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Supreme Court unanimously rules that Boston violated the constitution by refusing to allow a Christian flag....

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
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Washington (CNN)The Supreme Court unanimously ruled Monday that Boston violated the First Amendment rights of a group seeking to briefly raise a Christian flag atop a city flagpole outside of City Hall as a part of a city program celebrating Boston's greater community.

The court said that the flag display amounted to a public forum, and because many other groups were allowed to raise their flags in celebration of the Boston community, the city could not discriminate on the basis of the religious group's viewpoint without violating the Constitution.

"We conclude that, on balance, Boston did not make the raising and flying of private groups' flags a form of government speech," Justice Stephen Breyer wrote.

The case was filed in 2018 after a Boston official denied the application by the group Camp Constitution to raise a flag -- described as "Christian" in the application -- on one of the three flagpoles outside Boston's city hall. The group is an all-volunteer association that seeks to "enhance understanding of the country's Judeo-Christian moral heritage."

Central to the case was whether the flagpole is perceived as an example of government speech. If so, the city has a right to limit displays without violating free speech principles. The Free Speech Clause of the Constitution restricts government regulation of private speech, it does not regulate government speech.

But if, on the other hand, the display amounts to private speech, in a government-created forum where others are invited to express their views, the government cannot discriminate based on the viewpoint of one of the speakers.

Breyer concluded that the flag-raising program "does not express government speech."

All of the justices agreed on the outcome of the case, but three conservative justices said they had different reasons for ruling against Boston.

Justice Samuel Alito, writing for Justices Neil Gorsuch and Clarence Thomas, said that though the court relied upon "history, the public's perception of who is speaking, and the extent to which the government has exercised control over speech" to determine that the flag-raising program did not amount to government speech, he would have analyzed the case based on a more exacting definition of what constitutes government speech.

Under a more narrow definition of government speech, Alito wrote that it occurs "if -- but only if" a government "purposefully expresses a message of its own through persons authorized to speak on its behalf."

He said the flag program in Boston "cannot possibly constitute government speech" because the city never deputized private speakers and that the various flags flown under the program "reflected a dizzying and contradictory array of perspectives that cannot be understood to express the message of a single speaker."

Boston occasionally allows private groups to fly flags, which are often flags from different countries, on one of the flag poles as part of a program to celebrate various Boston communities. The flag-raising events are in connection with ethnic and other cultural celebrations or the arrival of dignitaries from other countries or to commemorate historic events.

According to Camp Constitution, Boston in the 12 years prior had approved 284 other flags that private organizations had sought to raise as part of the program and no other previous applications had been rejected.

In a case of unusual bedfellows, the conservative Christian group seeking to fly its flag gained the support of both the Biden administration and the American Civil Liberties Union.

 
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Breyer did a good job crafting a fact-based decision which avoided having to confront the elephant in the room: Lemon and its progeny. (BTW, this is one of those disturbingly more common cases where the record is not in fact as clear as you'd expect it to be in a case before the court.) I also liked his kick to the nuts that he gave to the brutalist architecture of the Boston City Hall.

On the Lemon front, Gorsuch had the money quotes about how government agencies have "used" the case, as usual:

Ultimately, Lemon devolved into a kind of children’s game. Start with a Christmas scene, a menorah, or a flag. Then pick your own “reasonable observer” avatar. In this game, the avatar’s default settings are lazy, uninformed about history, and not particularly inclined to legal research. His default mood is irritable. To play, expose your avatar to the display and ask for his reaction. How does he feel about it? Mind you: Don’t ask him whether the proposed display actually amounts to an establishment of religion. Just ask him if he feels it “endorses” religion. If so, game over.

and...

Lemon may promote an unserious, results-oriented approach to constitutional interpretation. But for some, that may be more a virtue than a vice. There is more than a little in the record before us to suggest this line of thinking. As city officials tell it, Boston did not want to “‘display flags deemed to be inappropriate or offensive in nature or those supporting discrimination, prejudice, or religious movements.’” Instead, the city wanted to celebrate only “a particular kind of diversity.” And if your policy goal is to lump in religious speech with fighting words and obscenity, if it is to celebrate only a “particular” type of diversity consistent with popular ideology, the First Amendment is not exactly your friend. Dragging Lemon from its grave may be your only chance.
 
