Suppose We Actually Build a Wall

[What Would Jesus Do?]

A serious wall. Tall, not porous, well-patrolled, lots of surveillance gear. Done right.

What changes would you expect to see? For example...

What impact would that have on illegal immigration? Would they just come by different routes? Would there be a huge drop in illegal immigrants?

What impact would it have on illegals already here?

What impact would there be on trade - both legit and smuggling?

What impact would it have on drug traffic?

How would communities and states bordering the wall be affected? Would the existence of the wall make them relax about immigration and, perhaps, become more liberal about it? Or would they become even more bigoted and hateful with the wall to hide behind?

How would it affect our relations with Mexico? Would Mexico move closer to Latin America and away from the US?

And so on....

 

[THE_DEVIL]

.0000000001% of illegal drugs and/or persons will be stopped. Opioid abuse will not be affected.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It's not going to do much. They will find different ways of getting in.

Most will come here legally and just overstay.

Others will take small boats and just get around the wall via the water.

The drug runners will probably be able to tunnel underneath.

It's really hard to physically prevent someone from entering when they are motivated. The better solution is and has always been to cut off the motivation. But that sorts of ideas are beyond the intelligence capability of most on the right. So when they realize their wall hasn't worked they will just advocate for even more ludicrous solutions. Probably including a moat, mounting machine guns to the wall, vats of boiling oil, rocks, large rolling logs. And when they can't get that a bunch of wannabe's with their AR-15's will set up camp just inside the boarder looking for invading brown people to shoot.

 

[jpphawk]

We would have a work shortage

 

[CeMar_Clone]

A serious wall. Tall, not porous, well-patrolled, lots of surveillance gear. Done right.

What changes would you expect to see? For example...

What impact would that have on illegal immigration? Would they just come by different routes? Would there be a huge drop in illegal immigrants?

What impact would it have on illegals already here?

What impact would there be on trade - both legit and smuggling?

What impact would it have on drug traffic?

How would communities and states bordering the wall be affected? Would the existence of the wall make them relax about immigration and, perhaps, become more liberal about it? Or would they become even more bigoted and hateful with the wall to hide behind?

How would it affect our relations with Mexico? Would Mexico move closer to Latin America and away from the US?

And so on....

Obviously it will impact things, that is why the dems are fighting it so hard. If the wall would be ineffective, then the Dems would Take Trump's deal for DACA for a fully funded wall. They get DACA, and we get an ineffective worthless wall. But instead, the Dems are willing to throw the Dreamers under the bus, just to prevent the wall from getting built (which makes no sense if the wall does not work). If the wall works, it pays for itself in less than a year, as illegals cost over 100B a year.

As for the relationship with Mexico, who cares. I don't really understand why people care about 2 bit countries and how they feel. We don't need them, they need us.

 

[Huey Grey]

Obviously it will impact things, that is why the dems are fighting it so hard. If the wall would be ineffective, then the Dems would Take Trump's deal for DACA for a fully funded wall. They get DACA, and we get an ineffective worthless wall. But instead, the Dems are willing to throw the Dreamers under the bus, just to prevent the wall from getting built (which makes no sense if the wall does not work). If the wall works, it pays for itself in less than a year, as illegals cost over 100B a year.

As for the relationship with Mexico, who cares. I don't really understand why people care about 2 bit countries and how they feel. We don't need them, they need us.

Why would the Dems be ok with a super uexpensive wall that is an environmental disaster but won't do anything?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

It’s being reported that a family from Iowa is now missing in Mexico. Add to that recent other abductions and tainted alcohol/robberies and rapes at various resorts and the Mexican authorities do absolutely nothing. The country is run by cartels and not a central government at this stage. Cartels are on par with terrorists which we should not negotiate with.

There was a shooting in central Cabo a few months ago with some tourists caught in the crossfire. It is no longer safe to take your family. Time we cut the tourist dollars off and encourage American tourists go to other countries who actually give half a rats ass about safety instead of turning a blind eye.

 

[Huey Grey]

It’s being reported that a family from Iowa is now missing in Mexico. Add to that recent other abductions and tainted alcohol/robberies and rapes at various resorts and the Mexican authorities do absolutely nothing. The country is run by cartels and not a central government at this stage. Cartels are on par with terrorists which we should not negotiate with.

There was a shooting in central Cabo a few months ago with some tourists caught in the crossfire. It is no longer safe to take your family. Time we cut the tourist dollars off and encourage American tourists go to other countries who actually give half a rats ass about safety instead of turning a blind eye.

What does any of this have to do with the wall?

