Strib’s take on Gard-Howard scuffle

[HawkNorth]

Jim Souhan offers a good take on the dust up between Gard and Howard. Love his line about Fran:

The handshake line is silly. It's phony. It's for show, as the NCAA tries to send the message that these games are all about student-athletes learning life lessons.
These games are about making lots of television money.
College basketball should adopt the NBA's practice — players and coaches who want to shake hands and talk after the game are free, but not required, to do so.
Basketball is a chippy sport, especially in the Big Ten. The handshake line is a fight waiting to happen.
The two most troubling aspects of the fight were Howard's punch and Gard's body language.
Gard's body language suggested he felt entitled to school an opposing coach.
Can you imagine Gard confronting Michigan State's Tom Izzo? Or Iowa's Fran McCaffery?
Howard starred in high school and at Michigan and played in the NBA for 19 years. In his second season as a college coach, he won the 2021 Big Ten title. The timeout reset rule is not one from the NBA, but Howard also has longtime St. Joseph's head coach Phil Martelli as his top assistant.
Gard's assumption that he could or should tutor Howard is astonishingly arrogant.
Or something much worse.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

In some points he's not wrong.

The handshake line doesn't need to go away though. That's a cop out to excuse poor character. Hope that helps with people on that side going forward.............

 

[Quintana]

say what? i think that's a terrible take and a complete reach to try and blame gard. laughable.

 

[Rifler]

In his post game interview Gard indicated that perhaps Howard didn't know the rule,.. Gard's comment did sound quite condescending.

 

[DodgerHawki]

say what? i think that's a terrible take and a complete reach to try and blame gard. laughable.

The only thing that makes sense is the handshake line. I still think they should be able to to do it, I'm okay with not "mandating" it.

Souhan is basically saying Gard is racist. He's definitely implying it.

 

[DodgerHawki]

In his post game interview Gard indicated that perhaps Howard didn't know the rule,.. Gard's comment did sound quite condescending.

Multiple things can be true. Gard can be a condescending douche, and Howard can be an ass.

 

[Mccusk34]

Awful take. Out of all the handshake lines that have occurred, especially in the 80s and 90s (when the game was more physical), how many coaches slapped another coach?
This argument that college sports is ONLY about money, is short sited and irresponsible. If no one ever expects people to behave with good sportsmanship then no one ever will. This will end up being a great lesson for future coaches, that they need to be able to control their own emotions because something like this could happen.
This stupid idea that we can create utopia if just expect less out of people is a weak take. Make mistakes and learn from them, that's how you grow.

 

[Rifler]

Multiple things can be true. Gard can be a condescending douche, and Howard can be an ass.

I believe both of those things to be facts

 

[hawkjt]

Dispensing with the handshake line would be yet another bad capitulation to lowering discourse standards in our society.
The slogan "take back our country"
actually should apply in this case.
Back to a time when respect and civility was the norm.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Awful take. Out of all the handshake lines that have occurred, especially in the 80s and 90s (when the game was more physical), how many coaches slapped another coach?
This argument that college sports is ONLY about money, is short sited and irresponsible. If no one ever expects people to behave with good sportsmanship then no one ever will. This will end up being a great lesson for future coaches, that they need to be able to control their own emotions because something like this could happen.
This stupid idea that we can create utopia if just expect less out of people is a weak take. Make mistakes and learn from them, that's how you grow.

Yes. Of course much about college sports is about money. What is the problem with that?

The fact that people pay money to go to the games and networks pay money to televise the games allows for all of these subsequent things to happen:

• Every player can go to school for free
• Every player can now earn $ of their name, image, likeness largely because the public knows who they are because the public likes college basketball.
• Coaches get paid very well
• Media members earn a living providing coverage of games because people care so much about the games that they will visit websites or pay subscriptions that support those media members.

I don't get the media members decrying that "it's all about the money." Of course it is. If there were no money involved, it would mean people don't care about it and said media members who are wringing their hands about it being all about the money wouldn't have jobs.