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Congrats on guaranteeing seeing this above your town hall someday.
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BTW, given Breyer's fact-based approach to whether the display amounted to a form of government speech, it will be interesting to see what the Court does with the kneeling football coach. In that case too, the G argued that it took its action based on Establishment Clause fears. It would be odd, if you ask me, for the Court to decide the Boston case the way it did, and then to craft some new rule or approach just a month or two later in the football case.
 
BTW, given Breyer's fact-based approach to whether the display amounted to a form of government speech, it will be interesting to see what the Court does with the kneeling football coach. In that case too, the G argued that it took its action based on Establishment Clause fears. It would be odd, if you ask me, for the Court to decide the Boston case the way it did, and then to craft some new rule or approach just a month or two later in the football case.

The football coach is going to win, too. Might not be unanimous, but he'll win.
 
BTW, given Breyer's fact-based approach to whether the display amounted to a form of government speech, it will be interesting to see what the Court does with the kneeling football coach. In that case too, the G argued that it took its action based on Establishment Clause fears. It would be odd, if you ask me, for the Court to decide the Boston case the way it did, and then to craft some new rule or approach just a month or two later in the football case.
I read the oral argument transcript the other day. The difference in that case is the possibility the coach might favor those who participated in the prayers over those who didn't.
 
I read the oral argument transcript the other day. The difference in that case is the possibility the coach might favor those who participated in the prayers over those who didn't.

The mere possibility of that happening doesn't override his own personal right to pray where ever the hell he wants to pray.
 
I read the oral argument transcript the other day. The difference in that case is the possibility the coach might favor those who participated in the prayers over those who didn't.
That’ll certainly be the argument, though the facts of record actually showed he made two kids who expressed discomfort captains.

My main point is it’ll probably come down to some very subjective judgements about perceptions of coercion or government endorsement. So per my post above, maybe gorsuch really is spot on.
 
That’ll certainly be the argument, though the facts of record actually showed he made two kids who expressed discomfort captains.

My main point is it’ll probably come down to some very subjective judgements about perceptions of coercion or government endorsement. So per my post above, maybe gorsuch really is spot on.
As a Libertarian / Strict Constructionist, I tend to agree with Gorsuch most of the time.
 
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And now the flag of the Church of Satan will be flying above this building before too long. Congrats.
 
As a Libertarian / Strict Constructionist, I tend to agree with Gorsuch most of the time.
He is my judicial hero. Why? Because like pretty much no other justice, when you read his opinions, you get the feeling that there is a single, living, breathing human being on the other side of the pen. Even if (or maybe because) he does use contractions.
 
There's no evidence that he did that.
Will we need another court case if that happens? This SCOTUS is being asked to rule on the Constitutional issue. Is that issue denying a coach the right to pray? IS the issue one of government endorsement of religion? Or is it simply employment law? If those questions were all easily answered, the case probably wouldn't have made it to SCOTUS. I'd be willing to wager that coercion is mentioned in the decision, one way or another. Are you willing to bet against me?
 
Will we need another court case if that happens? This SCOTUS is being asked to rule on the Constitutional issue. Is that issue denying a coach the right to pray? IS the issue one of government endorsement of religion? Or is it simply employment law? If those questions were all easily answered, the case probably wouldn't have made it to SCOTUS. I'd be willing to wager that coercion is mentioned in the decision, one way or another. Are you willing to bet against me?

Government employees should not have to leave their faith at the front door of their workplace.

Geezus... Muslims are required to have prayer breaks several times a day, whether they work for the government or not! You think anyone is infringing on THOSE rights???
 
Government employees should not have to leave their faith at the front door of their workplace.

Geezus... Muslims are required to have prayer breaks several times a day, whether they work for the government or not! You think anyone is infringing on THOSE rights???
I agree that people shouldn't have to leave their faith behind. You really should read the case transcript.

Do you think it's OK for the coach to ask hos team, or the other team, to participate in his prayers?
 
I agree that people shouldn't have to leave their faith behind. You really should read the case transcript.

Do you think it's OK for the coach to ask hos team, or the other team, to participate in his prayers?

I have no issue with a voluntary prayer circle at some point in a football game, as long as it's totally voluntary no one is being expected to participate. That's how the line should be drawn.
 
