And then be dumb enough to leave a key in plain sight, (conveniently found by the one cop not supposed to be there after numerous other searches) and barely hide a car they would obviously be looking for. When they have access to a crusher.


Three things they can’t convince me of is the key and car weren’t planted, why the blood vile had a pinhole in it, and why the cop read her plates off .


It’s so obvious the evidence is planted I can’t believe a judge would go along with it.
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A lot of money was at stake... not to mention their "reputations."
 
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FAUlty Gator said:
It’s a shame they never knew of Carole Baskin at the time or they could have used her as the alternate theory for the Murderer.

To me it’s ridiculous. The COP FOUND THE CAR ON THE ROAD. He read the license plate to the dispatch. Then they found the car in a completely different place hidden on Avery’s land. What a joke. A sad sad joke. Those people all deserve to die horrible deaths.
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its been several years, but I actually think this was badly underrepresented in the show. I mean that was straightforward lying from the cops. That said I still think Avery did it.
 
L. Wade Childress said:
its been several years, but I actually think this was badly underrepresented in the show. I mean that was straightforward lying from the cops. That said I still think Avery did it.
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You think Avery did what, exactly?

The story of the demise of Theresa Halbach that the prosecution fabricated was pretty outlandish. If what they described actually happened, there would be so much blood everywhere, it would have been impossible to get rid of it.
 
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Two questions - without Dassey, do they have Avery?

is Dassey screwed? No more available actions?

there are some other good documentaries on Netflix. One is the confession tapes and the other is the innocence project. It is really, really difficult to overturn a conviction. I can’t imagine a worst thing in life than to be convicted for something you didn’t do.
 
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