 

[24 so far]

say what? i think that's a terrible take and a complete reach to try and blame gard. laughable.

Agreed. The message is let's just get rid of Sportsmanship because some don't have the mental aptitude to handle getting beat. It's not that tough, and that goes for Iowa too.

It's a game. Nobody is trying to steal your possessions, threaten your Family or take food of your plate. It's a game. It's a sad indictment of society when you can't finish a sporting event without shaking the hand of your opponent, someone that is or should be a lot like you, just wearing a different colored jersey. Pathetic really.

Basketball is a "chippy sport". If that's true I wonder how he'd describe Wrestling and Football. LOL!

You're always going to have your share of hotheads, and the goal should be to weed them out of Sports if they can't handle something so simple as a handshake after a game. All Sports have rules for a reason, if you can't follow them, Sports or being in public period probably isn't for you.

 

[Crafty Beaver]

For the life of me, I can’t understand how so many people can interpret this situation wrong.

aside from Juwan Howard throwing hands, which we all agree is completely wrong, people are missing the entire premise of the fight.
For jh to walk up to gard and feign outrage at him taking a timeout is absolutely laughable. If anyone has a reason to be pissed after the game, it was gard. Howard has absolutely no business pressing the Wisconsin scrubs with his starters. None. Yet gard was going to be more than willing to let that fly.
What he wasn’t willing to let fly, was Howard saying, “I’m gonna remember that.” Lol, gard was like, are you kidding me?!? You effed this situation up, this is on you.
Every single coach is going to come back at jh for that moronic take and well they Should.

 

[Mccusk34]

Agreed. The message is let's just get rid of Sportsmanship because some don't have the mental aptitude to handle getting beat. It's not that tough, and that goes for Iowa too.

It's a game. Nobody is trying to steal your possessions, threaten your Family or take food of your plate. It's a game. It's a sad indictment of society when you can't finish a sporting event without shaking the hand of your opponent, someone that is or should be a lot like you, just wearing a different colored jersey. Pathetic really.

Basketball is a "chippy sport". If that's true I wonder how he'd describe Wrestling and Football. LOL!

You're always going to have your share of hotheads, and the goal should be to weed them out of Sports if they can't handle something so simple as a handshake after a game. All Sports have rules for a reason, if you can't follow them, Sports or being in public period probably isn't for you.

Add to that, shouldn't we be able to expect 2 grown adults to not like spoiled brats? "He grabbed my arm because he wanted to have a conversation like adult men." Gard didn't shove him, he stopped Howard because the expectation as adults they should be able to discuss the problem. But Howard wants to walk by and passive aggressively say "I'll remember this S&*%." Then like the spoiled brat he is, when an adult calls him on his childish ways he lashes out and throws a tantrum.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Souhan’s take is turrible. Poor, poor Juwan 🙄

 

[Terrykohawk]

I put a lot of blame on the Wisconsin assistant coach. Things were calming down until he started yapping. Got the Michigan players and Howard all fired up again. Howard screwed up. A coach cannot do what he did, at any time. Gard is an arrogant jerk. We knew that. The assistant coach just fits into the Gard-Davison school of behavior. A punk. Howard is just lucky he still has a job. Many other coaches would have been justifiably fired.

 

[Carlton]

Dispensing with the handshake line would be yet another bad capitulation to lowering discourse standards in our society.
The slogan "take back our country"
actually should apply in this case.
Back to a time when respect and civility was the norm.

Whether we like him all the time or not, coach Izzo did a nice job addressing the handshake issue yesterday at his press conference

 

[farina1]

In his post game interview Gard indicated that perhaps Howard didn't know the rule,.. Gard's comment did sound quite condescending.

So what? Howard is a chump and proved that last year when confronting Turgeon. It appears Howard feels he is entitled to do whatever he wants. Rules apply to everyone else but him.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Gotta love the "sportsmanship is silly" comments

 

[Rifler]

So what? Howard is a chump and proved that last year when confronting Turgeon. It appears Howard feels he is entitled to do whatever he wants. Rules apply to everyone else but him.

