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Takeaways

Nov 9, 2007
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Thanks to the fans that tried to help bring the Hawks back tonight. Was a tough game to get in to initially, but the crowd got going in the second half. Someday, someday, the opposing team will miss those 3 pointers, and you'll be rewarded for your faith.

My main takeaways. We are a team of mis-matched parts, with a lot of guys playing out of position. Sometimes that works in our favor, but often, particularly on defense, it does not.

Otherwise, I think 1) Tonight's loss will lead to improved rotations and minute distribution going forward, and Connor will not play significant minutes going forward except in rare situations, 2) Iowa will lose 2 or less games in the month of February.

Please keep the faith. No shame in losing to a strong Purdue team, especially when they shoot better in the game than they typically do in warm-ups unguarded.
Go Hawks
 
Iowa has a quality 2nd scorer Fran just doesn't know it. Kris needs to start and get 25-30mins a game. Run more of the offense through him. Take pressure off Keegan.

The 2 guard is the weakest spot on Iowa's roster. Iowa gets very little production from it and its a major defensive liability. Even Kris playing out of position at the 5 is better than Bohannon at the 2. Iowa can play small ball and win or even hang with the top of the conference but the 2 is a major liability.
 
Your comment on Connor by far, shows your clueless, on Frans total lack of caring how Iowa fans feel about Connors playing time, and that includes JBO running around the court with very little chance to get off clean 3 point shots.
Fran is running this program to end this season like most of you had predicted before it even started by his substitution gaffes and seems completely satisfied with the results.
And that's with the emergence of Keegan and Kris.
12 years of this and there's still people out there that defends him and his complete disregard for defense and responsibility from his players and coaches. Iowa fans deserve what they have and what they will get for years to come. ENJOY!
 
Your comment on Connor by far, shows your clueless, on Frans total lack of caring how Iowa fans feel about Connors playing time, and that includes JBO running around the court with very little chance to get off clean 3 point shots.
Fran is running this program to end this season like most of you had predicted before it even started by his substitution gaffes and seems completely satisfied with the results.
And that's with the emergence of Keegan and Kris.
12 years of this and there's still people out there that defends him and his complete disregard for defense and responsibility from his players and coaches. Iowa fans deserve what they have and what they will get for years to come. ENJOY!
Give us Alfraud and Lickliter!!
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.
Thank you see my recent thread.
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.
while I agree with what you have said I cannot agree with Fran Being as good as T Davis. I think when you look back Davis made it to The round of 16 more than once.
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.

One could also say that if Purdue shoots average on their FT's that it is a complete blowout.

A question to you. Why would the performance against Purdue cause Fran to change Connor's minutes? Was his play significantly worse compared to other games?
 
He wants to win, period.
I'm not so sure about that. Oh, he wants his teams to win. But win the WAY HE WANTS. And there's really no external pressure on him to change his ways. Many other coaches don't have the luxury of an incompetent AD giving away ridiculous extensions. They have to embrace the portal, not play their sons for extended minutes, expect their team to play D, etc. or risk losing their jobs if they don't adapt.
 
Tom Davis great with George’s players. How many coaches wouldn’t be? He was a ,500 B1G coach after they left, just like Fran.
Davis was 90-86 in big 10 play after the 89 season-and had 2 losing big 10 seasons overall.-
Chris Street Death was a huge blow to Davis and he has admitted it, but if you look at his last 4 yrs he was actually trending back very nicely and had a couple of 12-6 years there. along with 2 9-7 years.
Plus the BIG10 was a lot tougher conference in the 80's and 90's.....
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.
Multiple things can be true at the same time. Fran has done a decent to good job overall. The program was in a crater when Fran took over, closer to becoming Nebrasketball, Rutgers or Penn State than Purdue. And to be fair, Penn State has been in a Sweet 16 since Iowa has (look it up). Fran brought stability and has to be credited with identifying under the radar talent like the Murrays, Aaron White, Olaseni, Garza, etc. And Fran can also take some flack for his decisions about how the roster is constructed and who is playing. Fran has convinced himself that his son is a valuable player deserving regular rotation minutes, despite any statistical evidence to back it up. It is hurting this year's team, and my opinion is the reason Frederick is no longer here.

