Stop blaming the ref

[crablegs1]

I can't believe the excuses out of he posters on this board. We got our butts handed to us by a better team yesterday. We are going to get them kicked again on Friday. John Smith had his guys ready to go against us and they outwrestled us in the majority of matches.

Stoll needs to get some offense. If pushing is the only set up he has, expect no AA from him this year.

Clark needs to be able to ride out a tired freshman for 30 seconds in the 3rd to win that match.

Collins has Sorenson figured out. If Sorenson isn't going to get any attempts off, then Collins knows he doesn't need to either. And if he can get out that quickly he's going to win those matches.

 

[Gobblin]

Who's Collins?

 

[neversurrender]

Who's Collins?

Phil? I always thought he was pretty solid, he hasn't put out a new album in a few years though is he making a comeback?

 

[redghost1974]

If Sorenson doesn't get some kind offense together you are right, he will not make the finals, let alone have a pray to win it all. There is no excuse for any of our wrestlers to leave the first period with no points. That is one of the biggest disappointments since Brands is coach, to many zero first periods. I know he is not ok with it, don't know how that is happening.

 

[pablow]

I can't believe the excuses out of he posters on this board. We got our butts handed to us by a better team yesterday. We are going to get them kicked again on Friday. John Smith had his guys ready to go against us and they outwrestled us in the majority of matches.

Stoll needs to get some offense. If pushing is the only set up he has, expect no AA from him this year.

Clark needs to be able to ride out a tired freshman for 30 seconds in the 3rd to win that match.

Collins has Sorenson figured out. If Sorenson isn't going to get any attempts off, then Collins knows he doesn't need to either. And if he can get out that quickly he's going to win those matches.

Really?

 

[pablow]

Who's Collins?

My grandmother Janet.

 

[pumpdog20]

They just need to go out and wrestle like they have been since they were 5 years old. One thing that I do think Brands can take some blame for during his years is (possibly) adjusting his wrestler's mindset after a loss. It seems when they lose, they have to "be smarter" and somehow that has been received as take less risks.

Look at guys like Nolf, Nickal, or Ian Miller. All guys who get after it all the time, and have lost big matches because of it too. That never swayed them from being who they are. Point being, you can win or lose by being aggressive and conservative, you might as well give yourself the best chance. Every guy in the lineup is capable of putting up big points. They're also capable of getting back points they might have given up due to a scramble or something.

 

[LaxHawk174]

The ref had no impact on the outcome of any matches except Clark's, For more than 1 reason: the phantom TD, blatant stalling by brock not called (Clark gets rear standing Brock takes 4-5 steps straight out of bounds and does a little roll straight out of bounds when they hit the edge? Lol.), and the PD call... Gunther was allowed to have his shoulder ripped out in the SAME position for a whole period. We lost the dual fair and square though other than Clarks match.

Collica seems to have the same game plan when he feels like he is against a better wrestler. He used the same 100 face slap/eye poke strategy against Retherford last year. Sorensens gotta get his takedown and not be content to play pattycake with Collica. If it comes down to who gets more RT in the OT rideouts then its just a coinflip.

 

[CP84]

The ref had no impact on the outcome of any matches except Clark's, For more than 1 reason: the phantom TD, blatant stalling by brock not called (Clark gets rear standing Brock takes 4-5 steps straight out of bounds and does a little roll straight out of bounds when they hit the edge? Lol.), and the PD call... Gunther was allowed to have his shoulder ripped out in the SAME position for a whole period. We lost the dual fair and square though other than Clarks match.

Collica seems to have the same game plan when he feels like he is against a better wrestler. He used the same 100 face slap/eye poke strategy against Retherford last year. Sorensens gotta get his takedown and not be content to play pattycake with Collica. If it comes down to who gets more RT in the OT rideouts then its just a coinflip.

I disagree. He had an impact in Brooks' match when they failed to see a clear fall that was stacked for at least 2 seconds.

 

[Azchief32]

I can't believe the excuses out of he posters on this board. We got our butts handed to us by a better team yesterday. We are going to get them kicked again on Friday. John Smith had his guys ready to go against us and they outwrestled us in the majority of matches.

Stoll needs to get some offense. If pushing is the only set up he has, expect no AA from him this year.

Clark needs to be able to ride out a tired freshman for 30 seconds in the 3rd to win that match.

Collins has Sorenson figured out. If Sorenson isn't going to get any attempts off, then Collins knows he doesn't need to either. And if he can get out that quickly he's going to win those matches.