So Howard is everything you say and Gard is a condescending asshole...

 

[Bee93]

So what? Howard is a chump and proved that last year when confronting Turgeon. It appears Howard feels he is entitled to do whatever he wants. Rules apply to everyone else but him.

Goes all the way back to taking $$ to play at Michigan. Probably farther back than that.

 

[sober_teacher]

I don’t have a problem with the handshake line. I also think coaches should have the option to opt out of the postgame pleasantries if they think tensions are high after the game has ended, like when Fran pulled his guys out after the Illinois game last year.

 

[fezzador]

I don’t have a problem with the handshake line. I also think coaches should have the option to opt out of the postgame pleasantries if they think tensions are high after the game has ended, like when Fran pulled his guys out after the Illinois game last year.

Yep. A coach should held responsible for both his players and his own actions, so they need to tell their players before the handshake line starts that if anyone is too pissed to act like a human being, to sit their ass down and stay the hell away from the other team.

 

[Arbor1]

Jim Souhan offers a good take on the dust up between Gard and Howard. Love his line about Fran:

The handshake line is silly. It's phony. It's for show, as the NCAA tries to send the message that these games are all about student-athletes learning life lessons.
These games are about making lots of television money.
College basketball should adopt the NBA's practice — players and coaches who want to shake hands and talk after the game are free, but not required, to do so.
Basketball is a chippy sport, especially in the Big Ten. The handshake line is a fight waiting to happen.
The two most troubling aspects of the fight were Howard's punch and Gard's body language.
Gard's body language suggested he felt entitled to school an opposing coach.
Can you imagine Gard confronting Michigan State's Tom Izzo? Or Iowa's Fran McCaffery?
Howard starred in high school and at Michigan and played in the NBA for 19 years. In his second season as a college coach, he won the 2021 Big Ten title. The timeout reset rule is not one from the NBA, but Howard also has longtime St. Joseph's head coach Phil Martelli as his top assistant.
Gard's assumption that he could or should tutor Howard is astonishingly arrogant.
Or something much worse.

So his body language "suggested" and his "assumption" - what the hell kind of projection is this nonsense? Absolutely irresponsible and amazing that you buy into this jibberish.

 

[2432Hawk]

Dispensing with the handshake line would be yet another bad capitulation to lowering discourse standards in our society.
The slogan "take back our country"
actually should apply in this case.
Back to a time when respect and civility was the norm.

maybe Howard's slap to Krabbenhoft was to challenge him to a duel?

 

[stender72865]

The notion of ending a handshake line is ridiculous. So much civility in our society has gone by the wayside. It is too much to ask for two grown men to shake each other's hands, say "good game" (even if you are pissed and don't mean it), and move on? The same goes for the 18-22 year olds in line. The problem is that kids (meaning high school aged and younger) see this behavior from Howard + Gard and think it's OK. I'm glad Michigan suspended + fined Howard, but I think he should've been fired. If any of us punch a co-worker (whether they deserve it or not), we are fired and/or charged with assault.

This writer is WAY off base. Eliminating hand shake lines is another way to lower the expectations in our society.

 

[BondHawk]

Basketball is a "chippy sport". If that's true I wonder how he'd describe Wrestling and Football. LOL!

You're always going to have your share of hotheads, and the goal should be to weed them out of Sports if they can't handle something so simple as a handshake after a game. All Sports have rules for a reason, if you can't follow them, Sports or being in public period probably isn't for you.

I don't necessarily disagree with your take, but football and wrestling don't have handshake lines. Probably for a reason. To me, the biggest reason is that at any age, mindlessly walking through the handshake line repeating "goodgamegood gamegoodgamegoodgame" is a complete and utter waste of time and serves no purpose whatsoever. What critical life skill do we think it is actually teaching? If you genuinely want to express to an opponent how much you appreciate his/her effort and performance, I'm guessing you'll find him/her after the game on your own time and can do it then. About 50% of the individual post-match wrestling handshakes end up with words or worse being exchanged (at least at Iowa meets) - being forced to shake hands has nothing to do with your character or how good of a "man" you are.