This team, even if playing rotations were different, has some flaws that would preclude it from finishing near the top of the Big 10. That's actually fine, Illinois and Purdue are very good. But the opportunities for growth in some young players are being stymied.
 
Fran will roll out the same starting lineup every game---only thing that would change things is a 4-5 game losing streak and Fran's reaction to a losing streak would be to start both his boys.

CMAC minutes will not change....he is due for a game where he makes a couple 3 pt shots this season.

The 2G position is a disaster. There are 3 non-choices....JBO, CMAC, Perkins....Perkins can score a little off dribble but he has lost his shot....of the three options, he is only one with youth/upside...so that means he plays the least under Fran ball.

Since Keegan, Kris, PMac all handle the ball pretty well, they already all alre sort of interchangeable on perimeter on offense and can help bring the ball up. I am curious if Sandfort could play some some shooting guard....he won't shoot worse than JBO and at least his size and ability to switch means he isn't a guy that gets abused on defense and is plus rebounder.
 
Davis was 90-86 in big 10 play after the 89 season-and had 2 losing big 10 seasons overall.-
Chris Street Death was a huge blow to Davis and he has admitted it, but if you look at his last 4 yrs he was actually trending back very nicely and had a couple of 12-6 years there. along with 2 9-7 years.
Plus the BIG10 was a lot tougher conference in the 80's and 90's.....
Fran is 107-106 (.502) in the B1G. Almost the same as Dr. Tom. (.511) Give Fran Ravelings recruits in year 1 and Dr. Tom Lickliters recruits in year 1 and Fran has a better record. They are the same.
 
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Fran is 107-106 (.502) in the B1G. Almost the same as Dr. Tom. (.511) Give Fran Ravelings recruits in year 1 and Dr. Tom Lickliters recruits in year 1 and Fran has a better record. They are the same.
My issues with this are that Raveling could not do what Davis did with those players...and Davis did that with those players in his first year. The BIG was MUCH tougher in Davis's run then it is now. Fran had the COLLEGE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AND a good supporting cast last year.......and STILL could not get out of the first weekend of the NCAA's without getting blown out. Of note is that he also has another possible candidate for player of the year THIS year. And finally.........again, I am tired of not seeing Iowa play on the second weekend of the NCAA tourney. At the very least...Davis could get that accomplished. Simply put, they are not the same at this point.
 
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Multiple things can be true at the same time. Fran has done a decent to good job overall. The program was in a crater when Fran took over, closer to becoming Nebrasketball, Rutgers or Penn State than Purdue. And to be fair, Penn State has been in a Sweet 16 since Iowa has (look it up). Fran brought stability and has to be credited with identifying under the radar talent like the Murrays, Aaron White, Olaseni, Garza, etc. And Fran can also take some flack for his decisions about how the roster is constructed and who is playing. Fran has convinced himself that his son is a valuable player deserving regular rotation minutes, despite any statistical evidence to back it up. It is hurting this year's team, and my opinion is the reason Frederick is no longer here.

This team, even if playing rotations were different, has some flaws that would preclude it from finishing near the top of the Big 10. That's actually fine, Illinois and Purdue are very good. But the opportunities for growth in some young players are being stymied.
I think 12 years is enough time to stop talking about Fran moving Iowa from the Lickliter era. ISU went from 2 wins to being ranked in one year.
 
Fran is 107-106 (.502) in the B1G. Almost the same as Dr. Tom. (.511) Give Fran Ravelings recruits in year 1 and Dr. Tom Lickliters recruits in year 1 and Fran has a better record. They are the same.
And I would respond: Who do you think had a bigger role in developing Luka, Fran or Luka's family? Let's be honest Fran had very little to do with it other that providing a system that got him the ball. Conditioning, post moves, and intensity were provided by his off season workouts.
Take away Luka, what does Fran's record look like.
The Big ten was legit when Dr. Tom took over. The big 10 is good right now but nothing like it was in the late 80's
 
Iowa has a quality 2nd scorer Fran just doesn't know it. Kris needs to start and get 25-30mins a game. Run more of the offense through him. Take pressure off Keegan.