"Collins" does not have Sorensen figured out...Sorensen has been the initiator of scores in their matches...watch "Grapple" and Sorensen had the only legit attempt of the match yesterday . When Sorensen does, he wins. When he doesn't, than he leaves it to the whims of OT and the ref in a TShirt like match. Collins figured him out...lmao.

Ref sucked yesterday...wouldn't have changed the team outcome but certainly some matches.

Starting a thread to lecture people not to complain about the ref...
Old Chinese proverb: Man who pisses in the wind gets boots wet

 

[CP84]

"Collins" does not have Sorensen figured out...Sorensen has been the initiator of scores in their matches...watch "Grapple" and Sorensen had the only legit attempt of the match yesterday . When Sorensen does, he wins. When he doesn't, than he leaves it to the whims of OT and the ref in a TShirt like match. Collins figured him out...lmao.

Ref sucked yesterday...wouldn't have changed the team outcome but certainly some matches.

Starting a thread to lecture people not to complain about the ref...
Old Chinese proverb: Man who pisses in the wind gets boots wet

Stallica wanted no part of wrestling yesterday. The FCS announcer were arguing that he was pushing the action. I suppose if knee taps and face slaps are offense then they might be right. As far as I saw, BS took the only legitimate shot.

That said, BS needs to push the action. It should be easy to get stall calls against Stallica. I don't see Stallica scoring a TD against BS so BS needs to force him to either give up a stalling point or force him to take some shots that can be countered. BS wrestled this match not to lose. I don't think he'll make that mistake twice. Now let's just hope Stallica beats Mayes later this month so that BS doesn't get shafted into the #4 seed.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I disagree. He had an impact in Brooks' match when they failed to see a clear fall that was stacked for at least 2 seconds.

Yes, but not on the outcome of the match, Brooks still won. Thats what i meant by that statement. There were many examples of poor officiating in the dual, Brooks' no-pin just another on the long list. But the Clark match was the only one where the poor officiating caused the lesser wrestler to win.

 

[CP84]

Yes, but not on the outcome of the match, Brooks still won. Thats what i meant by that statement. There were many examples of poor officiating in the dual, Brooks' no-pin just another on the long list. But the Clark match was the only one where the poor officiating caused the lesser wrestler to win.

I think we can still blame the poor officiating and accept the results of the other matches. The outcome of the dual and the poor officiating in a couple matches are not mutually exclusive. That said, the poor officiating in the Clark match could impact seeding in March so it is noteworthy.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

Didnt get to see this match but I know when Sorensen shoots he scores. My old coach said You have to beat your opponent and the ref.If you beat him bad enough bad calls wont matter. That being said I'm old enough to know that in every profession their are immoral people. It's sad but always possible that a ref. has and agenda. Blaming the ref. wont help, you have to overcome it.
It's not wrong though to point out an injustice. I,ve seen enough small town sports to know some people(refs. and umpires included) are just rotten and have no conscience.

 

[crablegs1]

The takedown call was bad in Clark's match, and I disagreed with the PD as well. After all that, all Clark needed to do was ride a tired freshman for 30 seconds to win the match. He couldn't do it. That's on him.

Sorensen did what he does which is nothing and Collica knows that. No reason to expect Sorensen to change now half way through year 4. We know what we're getting.

 

[Sandor45]

Ref was taking an unusual amount of time getting bottom man set and top man ready. This favored the Okie st guys. Iowa had the better lungs. Ok st knows that.
Extremely obvious in the Gilman Pic match. Should have been a stall call on Pic for taking a day and a half to cover Gilman. Noticed a lot of false start cautions too. It wouldn't even surprise me if that's an OK St strategy to do an intentional false start for an extra 4-5 second restart. Pic did it twice. Boyd did it from on top when he was visablly winded from fighting off his back.
Calling stalling on Clark for that Oklahoma Cradle attempt was definitly questionable. Clark was clearing go for backpoints there. Bailed Kaid out of a tough spot.
Maybe this is the ref's style or not. Either way, it definitely favored the pokes yesterday.

 

[hlstone]

My dad was a ref. He always told me , "If you put the match into the officials hands you may lose, so go win the match"

 

[championhawk]

I can't believe the excuses out of he posters on this board. We got our butts handed to us by a better team yesterday. We are going to get them kicked again on Friday. John Smith had his guys ready to go against us and they outwrestled us in the majority of matches.

Stoll needs to get some offense. If pushing is the only set up he has, expect no AA from him this year.

Clark needs to be able to ride out a tired freshman for 30 seconds in the 3rd to win that match.

Collins has Sorenson figured out. If Sorenson isn't going to get any attempts off, then Collins knows he doesn't need to either. And if he can get out that quickly he's going to win those matches.

