"Such NATO Action Near Our Borders Cannot Be Ignored By Our Military"

sober_teacher

HR Legend
Mar 26, 2007
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Russia asked for assurances that NATO would not expand to it's borders, put armaments within striking distance of its cities. NATO said no. What exactly is Russia supposed to do here? They're being surrounded and isolated by potentially hostile forces.
Have to love the logic where the country that instigated the crisis is somehow the victim.
 

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
15,275
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The United States is to blame and Russia must invade Ukraine.

Are you simple or something? Russia has no choice. We forced them to benefit from this.

Like if your SBW argues with you, you have to cheat on her. That’s on her. It just makes sense.
Do you think Soviet weapons in Cuba required The US to put a blockade (an act of war) on Cuba?
The U.S. had no choice, right?
If the Soviets ignored the illegal blockade and the U.S. navy started shooting to enforce, well that’s Soviet aggression, right?

Why would we feel threatened by an announced adversary putting weapons within 100 miles of our border?
Why were we so angsty about that, but can’t grasp the other side having a concern with the tables flipped?

Why does no one address this?
Was Kennedy actually unjustifiably bellicose?
 
Nov 28, 2010
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Make people feel like the west is out to get them
This reminds me of the old joke "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

The West has been, and still is, out to get Russia - since at least 1917.

Putin doesn't need to make people feel like the West is out to get Russia. They know.
 

BelemNole

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
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This reminds me of the old joke "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

The West has been, and still is, out to get Russia - since at least 1917.

Putin doesn't need to make people feel like the West is out to get Russia. They know.
Please, the west was ready to forget Russia. Look no further than the Obama/Romney debate. Once the Soviet Union fell no one cared until Putin started annexing land again. Act like a good neighbor and we love us some Russians. They have hot women and make good vodka.
 
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mnole03

HR Legend
Mar 20, 2005
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Not you....that's for sure.

Who overthrew the democratically elected leader, Yanukovych, destabilizing the country and installed their puppet?
You mean the guy who looted his country and fled to Russia to avoid an impeachment vote?
 
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Nat Algren

HR Legend
Nov 23, 2014
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The push for NATO expansion started, in the 90s, when Russia had a very US-friendly government, and wasn't threatening anyone. As with most things, it was about $$'s. US arms makers were looking for new customers & lobbied heavily. Here's how @nytimes reported it, at the time.

FIuV47UXsAAZvhI


FIuV47WWYAUPst4


FIuV47UXMAcivQB
 
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Nat Algren

HR Legend
Nov 23, 2014
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You mean the guy who looted his country and fled to Russia to avoid an impeachment vote?
You can find that with any leader in every country. But, interesting how you support insurrection in other countries, (foreign intervention even). But, you keep fighting hard for self-professed neo-Nazis, booyyyyy. I'm sure there's honor in that somewhere.


Revealed: ‘anti-oligarch’ Ukrainian president’s offshore connections​

This article is more than 3 months old
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has railed against politicians hiding wealth offshore but failed to disclose links to BVI firm
 

Nat Algren

HR Legend
Nov 23, 2014
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When the F did it become a sacred obligation to defend neo-Nazis 6K miles away from our shores?

 

SI_NYC

HR MVP
Dec 15, 2001
1,338
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That's a weak effort, even by your standards. Read this:

Putin is concerned that his popularity is dropping quickly as the Russian economy is in the crapper and covid is running out of control. So a quick patriotic war will fix things for a while. It has in the past. Make people feel like the west is out to get them, rally around Putin again. Crisis over for ~18 months.


And tell me this couldn't be equally as applicable:

Biden is concerned that his popularity is dropping quickly as the American economy is in the crapper and covid is running out of control. So a quick patriotic war will fix things for a while. It has in the past. Make people feel like the east is out to get them, rally around old glory again. Crisis over for ~18 months.
Your bias is blinding you.
 
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lucas80

HR King
Gold Member
Jan 30, 2008
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You need help with a lot of things. Your putting the intellectual ROT in HROT is just one of many.

Ukraine is NOT sovereign.
Why not? They have all the things you’d look for in a sovereign nation. A government. People. Land. A shared language. A religious identity. A history of being invaded by Russia. Many people say Ukraine has existed as a nation longer than Russia has.
 
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Nat Algren

HR Legend
Nov 23, 2014
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Why not? They have all the things you’d look for in a sovereign nation. A government. People. Land. A shared language. A religious identity. A history of being invaded by Russia. Many people say Ukraine has existed as a nation longer than Russia has.
Who is financing their debt? Who unconstitutionally overthrew the democratically elected leader and installed their comedian puppet? Who is laundering $billions in military equipment at US taxpayer expense?

Democracy? Zelenskiy has shutdown 3 media companies that are critical of him. He placed under house arrest the leading opposition leader.

 

lucas80

HR King
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Jan 30, 2008
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Who is financing their debt? Who unconstitutionally overthrew the democratically elected leader and installed their comedian puppet? Who is laundering $billions in military equipment at US taxpayer expense?

Democracy? Zelenskiy has shutdown 3 media companies that are critical of him. He placed under house arrest the leading opposition leader.

What’s that got to do with sovereignty? I’ll just humor you and pretend it isn’t all FSB generated BS, but how does that wash away 1000 + years of Ukrainian history and culture?
 
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fsu1jreed

HR Legend
Apr 1, 2002
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What’s that got to do with sovereignty? I’ll just humor you and pretend it isn’t all FSB generated BS, but how does that wash away 1000 + years of Ukrainian history and culture?

Let's not forget that Ukraine is a non member of the UN National Security Council.
 

Nat Algren

HR Legend
Nov 23, 2014
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What’s that got to do with sovereignty? I’ll just humor you and pretend it isn’t all FSB generated BS, but how does that wash away 1000 + years of Ukrainian history and culture?
It has everything to do with sovereignty. Ukraine is a US puppet state. Is this too difficult for you? Should I type slower? He who pays the band calls the tune. Ukraine is Country 404, an error, that is collapsing.

All of Europe is not sovereign. Germany wants Russian gas. But, a 3rd party steps in (US) and tells them they can't. Now Biden is going around trying to replace them. Qatar is at capacity and locked into contracts with Japan, S. Korea and China. Australia can provide, but, it ain't enough. LNG is also 4 x's higher than Russia's cost.


I wonder what the Big Guy's cut is?

What you need to ask is what will happen if Washington places more sanctions. Europe will become economically uncompetitive as gas prices in homes will triple (already have). The gas can't be replaced from other sources. Europe will freeze. R is a huge exporter in agriculture, particularly grain. Take that off the market and food prices will go parabolic. Russia has already planned for this with China. Ukraine is being sacrificed as no one will come to their defense, even after all the goading by Biden the neocon warmonger.
 
Nov 28, 2010
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What’s that got to do with sovereignty? I’ll just humor you and pretend it isn’t all FSB generated BS, but how does that wash away 1000 + years of Ukrainian history and culture?
This doesn't prove anything one way or the other but it's really fascinating to watch nations come and go and sometimes come again.

 
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