The 2 guard is the weakest spot on Iowa's roster. Iowa gets very little production from it and its a major defensive liability. Even Kris playing out of position at the 5 is better than Bohannon at the 2. Iowa can play small ball and win or even hang with the top of the conference but the 2 is a major liability.
That's true, which is why I wrote a while back that the starting lineup should be:

Keegan
PMac
Kris
Joe T
Sandfort

Bench, depending on matchups: Perkins, Rebraca, Ulis, Josh O, JBo, CMac

I've also agreed with those who say Fran can be as stubborn as KF. He trots the same starting lineup out there no matter what. His mass substitutions are often inscrutable. And Sandfort definitely needs JBo's minutes. It seems that all the surgeries have caught up with JBo. He can still hit a 3 now and then, but at crunch time when he used to be all but automatic . . . It's sad, really.

If Iowa can finish 10-10 in the league, that would be pretty good for this group. They'll be among the last in or first out of the NCAA. As many have said, that seems to be the ceiling for Fran.
 
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I think 12 years is enough time to stop talking about Fran moving Iowa from the Lickliter era. ISU went from 2 wins to being ranked in one year.
I was just pointing out Fran is what he is. He's not a terrible coach. He has not done a terrible job. Yes, TJ Otz has Iowa State ranked. Iowa has been ranked plenty in Fran's tenure, and ranked higher than ISU was this year. I'm not arguing that Fran is a better/worse coach that ISU's guy, what he's done in 1 year has been remarkable.

Just trying to put Fran's tenure in context. Barta is obviously happy with what he's done. Not saying that is right or wrong, just the way it is.
 
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And I would respond: Who do you think had a bigger role in developing Luka, Fran or Luka's family? Let's be honest Fran had very little to do with it other that providing a system that got him the ball. Conditioning, post moves, and intensity were provided by his off season workouts.
Take away Luka, what does Fran's record look like.
The Big ten was legit when Dr. Tom took over. The big 10 is good right now but nothing like it was in the late 80's
There's plenty to blame coaches for, but by this standard should any coach get any credit for any player's development? It's like saying "yeah Purdue is good, but they'd be nothing without Ivey and Williams and etc. etc. The credit to coaches is in how they recruit, and how they deploy their playing style or adapt it to fit the players that they have.

Fran does deserve credit for having an offensive system where Garza could thrive., and for recognizing before others that Garza had the potential to be a really good player. The credit obviously goes to Garza for the improvements he made off-season every year (the same for any player).
 
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Thanks to the fans that tried to help bring the Hawks back tonight. Was a tough game to get in to initially, but the crowd got going in the second half. Someday, someday, the opposing team will miss those 3 pointers, and you'll be rewarded for your faith.

My main takeaways. We are a team of mis-matched parts, with a lot of guys playing out of position. Sometimes that works in our favor, but often, particularly on defense, it does not.

Otherwise, I think 1) Tonight's loss will lead to improved rotations and minute distribution going forward, and Connor will not play significant minutes going forward except in rare situations, 2) Iowa will lose 2 or less games in the month of February.

Please keep the faith. No shame in losing to a strong Purdue team, especially when they shoot better in the game than they typically do in warm-ups unguarded.
Go Hawks
I actually thought a light went on for Fran last night for a minute when he let the twins play extended minutes together and we hadn't seen Connor come in again after the debacle in the first half.

Purdues 5s became a liability on defense and Painter actually took both centers out to match up with Iowa.

Then as soon as Fran saw Painter go small he puts Connor back in.

Then of course Painter puts Williams right back in to "guard" Connor and the game got away.

Fran cannot get out of his own way with this JBO and Connor situation.
 
I actually thought a light went on for Fran last night for a minute when he let the twins play extended minutes together and we hadn't seen Connor come in again after the debacle in the first half.

Purdues 5s became a liability on defense and Painter actually took both centers out to match up with Iowa.

Then as soon as Fran saw Painter go small he puts Connor back in.

Then of course Painter puts Williams right back in to "guard" Connor and the game got away.

Fran cannot get out of his own way with this JBO and Connor situation.
I agree with this. My hope is the light really turns on for Fran when he watches the film with the twins in there. Kris is a problem for any big to guard, and the difficulty is amplified when Keagan is in there and hypothetically some shooters. (please let Sandfort take Connor's minutes!)
 
I agree with this. My hope is the light really turns on for Fran when he watches the film with the twins in there. Kris is a problem for any big to guard, and the difficulty is amplified when Keagan is in there and hypothetically some shooters. (please let Sandfort take Connor's minutes!)
This is whats so aggravating about this season.