 

[Rifler]

The biggest positive impact would be that it would provide an impediment to illegal border crossings that couldn't be easily removed by future administrations desiring to relax enforcement of standing immigration law....

 

[bdcolt45er]

The biggest positive impact would be that it would provide an impediment to illegal border crossings that couldn't be easily removed by future administrations desiring to relax enforcement of standing immigration law....

Also good for ladder and rope manufacturers. Win-win really.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

What does any of this have to do with the wall?

We boarder a country run by illegal cartels. The wall needs to be built at a minimum.

It’s ok to put walls up to protect private property especially if you are close to a community that has regular crime. We have a 2000 mile boarder with a neighbor run by cartels. Pretty simple.

 

[Huey Grey]

Also good for ladder and rope manufacturers. Win-win really.

Viewing portal manufacturers, too.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

The wall has nothing to do with stopping illegal activities for Trump. Trump wants a permanent monument built so that he will have a lasting ego boost.

 

[NoleATL]

The drug runners will probably be able to tunnel underneath.

They already are... with electricity, lights and sometimes rail tracks

 

[srams21]

The biggest positive impact would be that it would provide an impediment to illegal border crossings that couldn't be easily removed by future administrations desiring to relax enforcement of standing immigration law....

I am 100% fine if tighter border security and immigration security is your thing. I think we can shore up many immigration practices.

However, building a crazy expensive wall (which will be way more than the estimates btw), and staffing it and maintaining it is way way too expensive. We can do a lot more for a lot less. We need efficiency, not walls built to satisfy egos.

But by all means, keep cutting revenue and paying for expensive "inefficiencies" like this ...

 

[Huey Grey]

We boarder a country run by illegal cartels. The wall needs to be built at a minimum.

It’s ok to put walls up to protect private property especially if you are close to a community that has regular crime. We have a 2000 mile boarder with a neighbor run by cartels. Pretty simple.

The family went missing in Mexico. How does a wall stop that?

 

[srams21]

The family went missing in Mexico. How does a wall stop that?

Duh, Huey.

How would that family have gotten to Mexico if a wall would have been there? Trumpian logic

 

[Huey Grey]

Duh, Huey.

How would that family have gotten to Mexico if a wall would have been there? Trumpian logic

The stupid thing is that things like the State Department could actually help figure out what happened to this family. But Trump has cut their resources.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

The family went missing in Mexico. How does a wall stop that?

It doesn’t. I want a lasting message sent that we are done doing business as usual with a country that could care less if the cartels took over. I’d bar American businesses setting up shop there if I could but that won’t go very far. It would be easier to stop US airlines to fly to Mexico and I would support that as well.

They put on a good show while in the resort areas but Mexico has a major corruption problem that feeds the cartels. If my neighbor on my street is pushing drugs and trafficking humans we would fight it right? Why not our collective neighbor?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

The stupid thing is that things like the State Department could actually help figure out what happened to this family. But Trump has cut their resources.

The State Dept is dependent upon local resources to help. It’s not like the Consulate can send out mercenaries to assist when something like this happens. Throwing cash at the State department would either a) do nothing to solve this or b) give the Mexican ambassador a reason to pay a ransom which only makes the problem worse.

 

[Rifler]

I am 100% fine if tighter border security and immigration security is your thing. I think we can shore up many immigration practices.

However, building a crazy expensive wall (which will be way more than the estimates btw), and staffing it and maintaining it is way way too expensive. We can do a lot more for a lot less. We need efficiency, not walls built to satisfy egos.

But by all means, keep cutting revenue and paying for expensive "inefficiencies" like this ...

Problem is that the next administration could just as easily decide to get lax on border security,... We've been down this path too many times, and to be quite honest, we've learned that our government can't be trusted to consistently enforce the laws on our books...

 

[Hawk8595]

We would have a work shortage

This. Truck farms will have produce rotting in the fields.

 

[Huey Grey]

The State Dept is dependent upon local resources to help. It’s not like the Consulate can send out mercenaries to assist when something like this happens. Throwing cash at the State department would either a) do nothing to solve this or b) give the Mexican ambassador a reason to pay a ransom which only makes the problem worse.

The State Department is responsible for all of our embassies. It is funded by the Federal government and it has seen severe cutbacks since Trump took office. If you want a chance to help families like this one, you start with the services provided by the State Department. Fully funding this department would go way further towards addressing American tourist security than a wall which is completely useless in situations like this. Communications with local police, communications with the United States, communication with our intelligence agencies and whatever intelligence agencies of the country we're in is how you address problems like this. Not a stationary wall hundreds or thousands of miles away.