Priceless coming from a cyclone fan.

 

[usarmyret2011]

Agree with the OP on many points. Stoll has to come up with more than just pushing a guy around for 7 minutes.

Watched the dual on Flo with a couple of my best Iowa wrestling fans friends and we came to the consensus that the only Hawk that lost that maybe deserved to win was Clark, although we agreed that even with a not 100% shoulder he should have maybe been able to ride out a RS Freshman regardless of how good Brock is. Hawks literally just got beat by a team that is better than them right now, and frankly Okie State showed that they wanted it more than "we" did.

My 8 year old lost in the finals of a wrestling tournament during the day Sunday and he was whining about it when I said to him, “ hey, that kid was just plain better than you today. If you want to be better than him the next time you meet you have some work to do.” Looks like this same statement would serve to sum up the Okie State meet. They were simply better than our Hawks on Sunday, they won the one point matches that mattered.

 

[crablegs1]

Priceless coming from a cyclone fan.

Lol. You should tell cyclonefanatic that. It seems neither HR or CF can handle the truth so their quick to label someone as not a fan.

 

[Azchief32]

My dad was a ref. He always told me , "If you put the match into the officials hands you may lose, so go win the match"

Pretty much this...If you look at the difference between Sorensen and Kemerer yesterday, it was vast. Kemerer had that match well in hand (further than the score, Joe didn't really come close to scoring) but even the Flo guys said he looked like he was the aggressor in the third period. The sheer volume of shots was impressive and the fact that he was so quick that he could shoot w/o getting caught up was ridiculous. If it was 0-0, Kemerer is finishing on some of those shots vs just looking for a perfect situation to score more. He gave himself options. Sorensen did not.

 

[mike tognetti]

Here is something for a few of you Iowa posters

 

[1stplacehawk]

Stallica wanted no part of wrestling yesterday. The FCS announcer were arguing that he was pushing the action. I suppose if knee taps and face slaps are offense then they might be right. As far as I saw, BS took the only legitimate shot.

That said, BS needs to push the action. It should be easy to get stall calls against Stallica. I don't see Stallica scoring a TD against BS so BS needs to force him to either give up a stalling point or force him to take some shots that can be countered. BS wrestled this match not to lose. I don't think he'll make that mistake twice. Now let's just hope Stallica beats Mayes later this month so that BS doesn't get shafted into the #4 seed.

Collica has zero takedowns against Sorensen in three folkstyle matches. He literally has only one path to victory and he took it yesterday.

 

[Azchief32]

Lol. You should tell cyclonefanatic that. It seems neither HR or CF can handle the truth so their quick to label someone as not a fan.

So which is right about you not being a fan of their team...HR or CF?

The ref made bad calls yesterday. It's pretty easy to come in and point out the obvious and sell it as truth but one (Iowa not wrestling well, OSU wrestling smart) does not have anything to do with the other (bad calls/no calls). Cory doesn't get taken down (the second one), he ends up with a two point lead and whether he can ride a freshman out or not doesn't matter. If he gets the turn, it's 2-4points or maybe a pin. What about when he was attempting the turn with the side headlock and gets a stall call? How about some stall calls on both Sorensen and Collins for not doing anything?

Oklahoma State did want it more but I don't particularly think we got outwrestled that badly. Out strategized? Sure. We lost 133 and 149 by a total of three RT secs against good opponents. We took a pin at 165 to a guy that is a third or fourth stringer (if Marinelli or Young are in the mix). Our second string 184 is wrestling up a weight and if he doesn't choose down, likely loses 1-0 to their top five guy at 197 because neither were doing anything on their feet. So 141, 174 and HWY is where we got outwrestled and even our 41 gave him all he could handle.

Okie State is a good team...that's why they are ranked #1 but let's not pretend they were world beaters who came out with their singlets on fire (except at 165) yesterday.

 

[Azchief32]

Here is something for a few of you Iowa posters

Conveniently, Mike shows up after the dual to talk smack.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

If Sorensen let it all hang out on his feet we would not be talking about this. He is excellent on his feet.

 

[LaxHawk174]

So which is right about you not being a fan of their team...HR or CF?

The ref made bad calls yesterday. It's pretty easy to come in and point out the obvious and sell it as truth but one (Iowa not wrestling well, OSU wrestling smart) does not have anything to do with the other (bad calls/no calls). Cory doesn't get taken down (the second one), he ends up with a two point lead and whether he can ride a freshman out or not doesn't matter. If he gets the turn, it's 2-4points or maybe a pin. What about when he was attempting the turn with the side headlock and gets a stall call? How about some stall calls on both Sorensen and Collins for not doing anything?

