Sweden Provides Free Higher Education, Universal Healthcare, Free Daycare — Why Can’t the U.S.?

[billanole]

Yet we all are a part of the same system, maybe operating at different levels but still within the same system (sadly though not all operating under the same rules, that is the ish we need to get fixed).

The most important things we need in place are:

1. Everyone has the ability to succeed and move up to a higher wealth/income class. Doesn’t need to be guaranteed but that ability needs to be there.
2. That ability needs to be there and it needs to be honest. Doesn’t mean everyone gets the same amount opportunity (that will never happen) but that we all play by the same rule set. It’s why criminal justice reform and drug law changes are desperately needed in our country bc they create a different and much harsher set of rules for POC and lower economic people in general (regardless of race).

Good Post, although I would suggest that moving up in wealth/class is overrated.
Most folks I interact with just want:
quality options for their children’s education and safety,
to get their money’s worth in paying taxes/getting services,
have a chance at decent employment/access to markets,
have access to quality infrastructure and utilities at a fair cost,
municipal, state and federal leaders dedicated to the above...
Almost everything else is in bonus land, tho many will declare safe borders/ national defense to rate high on the list. To me, that is mostly chest beating skit.

 

[billanole]

You can’t operate a country like the US in the same way you do a country like Sweden. It’s like trying to compare apples and oranges. Go up and read my thread on why federalism is the better approach for large land mass countries w diverse cultures. What works here won’t work in Sweden and what works in Sweden probably won’t work here (on a national level).

Now some of those things could absolutely work at a state level but that won’t happen bc the federal govt sucks up so much of the tax resources of the country.

like I have said 100 times, I’d rather give the state of Iowa 25-30% of my money in taxes and the fed 7.5%. With this approach we would be able to start doing some of the things Sweden is doing. We will never do it as effectively at the federal level though bc of the cultural differences in a country as large and diverse as ours.

Just like Trad, (oops, I apologize) I think you are lumping all of the Swedes into a similar bucket. Just like us, they are not all homogenous.
I agree about paying more taxes locally and receiving services thusly.
Follow the money and realize why our health care “system” underperforms... that is the origin of this thread.

 

[unIowa]

Just like Trad, (oops, I apologize) I think you are lumping all of the Swedes into a similar bucket. Just like us, they are not all homogenous.
I agree about paying more taxes locally and receiving services thusly.
Follow the money and realize why our health care “system” underperforms... that is the origin of this thread.

I am sorry you don't understand what I was getting at in regards to proximity and shared values. I also did state that some would think that meant just race, so I tried to point out that wasn't 100% what I was getting at.

Nearly 70% of Americans over 45 have prediabetes, nutrition is our biggest issue on why we under-perform. Fix that and those other issues become a lot lot smaller.

 

[unIowa]

Good Post, although I would suggest that moving up in wealth/class is overrated.
Most folks I interact with just want:
quality options for their children’s education and safety,
to get their money’s worth in paying taxes/getting services,
have a chance at decent employment/access to markets,
have access to quality infrastructure and utilities at a fair cost,
municipal, state and federal leaders dedicated to the above...
Almost everything else is in bonus land, tho many will declare safe borders/ national defense to rate high on the list. To me, that is mostly chest beating skit.

Most the folks I interact with already have those things so they want to create sustainable and lasting wealth for their loved ones.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The tax rate for those making about $50k per year is 52%. It is 57% for those making above about $71,000. The U.S. taxes are less than half that. More importantly, Sweden spends about 5% of its budget on military. Double taxes on the middle class and cut the U.S. military budget to 5% of spending and we would have a shitload more to spend on social welfare.

Sounds like a good argument for doubling taxes and slashing the military budget.

I'm guessing you didn't intend that, but that seems like a good trade-off to me.

As an aside, I wonder what Swedes pay in state and local taxes.

Back in the oughts, when I was earning around $50K, I paid 54% total income taxes after adding up fed, state and local. That wasn't counting real estate tax or sales tax or gas tax or.... Just income taxes. I have no idea how Sweden's tax system works but it's a small country. Maybe the 52-57% numbers you cite represent all their income taxes? It would be interesting to know.

 

[ClarindaA's]

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Homogenous and harmonious society with similar values towards work.

 

[86Hawkeye]

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Nothing is free, even though you think that's not true.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Nothing is free, even though you think that's not true.