Sportsmanship should be shown for the entirety of the game being played on the court or field - if it has to be reinforced by lightly touching hands while avoiding eye contact with the other team (which is 90% of every handshake line ever), then everyone involved has missed the point.

 

[ssckelley]

For the life of me I don't get why there are people that think its acceptable to for a coach to put his hands on another coach especially when he's visibly upset. This wasn't a gentile touch just to clarify something, he flat out grabbed him and drew Howard to him. To put this in perspective when you see someone pissed off, anywhere, do you think it's a good idea to grab them by the arm and get in their face? Heck no, you could get your block knocked off so why would you put yourself (and the other person) in that situation? You walk away, give that person a chance to calm down THEN you follow up with them to talk to them. The only time someone would do this is if they were fired up as well and that's when fights break out.

Gard was not being gentile, he was clearly fired up as well (heck he was dropping f bombs in his own huddle) some of you act like Gard was being level headed and just wanted to explain the situation, that's bullcrap! Watch the video, heck watch the video of the last 30 seconds, and watch the post game presser as he comes off as an arrogant prick.

Does any of this excuse what Howard did, NO, of course not. But to say Gard had no role in this is insane and obviously the league office sees it that way as well since they did end up fining Gard. To be clear what Howard did is a 1000 times worse but that does not mean what Gard did was acceptable.

 

[General Tso]

Awful take. Out of all the handshake lines that have occurred, especially in the 80s and 90s (when the game was more physical), how many coaches slapped another coach?
This argument that college sports is ONLY about money, is short sited and irresponsible. If no one ever expects people to behave with good sportsmanship then no one ever will. This will end up being a great lesson for future coaches, that they need to be able to control their own emotions because something like this could happen.
This stupid idea that we can create utopia if just expect less out of people is a weak take. Make mistakes and learn from them, that's how you grow.

Fair take. On the same level, how many coaches grab onto another coach who is trying to avoid conflict, knowing that coach is at a breaking point? Gard is 49% to blame here.

 

[Crafty Beaver]

I don't necessarily disagree with your take, but football and wrestling don't have handshake lines. Probably for a reason. To me, the biggest reason is that at any age, mindlessly walking through the handshake line repeating "goodgamegood gamegoodgamegoodgame" is a complete and utter waste of time and serves no purpose whatsoever. What critical life skill do we think it is actually teaching? If you genuinely want to express to an opponent how much you appreciate his/her effort and performance, I'm guessing you'll find him/her after the game on your own time and can do it then. About 50% of the individual post-match wrestling handshakes end up with words or worse being exchanged (at least at Iowa meets) - being forced to shake hands has nothing to do with your character or how good of a "man" you are.

Sportsmanship should be shown for the entirety of the game being played on the court or field - if it has to be reinforced by lightly touching hands while avoiding eye contact with the other team (which is 90% of every handshake line ever), then everyone involved has missed the point.

Wrestlers shake hands before & after every match. Good conduct is expected...and forgive me, I think the entire wrestling teams/staffs do have handshake lines after meets...?

Football coaches customarily shake hands, but it's impractical to have 100 people lined up to do so.

 

[Franisdaman]

Add to that, shouldn't we be able to expect 2 grown adults to not like spoiled brats? "He grabbed my arm because he wanted to have a conversation like adult men." Gard didn't shove him, he stopped Howard because the expectation as adults they should be able to discuss the problem. But Howard wants to walk by and passive aggressively say "I'll remember this S&*%." Then like the spoiled brat he is, when an adult calls him on his childish ways he lashes out and throws a tantrum.

my favorite part is JH saying "don't touch me" as he grabs Gard's shirt in his fist

and why did Gard get fined $10,000 again?

 

[Crafty Beaver]

Fair take. On the same level, how many coaches grab onto another coach who is trying to avoid conflict, knowing that coach is at a breaking point? Gard is 49% to blame here.