Oklahoma State did want it more but I don't particularly think we got outwrestled that badly. Out strategized? Sure. We lost 133 and 149 by a total of three RT secs against good opponents. We took a pin at 165 to a guy that is a third or fourth stringer (if Marinelli or Young are in the mix). Our second string 184 is wrestling up a weight and if he doesn't choose down, likely loses 1-0 to their top five guy at 197 because neither were doing anything on their feet. So 141, 174 and HWY is where we got outwrestled and even our 41 gave him all he could handle.

Okie State is a good team...that's why they are ranked #1 but let's not pretend they were world beaters who came out with their singlets on fire (except at 165) yesterday.

Pretty much exactly how I saw the dual. Frustrating? Yes. Most embarassing performance of Brands career? (Posted by multiple 'fans').. Give me a break.

 

[CP84]

Most embarassing performance of Brands career? (Posted by multiple 'fans').. Give me a break.

Well you have to consider the compare group. Brands only has 18 losses in his Iowa coaching career. You'd probably have to go back to his first year and examine the 5 he had then to find a more disappointing one. Not too often Iowa sees a #1 and #2 wrestler choke in the same match against lower ranked opponents. Then you throw in the minor Stoll upset and it's tough to find a worse performance in his career.

 

[hawknut]

They just need to go out and wrestle like they have been since they were 5 years old. One thing that I do think Brands can take some blame for during his years is (possibly) adjusting his wrestler's mindset after a loss. It seems when they lose, they have to "be smarter" and somehow that has been received as take less risks.

Look at guys like Nolf, Nickal, or Ian Miller. All guys who get after it all the time, and have lost big matches because of it too. That never swayed them from being who they are. Point being, you can win or lose by being aggressive and conservative, you might as well give yourself the best chance. Every guy in the lineup is capable of putting up big points. They're also capable of getting back points they might have given up due to a scramble or something.

Nolf and Nickal are just better and that is why it appears they stay aggressive. Any one that ever has wrestled knows it is easy to stay on your offense against opponents you are significantly better than. It's hard to get on offense against an equal guy. It college, it's hard because if you can't complete a shot, you are at a disadvantage. It's a function of the rules and discourages offense. Brooks Is the perfect example, aggressive until he finds and equal guy. Although he may take too many chances. I do know what you are talking about though because although IMart and Nolf were equal, they both stayed on their offense. That's because they are both elite. We have guys like Gilman, Topher, Kemmerer, who attack. Brooks too. The problem is we have a bunch of guys who just aren't good enough to, and that leads to coin flip matches. I don't know that it's Brands's fault, other than he got the wrong guys.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Well you have to consider the compare group. Brands only has 18 losses in his Iowa coaching career. You'd probably have to go back to his first year and examine the 5 he had then to find a more disappointing one. Not too often Iowa sees a #1 and #2 wrestler choke in the same match against lower ranked opponents. Then you throw in the minor Stoll upset and it's tough to find a worse performance in his career.

I guess if you want to argue it that way, go ahead. The way i see it is. 1) we lost to the #1 ranked team. 2) clark coming off of injury, and even IF we ignore that he got screwed in that match, the guy he lost to has only lost one match last year by Inj. To the NCAA champ. He also pinned brewer, whom clark never beat, not a bad loss by any means, under the circumstances. 3) Sorensen lost to the #3 in the most tactical match possible by 2 secs of riding time. 4) Stoll also coming off of major injury, still getting into form. Ironside AND Tom mentioned/alluded to a knee tweak.

Some dual performances that I think were worse in RECENT years.. The tOSU loss in 2012 season, mizzou loss in 2015 season, PSU loss in 2014. To name a few.

 

[neversurrender]

Nolf and Nickal are just better and that is why it appears they stay aggressive. Any one that ever has wrestled knows it is easy to stay on your offense against opponents you are significantly better than. It's hard to get on offense against an equal guy. It college, it's hard because if you can't complete a shot, you are at a disadvantage. It's a function of the rules and discourages offense. Brooks Is the perfect example, aggressive until he finds and equal guy. Although he may take too many chances. I do know what you are talking about though because although IMart and Nolf were equal, they both stayed on their offense. That's because they are both elite. We have guys like Gilman, Topher, Kemmerer, who attack. Brooks too. The problem is we have a bunch of guys who just aren't good enough to, and that leads to coin flip matches. I don't know that it's Brands's fault, other than he got the wrong guys.