 

[Huey Grey]

Problem is that the next administration could just as easily decide to get lax on border security,... We've been down this path too many times, and to be quite honest, we've learned that our government can't be trusted to consistently enforce the laws on our books...

How does a wall, which probably won't do much to stop illegal immigration, stop future administrations from getting lax on border security?

 

[Rifler]

How does a wall, which probably won't do much to stop illegal immigration, stop future administrations from getting lax on border security?

Well, first off they would have to physically remove the wall and then publicly explain why they were doing that....

 

[longliveCS40]

 

[Huey Grey]

Well, first off they would have to physically remove the wall and then publicly explain why they were doing that....

The wall doesn't stop illegal immigration, so why would it need to removed to get lax with illegal immigration?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

The State Department is responsible for all of our embassies. It is funded by the Federal government and it has seen severe cutbacks since Trump took office. If you want a chance to help families like this one, you start with the services provided by the State Department. Fully funding this department would go way further towards addressing American tourist security than a wall which is completely useless in situations like this. Communications with local police, communications with the United States, communication with our intelligence agencies and whatever intelligence agencies of the country we're in is how you address problems like this. Not a stationary wall hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Giving money to the State Dept won’t help. They are effectively powerless in this situation. They can make some calls and that’s about it. Local Mexican authorities must be the ones to step up and help.

As for the wall, they have a shithole country being run by shitholes (cartels). That is the first step of many that need to be taken to address our neighbor. The federal government is tasked with protecting our sovereignty so build away and if California doesn’t fall in line then the wall can take a turn north from Yuma and follow the Colorado.

Hell, California still has boarder stations on the AZ/CA line that are fully staffed with no one doing anything. Cars just pass on thru. That State cannot do one damn thing right.

I live in AZ and when the Pinal County sheriff is talking about drug transactions from cartels occurring on his land 40 miles away from one of the US’s largest cities and how his deputies are starting to fear for their lives, I think I’ll listen to what he thinks needs done rather than your usual ramblings.

 

[Huey Grey]

Giving money to the State Dept won’t help. They are effectively powerless in this situation. They can make some calls and that’s about it. Local Mexican authorities must be the ones to step up and help.

As for the wall, they have a shithole country being run by shitholes (cartels). That is the first step of many that need to be taken to address our neighbor. The federal government is tasked with protecting our sovereignty so build away and if California doesn’t fall in line then the wall can take a turn north from Yuma and follow the Colorado.

Hell, California still has boarder stations on the AZ/CA line that are fully staffed with no one doing anything. Cars just pass on thru. That State cannot do one damn thing right.

I live in AZ and when the Pinal County sheriff is talking about drug transactions from cartels occurring on his land 40 miles away from one of the US’s largest cities and how his deputies are starting to fear for their lives, I think I’ll listen to what he thinks needs done rather than your usual ramblings.

If you have a diluted State Department, there will be nobody to work with the local authorities. How are you not getting this?

 

[thewop]

The wall is the least effective thing Trump wants to do. I couldn't personally care less if it's built. Taking further measures to understand who is entering our country, where, and when, and regulating it is a good move to make (i.e. enforce current laws). Things like restricting chain migration, visa lottery, and measures to discourage people from overstaying visa's are welcomed as well. We should make sure the people who are here are contributors. Furthermore, deportation of criminal aliens should be a no brainer, and "sanctuary cities/states" should face consequence for failure to cooperate. In fact, once in custody, there should probably be more onus on law enforcement to ensure criminal aliens don't re-enter society freely than there currently is.

We owe it to ourselves to know whose here. It's not the number of people here, it's whether they behave, and are contributors to society. We'd be in a world of hurt without construction workers, agricultural workers, and most of all, golf course employees.

People seeking political asylum are in a totally different category, as are refugees. We should, however, still understand who's entering and what their background is whenever possible, even when they're refugees.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

How does a wall, which probably won't do much to stop illegal immigration, stop future administrations from getting lax on border security?

If you think the wall is so ineffective then why not let it happen and laugh when it fails? Then you can say without a doubt that we tried it and it failed. After that, the Dems can award a $100B+ contract to an environmental firm (not including usual kickbacks) to tear it down and use only LGBTQUXYF to do the work and ensure that no ground squirrels and shrews are harmed (that’ll cost another $50B).

You’ll be able to say you are right and laugh all the way to the bank? If you are wrong and America is safer and our existing immigration laws are upheld then that’s good too right?

Win win Huey. Win win.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Well, first off they would have to physically remove the wall and then publicly explain why they were doing that....