Always fun to hear from HROT's shallow end of the pool.

In other news, water is wet.

 

[Gonolz]

Back in the oughts, when I was earning around $50K, I paid 54% total income taxes after adding up fed, state and local. That wasn't counting real estate tax or sales tax or gas tax or.... Just income taxes. Maybe the 52-57% numbers you cite represent all their income taxes? It would be interesting to know.

No, you didn't. Making an absurd statement like that proves that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The number I quoted was all income taxes and their marginal rates. You didn't pay marginal rates at the level you claim and your effective tax rate was even lower than your marginal rate. The highest marginal federal tax rate you would have paid at that income level was 28%.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

 

[IamHawkeye]

Has nothing to do with "race"... people in Georgia are WAAY different than people in New Hampshire.

Sweden doesn't have these sorts of differences.

More than you know, they do.

 

[Finance85]

Nothing is provided for free.

 

[desihawk]

Maybe they have a more equitable (though not necessarily more capable) healthcare system but nobody is going to want to swap living here with the swedes. Nobody might be a stretch assuming (I dont know for sure) that the most deprived are better served there. This can be addressed more efficiently here once we luck someday into decent leadership.

That said those who’ve travelled to these other alleged utopias or know people from there find these threads hilarious — even after burdening ourselves with a variety of crappy systems, overall Stanzi was right in saying USA number one and it’s not close.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Has nothing to do with "race"... people in Georgia are WAAY different than people in New Hampshire.

Sweden doesn't have these sorts of differences.

Are they different in their need to see a doctor?

 

[ClarindaA's]

Are they different in their need to see a doctor?

Yes, lifestyles and levels of education along with cultural values

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Does Sweden also have 57 different states?

 

[camickle]

Look what they get for the taxes paid. You would love to realize those benefits.

Only, I dont think there is any way they could provide the same for the same in taxes. We have too much dead weight as we are already a nation with half collecting government benefits.

 

[Tom Paris]

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Because wasting billions on defense contracts.

 

[Tom Paris]

Do they try and police the entire free world ?

do they have more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined?

how many illegals do they let in and keep?

what is their foreign aid toral they give away.

Well there you go...we waste trillions on others instead of taking care of our own...which is what Trump said he was going to do. Instead of America First it has been Trump First. We waste so much money that could cover our own health care for all. Instead we all get effed by the health care racket. This has been both a Democrat and Republican problem. Quit sending billions overseas until we get the homeland taken care of. Pisses me off.

 

[Tom Paris]

That's bullshit. Wages are rapidly rising, especially for the lowest paid. The media isn't reporting this, but I'm witnessing the relentless upward pressure on labor costs.

Of course, the pinch now is on the first-level supervisors. They all want raises because the starting wages of the line staff are rising.

Next will be the middle managers bitching and moaning, even though they're perfectly well-paid.

And on and on it goes.

In any case, the media narrative about wage stagnation is an old story that's simply not true today.

Middle class wages are not rising...not enough to cover health care and college costs...and everything else...food prices, etc...

 

[Tom Paris]

Soooo, Make America First?

Trump removed 100 soldiers from Turkey and the left acted like the world was going to end.

He didn't bring them home. JFC. It didn't save money.

 

[Tom Paris]

yes for what we spent on the Iraq war we could have national works program, new infrastructure and health care.

who were the liars that pushed us into war with Iraq ? controlled corporate media and neoliberals/neocons of both parties. Tulsi says one word against our meddling in Syria and MSNBC and the other demonrat candidates scream and accuse her of "appeasing assad the evil dictator"....what a crock of $ht

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice. Those were the liars.

 

[Urohawk]

Something is missing from this thread:

This guy gets it. A true HROT hero.

 

[86Hawkeye]

Always fun to hear from HROT's shallow end of the pool.

In other news, water is wet.

In other words, you've got nothing.

 

[BigDelHawk]

Sweden has a positive Trade balance and a debt Ratio to GDP of less than 40%. The debt Ratio for the USA is 105%. This plus the more homogeneous society means that they can pull this off, we cannot afford it here.

 

[Finance85]

Nearly 70% of Americans over 45 have prediabetes, nutrition is our biggest issue on why we under-perform. Fix that and those other issues become a lot lot smaller.

The amount of added sugar, and white carbs we consume is mind boggling.