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The football coach is going to win, too. Might not be unanimous, but he'll win.
If he does, that is a net loss for the United States of America. Just remember Trad, if he does win...and you hope he does...when this shit comes to work against what you like, remember to shut your phuquin' mouth and live with the consequences.
If those football players of this coach were real men, they would walk back to the bus/dressing room about the time coach says..."Boys, let us Bow your heads".....Postgame is neither the time nor the place for a Christian prayer of thanks....
 
If he does, that is a net loss for the United States of America. Just remember Trad, if he does win...and you hope he does...when this shit comes to work against what you like, remember to shut your phuquin' mouth and live with the consequences.
If those football players of this coach were real men, they would walk back to the bus/dressing room about the time coach says..."Boys, let us Bow your heads".....Postgame is neither the time nor the place for a Christian prayer of thanks....

I'm going to take the side of liberty here. You think whatever you want.
 
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I read the oral argument transcript the other day. The difference in that case is the possibility the coach might favor those who participated in the prayers over those who didn't.

Yeah, it’s hard to seriously argue there is no coercion going on.
 
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I have no issue with a voluntary prayer circle at some point in a football game, as long as it's totally voluntary no one is being expected to participate. That's how the line should be drawn.

There is no way to measure whether or not it is truly voluntary. Just as “voluntary” morning runs, “voluntary” summer programs, and any other host of “voluntary” team activities come with a heavy dose of understanding that choosing not to participate is apt to not bode well for you, not participating in a prayer circle will always be understood to be something you must do not just to be in good graces with the coaching staff, but also with your teammates.

The difference is those other activities genuinely help your performance, while this once merely makes sure you stand out if your religious views don’t match the coach’s.

It is truly an awful thing he is doing. Awful, unAmerican, and illegal by any fair standard.
 
There is no way to measure whether or not it is truly voluntary. Just as “voluntary” morning runs, “voluntary” summer programs, and any other host of “voluntary” team activities come with a heavy dose of understanding that choosing not to participate is apt to not bode well for you, not participating in a prayer circle will always be understood to be something you must do not just to be in good graces with the coaching staff, but also with your teammates.

The difference is those other activities genuinely help your performance, while this once merely makes sure you stand out if your religious views don’t match the coach’s.

It is truly an awful thing he is doing. Awful, unAmerican, and illegal by any fair standard.

BS. Americans have been praying since the nation was born.

"Freedom of religion" has been turned on its head by progressives.
 
I'm going to take the side of liberty here. You think whatever you want.
What about those kids who gave the liberty of freedim FROM religion? Or dont those kids have rights in the Trad workplace? What right does this coach have to lead the team in postgame prayer?? The right of “intimidation”?
Personally, I think it is unconscionable an adult think he have the right to lead his team in prayer after a damn game. If kids wanna take a knee ON THEIR OWN, perhaps… but I would hope “good taste” would dictate other action.
 
What about those kids who gave the liberty of freedim FROM religion? Or dont those kids have rights in the Trad workplace? What right does this coach have to lead the team in postgame prayer?? The right of “intimidation”?
Personally, I think it is unconscionable an adult think he have the right to lead his team in prayer after a damn game. If kids wanna take a knee ON THEIR OWN, perhaps… but I would hope “good taste” would dictate other action.

No one has to participate. That's the point.
 
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No one has to participate. That's the point.

With respect Trad, I think it’s naive to think at least some of those players wouldn’t feel pressure to participate.

I guess I don’t understand why this coach feels he HAS to have a postgame prayer circle on the field in view of everyone. Why can’t this happen in private, where there’s less pressure to participate?
 
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As I recall, some of the better players on his team did not participate and there were no adverse consequenes. There was zero evidence pointing the other way. Under these circumstances, how could the Court find it was inherently coercive. The right to practice religion would be seriously erroded if this imaginary excercise was written into the equation.
 
With respect Trad, I think it’s naive to think at least some of those players wouldn’t feel pressure to participate.

I guess I don’t understand why this coach feels he HAS to have a postgame prayer circle on the field in view of everyone. Why can’t this happen in private, where there’s less pressure to participate?

Why should he have to worship in private? He has an individual right to pray where ever and whenever he wants.
 
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Why should he have to worship in private? He has an individual right to pray where ever and whenever he wants.

Sometimes a balance has to be struck. There’s no reason to think that a public prayer circle doesn’t put undue pressure on kids who otherwise not wish to participate.
 
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