Are you being facetious in this thread? Apologies if my detector is off.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

If you have a diluted State Department, there will be nobody to work with the local authorities. How are you not getting this?

Well considering I was a liaison with the State in my prior life, I know they they do not need additional funding to make phone calls, send/receive emails, send facsimiles, and talk with local law enforcement. All that really doesn’t cost that much. A lot of the intel they need comes from other departments who have their own budgets.

 

[Huey Grey]

Well considering I was a liaison with the State in my prior life, I know they they do not need additional funding to make phone calls, send/receive emails, send facsimiles, and talk with local law enforcement. All that really doesn’t cost that much. A lot of the intel they need comes from other departments who have their own budgets.

I call bullshit on you being liaison. Namely because anybody who ever worked for the State Department would know that you have to pay staff to make all these phone calls in order to launch investigations with local authorities. And as for phone calls not costing much, I agree. But the physical embassies that these State Department employees place these calls out of do cost a lot of money as well as the salaries of the people making them. You would think someone who had supposedly worked for the State Department would know this.

 

[Hawk8595]

Well, first off they would have to physically remove the wall and then publicly explain why they were doing that....

Are you being facetious in this thread? Apologies if my detector is off.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Obviously it will impact things, that is why the dems are fighting it so hard. If the wall would be ineffective, then the Dems would Take Trump's deal for DACA for a fully funded wall. They get DACA, and we get an ineffective worthless wall. But instead, the Dems are willing to throw the Dreamers under the bus, just to prevent the wall from getting built (which makes no sense if the wall does not work).

This is a weird response.

First, spending $25 billion on something that won't work isn't something anyone should agree with.

Second, with a clear majority of Americans on the Dems' side regarding DACA, why should the Dems have to trade anything to get a decent DACA resolution?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I call bullshit on you being liaison. Namely because anybody who ever worked for the State Department would know that you have to pay staff to make all these phone calls in order to launch investigations with local authorities. And as for phone calls not costing much, I agree. But the physical embassies that these State Department employees place these calls out of do cost a lot of money as well as the salaries of the people making them. You would think someone who had supposedly worked for the State Department would know this.

No BS. Worked 8 years for a major US airline and during that time, I worked as a liaison with the State and have friends there. Very familiar with their operations in the field. You make it sound like they have no money which is not accurate. We all would love to have more money but that’s not how the world works Huey. They have what they need to do a good job and the employees there genuinely do. What the State doesn’t have in Mexico is local authorities who care since they are corrupt and raising their budget won’t fix that unless we decide it is just OK for our State Dept to just start paying ransoms (which makes the problem worse which is why we don’t do it in the first place, at least on the books).

Go on and continue being hard-headed and argue away.

 

[srams21]

Problem is that the next administration could just as easily decide to get lax on border security,... We've been down this path too many times, and to be quite honest, we've learned that our government can't be trusted to consistently enforce the laws on our books...

That's great except a wall won't stop the problems this administration claims it will.

So then we are left with a $100 Billion+ piece of infrastructure. All this after we just cut tax revenue.

Gosh, I wonder why we have such huge deficit. What the f happened to fiscal cons? Did your balls drop off?

 

[Huey Grey]

No BS. Worked 8 years for a major US airline and during that time, I worked as a liaison with the State and have friends there. Very familiar with their operations in the field. You make it sound like they have no money which is not accurate. We all would love to have more money but that’s not how the world works Huey. They have what they need to do a good job and the employees there genuinely do. What the State doesn’t have in Mexico is local authorities who care since they are corrupt and raising their budget won’t fix that unless we decide it is just OK for our State Dept to just start paying ransoms (which makes the problem worse which is why we don’t do it in the first place, at least on the books).

Go on and continue being hard-headed and argue away.

I encourage you to view my newly started thread over Trump wanting to gut the State Department by 25%. As for cuts, Trump has already directed the State Department to slash the number of people it employs by 8%. So not only are they facing a budgetary crunch, they are facing a staffing crunch as well. Not a smart strategy considering that the State Department is also responsible for many of the trade deals we have. Less people means we have less salesmen to pitch our exports worldwide.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I encourage you to view my newly started thread over Trump wanting to gut the State Department by 25%. As for cuts, Trump has already directed the State Department to slash the number of people it employs by 8%. So not only are they facing a budgetary crunch, they are facing a staffing crunch as well. Not a smart strategy considering that the State Department is also responsible for many of the trade deals we have. Less people means we have less salesmen to pitch our exports worldwide.

Meh, we all know you despise any policy that does not fit your own narrative so I’ll save myself the 1 minute.