 

[Joes Place]

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When these folks show up protesting their elected leaders for "free healthcare, free higher education, free daycare"......it's just kinda a slam dunk those all get passed.

 

[Finance85]

When these folks show up protesting their elected leaders for "free healthcare, free higher education, free daycare"......it's just kinda a slam dunk those all get passed.

Your best post EVER!!!! You've found your niche. Please stay with it.

 

[unIowa]

The amount of added sugar, and white carbs we consume is mind boggling.

It is quite literally killing our society from the inside out and yet our govt puts the base of the food pyramid as much of those white, refined and even whole grain carbs...they all turn into sugar in your body once consumed.

 

[Joes Place]

It is quite literally killing our society from the inside out and yet our govt puts the base of the food pyramid as much of those white, refined and even whole grain carbs...they all turn into sugar in your body once consumed.

But the food pyramid calls for whole-grains, doesn't it?

That puts virtually any processed breakfast cereal in the 'junk food' column....

 

[unIowa]

But the food pyramid calls for whole-grains, doesn't it?

That puts virtually any processed breakfast cereal in the 'junk food' column....

Breakfast cereals are basically junk food. Hell some junk foods have less of an impact on blood sugar and insulin levels than corn/wheat flake cereals which almost immediately get converted into glucose upon ingestion.

Whole grains may slow the process of carbohydrates getting converted into glucose so while someone would avoid a blood sugar spike (important for diabetics and those with metabolic syndrome) all you are really doing is creating an environment of prolonged elevated blood sugar and thus prolonged elevated insulin levels. Then if you eat quickly metabolized carbs along with your whole grains all you have done is created both a short term and extended increase of blood sugars and insulin, in those with healthy insulin sensitivity this shouldn't be an issue as long as they are not long on carbs. For those who have metabolic syndrome this is disaster and some believe that right now 70% of adults over 45 have some level of insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome...many of these people are skinny and just have no idea.

There is some interesting info available on this stuff out there and once you start getting into it you see how effed society is with how we consume food today. The challenge as I see it is our govt won't put out better guidelines to help either bc frankly the types of foods that dominate our society may not be nourishing but they are cheap and in ample supply. For a growing global population it appears the food guidelines will stay in place for some time as it could be the only way to feed this size of population in an economical manner.

It isn't a problem that people eat some of these things, the problem is we collectively just eat far too many of them in which point people start developing chronic diseases.

 

[Joes Place]

Breakfast cereals are basically junk food. Hell some junk foods have less of an impact on blood sugar and insulin levels than corn/wheat flake cereals which almost immediately get converted into glucose upon ingestion.

Whole grains may slow the process their carbohydrates getting converted into glucose so while someone would avoid a blood sugar spike (important for diabetics and those with metabolic syndrome) all you are really doing is creating an environment of prolonged elevated blood sugar and thus prolonged elevated insulin levels.

Avoiding the spikes is why they don't have the same effect of triggering so much fat generation. Plus, the added fiber also buffers digestion times, and has the added benefit of making people feel fuller, longer, so you don't binge on so much refined, processed grains and flours.

Posted on this before, but Steel Cut Oats > Rolled Oats > Instant Oats in terms of how healthy they are for you.

 

[unIowa]

Avoiding the spikes is why they don't have the same effect of triggering so much fat generation. Plus, the added fiber also buffers digestion times, and has the added benefit of making people feel fuller, longer, so you don't binge on so much refined, processed grains and flours.

Posted on this before, but Steel Cut Oats > Rolled Oats > Instant Oats in terms of how healthy they are for you.

Right but how many people have a coke or potato chips with their whole grain bread sandwich??? Then once you are metabolically broken you are best to just avoid all of these types of foods outside of the special occasions one has in their life and like I said near or over 70% of those over 45 in the US are broken metabolically via insulin resistance (and that doesn't really go away).

Also, fiber isn't a necessity for good digestion for some it can be considered an irratant. I had always suffered a bit of IBS, once I stated dramatically reducing my cab intake to under 5% of my total daily food consumption that totally went away and I became more regular and things passed with much more ease. Have a sister in law that went clean low carb and she has been able to discontinue all of her acid reflux prescriptions as she had it pretty bad (late 30s and was having to sleep in a chair upright even when on meds, also she weighed in at around 130-135 pounds her whole life, always someone who has been in good shape) now she will only have reflux event if she loads up on wines that are high in acidity.