So when you're not as good you can't attempt to be aggressive? Wilcke has taken maybe 10 shots all season, stoll tried 2 knee taps yesterday but no actual shots, meyer didn't try anything till the 3rd, Sorenson is supposed to be better and isn't aggressive. Just because someone is better doesn't mean you can't still aggressive against them and attempt shots we have too many guys that just stand there tying up and attempting nothing. I get that we might not have the top level guys but is there some reason that these guys can't even take a shot?

 

[hawknut]

Someone said Collica and Zain wrestled last year. What was score? I didn't watch the Sorensen match, but if some good guys goal is to make it to OT, and slapping the whole match and ref isn't calling stalling, it would be hard to score on him.

 

[hawknut]

So when you're not as good you can't attempt to be aggressive? Wilcke has taken maybe 10 shots all season, stoll tried 2 knee taps yesterday but no actual shots, meyer didn't try anything till the 3rd, Sorenson is supposed to be better and isn't aggressive. Just because someone is better doesn't mean you can't still aggressive against them and attempt shots we have too many guys that just stand there tying up and attempting nothing. I get that we might not have the top level guys but is there some reason that these guys can't even take a shot?

I agree with you to a point. Don't know if you read my edited post. We just have some guys who aren't good enough on offense to be that aggressive. If you don't have to elite offense against good guys, you won't try.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Someone said Collica and Zain wrestled last year. What was score? I didn't watch the Sorensen match, but if some good guys goal is to make it to OT, and slapping the whole match and ref isn't calling stalling, it would be hard to score on him.

Collica lost to Zain 4-1 i believe at the National duals.

 

[Azchief32]

Well you have to consider the compare group. Brands only has 18 losses in his Iowa coaching career. You'd probably have to go back to his first year and examine the 5 he had then to find a more disappointing one. Not too often Iowa sees a #1 and #2 wrestler choke in the same match against lower ranked opponents. Then you throw in the minor Stoll upset and it's tough to find a worse performance in his career.

The loss to tOSU back in 2012 was pretty bad:

#2 IOWA 9, #7 Ohio State 21
125 - Matt McDonough (I) dec. Johnni Dijulius (O), 5-2
133 - Logan Stieber (O) dec. Tony Ramos (I), 7-0
141 - Hunter Stieber (O) dec. Montell Marion (I), 4-2
149 - Cam Tessari (O) dec. Mike Kelly (I), 9-4
157 - Josh Demas (O) dec. Derek St. John (I), 7-3
165 - Derek Garcia (O) dec. Mike Evans (I), 6-5
174 - Ethen Lofthouse (I) dec. Joe Grandominico (O), 7-1
184 - Nick Heflin (O) dec. Vinnie Wagner (I), 7-4
197 - Andrew Campolattano (O) dec. Grant Gambrall (I), 8-6
285 - Blake Rasing (I) dec. Peter Capone (O), 6-2

 

[McCulloughd]

Who's Collins?

An Astronaut for the Gemini Program.

 

[McCulloughd]

"Collins" does not have Sorensen figured out...Sorensen has been the initiator of scores in their matches...watch "Grapple" and Sorensen had the only legit attempt of the match yesterday . When Sorensen does, he wins. When he doesn't, than he leaves it to the whims of OT and the ref in a TShirt like match. Collins figured him out...lmao.

Ref sucked yesterday...wouldn't have changed the team outcome but certainly some matches.

Starting a thread to lecture people not to complain about the ref...
Old Chinese proverb: Man who pisses in the wind gets boots wet

Don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining.

 

[Azchief32]

t college, it's hard because if you can't complete a shot, you are at a disadvantage. It's a function of the rules and discourages offense. Brooks Is the perfect example, aggressive until he finds and equal guy.

This...A guy like Nolf can give up points and take risks because he is just that much better. Same with Brands back in the day. However, I think it comes down to mentality and willingness to take risks and speed up a match. Look at the match speed with some of the old great guys...than look at Nolf, Nickal and Zain. Pretty much the same, amiright? They are always looking to put people on their back and it opens up a lot of other stuff. That type of confidence, when you have it, is a great thing to behold. Brooks wrestled with it yesterday. Boyd is not chopped liver (was ranked higher than Sammy), had a home crowd behind him, and momentum given to him by his guys. Still Brooks went out there and not only wrestled well but he chain wrestled. We just don't do a lot of it.

 

[Azchief32]

An Astronaut for the Gemini Program.

Tony Collins? Isn't that a drink? Or an Irish freedom fighter?

 

[McCulloughd]

Here is something for a few of you Iowa posters

When your mother decided after your 8th birthday to stop breast feeding you this was a birthday gift?