It is INSANE to think Juwan Howard was trying to avoid conflict there. He was staring daggers at Gard multiple times in the last 30 seconds. He intentionally waited for the end of the line so that he could speak his mind to Gard.

He just wanted his words to carry the day. That's not how this world works. You share your perspective, I share mine.

 

[TampaHawkfan]

The handshake line works out OK in the NHL as far as I can tell, and I can't think of a much "chippier" sport than hockey. When it's all said and done there still seems to be sportsmanship and a mutual respect. Guess this is missing in hoops.

 

[Franisdaman]

This is 4 minutes long

 

[BondHawk]

Wrestlers shake hands before & after every match. Good conduct is expected...and forgive me, I think the entire wrestling teams/staffs do have handshake lines after meets...?

Football coaches customarily shake hands, but it's impractical to have 100 people lined up to do so.

It is possible I blacked out on the wrestling handshake line, just never paid attention to it I guess. But let's not act like wrestling is the ultimate display of athletic sportsmanship just because they forcibly have their hands held together by the ref at the end of the match, usually while one of them is either still stripping off his ankle bands or trying to sprint off the mat to the locker room. It's not like they are looking deeply into each other's eyes and telling their opponent how much they truly respect each other. You can't compel respect by forcing an action.

 

[24 so far]

I don't necessarily disagree with your take, but football and wrestling don't have handshake lines. Probably for a reason. To me, the biggest reason is that at any age, mindlessly walking through the handshake line repeating "goodgamegood gamegoodgamegoodgame" is a complete and utter waste of time and serves no purpose whatsoever. What critical life skill do we think it is actually teaching? If you genuinely want to express to an opponent how much you appreciate his/her effort and performance, I'm guessing you'll find him/her after the game on your own time and can do it then. About 50% of the individual post-match wrestling handshakes end up with words or worse being exchanged (at least at Iowa meets) - being forced to shake hands has nothing to do with your character or how good of a "man" you are.

Sportsmanship should be shown for the entirety of the game being played on the court or field - if it has to be reinforced by lightly touching hands while avoiding eye contact with the other team (which is 90% of every handshake line ever), then everyone involved has missed the point.

College Wrestling does have Team and Coached handshake lines after a dual meet, and pre and post match.

Like you said "probably for a reason". That reason is called Sportsmanship.

 

[MrsScrew]

I love Izzo's take on it.

that being said, post game 2022-2023 is going to look a lot like this

 

[24 so far]

It is possible I blacked out on the wrestling handshake line, just never paid attention to it I guess. But let's not act like wrestling is the ultimate display of athletic sportsmanship just because they forcibly have their hands held together by the ref at the end of the match, usually while one of them is either still stripping off his ankle bands or trying to sprint off the mat to the locker room. It's not like they are looking deeply into each other's eyes and telling their opponent how much they truly respect each other. You can't compel respect by forcing an action.

No you can't. The same rule applies because people have the ability to type.

Respect is earned, and always has been, you don't earn that by being a poor sport or a jackass.

Nobody is born an asshole, it's a learned trait if you happen to be one.

This to me is about being a decent human being. Win, lose or draw, there is nothing simpler in life than shaking a fellow competitors hand after a Sporting Event, even the assholes.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I have no problem with going to a "participate if you want" position ike what happens after a football game. If tensions are high and guys are pissed it doesn't make sense to force something that isn't there in the moment. Walking away and not escalating the situation is often the best course of action.

 

[jonesy5960]

maybe Howard's slap to Krabbenhoft was to challenge him to a duel?

Total idiot response. Everybody knows that requires a glove and Howard wasn't holding one. 🙄

 

[Bulldogs1974]

College Wrestling does have Team and Coached handshake lines after a dual meet, and pre and post match.

Like you said "probably for a reason". That reason is called Sportsmanship.

Wrestling is not a place to look for sportsmanship. Most handshakes are contentious and forced. There are points deductions for unsportsmanlike behavior because it’s not out of the ordinary.