The pieces are there but Fran wants to pretend like he has the same team as last year.

No body else in the country has two guys like the Murrays who can defend the 5 and play like a guard on offense.

But you have to play them together to force the right matchups.
 
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Thanks to the fans that tried to help bring the Hawks back tonight. Was a tough game to get in to initially, but the crowd got going in the second half. Someday, someday, the opposing team will miss those 3 pointers, and you'll be rewarded for your faith.

My main takeaways. We are a team of mis-matched parts, with a lot of guys playing out of position. Sometimes that works in our favor, but often, particularly on defense, it does not.

Otherwise, I think 1) Tonight's loss will lead to improved rotations and minute distribution going forward, and Connor will not play significant minutes going forward except in rare situations, 2) Iowa will lose 2 or less games in the month of February.

Please keep the faith. No shame in losing to a strong Purdue team, especially when they shoot better in the game than they typically do in warm-ups unguarded.
Go Hawks
See bold. Hope you are right, but I think FM will not change anything.
 
Why would Fran care about Iowa fans’ expectations for Connor’s minutes? He wants to win, period. Right now the roster has some issues; guards that can’t shoot, wings that aren’t quick or bouncy enough, and no true post. Sure the roster is his responsibility, but he also had some shit luck losing his post (Nunge), his wing (Weiskamp), and his shooter (Frederick). Even so, if Purdue shoots average, it’s a tight game tonight.

Otherwise, Iowa fans have experienced a single Sweet 16 appearance since the 80’s, Fran has certainly done no worse than his predecessors in the last 3 decades, and has put Iowa back at least to the Tom Davis quality.
see bold. FM wants to win but not at the expense of his sons playing time. He has proven that time and time again.
 
I was just pointing out Fran is what he is. He's not a terrible coach. He has not done a terrible job. Yes, TJ Otz has Iowa State ranked. Iowa has been ranked plenty in Fran's tenure, and ranked higher than ISU was this year. I'm not arguing that Fran is a better/worse coach that ISU's guy, what he's done in 1 year has been remarkable.

Just trying to put Fran's tenure in context. Barta is obviously happy with what he's done. Not saying that is right or wrong, just the way it is.
The transfer portal wasn’t really a thing when fran came in either, he was riding with lickliters recruits. Without the portal, how good/bad would isu be this year?
 
see bold. FM wants to win but not at the expense of his sons playing time. He has proven that time and time again.
C'mon, a very competitive Big Ten coach with millions on the line (and his legacy) wants to play his kids more than win? That's just not rational.
Now if you're saying he may unintentionally favor playing his kids because he believes they give his team the best chance to win, that's possible (though not probable in my view).

Connor just isn't the player from a few years ago, the analytics prove that out 20 games in, and I'm hoping Fran can admit that going forward. I'm hoping last night was THE night that made it clear to Fran. Guess we'll see...
 
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C'mon, a very competitive Big Ten coach with millions on the line (and his legacy) wants to play his kids more than win? That's just not rational.
Now if you're saying he may unintentionally favor playing his kids because he believes they give his team the best chance to win, that's possible (though not probable in my view).

Connor just isn't the player from a few years ago, the analytics prove that out 20 games in, and I'm hoping Fran can admit that going forward. I'm hoping last night was THE night that made it clear to Fran. Guess we'll see...
Yes, I am saying he will not sacrifice his kids playing time to put the best team on the floor to win. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
C'mon, a very competitive Big Ten coach with millions on the line (and his legacy) wants to play his kids more than win? That's just not rational.
Now if you're saying he may unintentionally favor playing his kids because he believes they give his team the best chance to win, that's possible (though not probable in my view).

Connor just isn't the player from a few years ago, the analytics prove that out 20 games in, and I'm hoping Fran can admit that going forward. I'm hoping last night was THE night that made it clear to Fran. Guess we'll see...
Im not really sure Connor is a different player. Its really that opposing coaches have figured out that he has a huge hole in his game.

He'd still be an effective player if they weren't aware he cant/won't shoot.
 
Yes, I am saying he will not sacrifice his kids playing time to put the best team on the floor to win. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Fair enough. If that were true, he should be fired immediately. And I'm not a "let's fire coaches" type of fan.
 
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Im not really sure Connor is a different player. Its really that opposing coaches have figured out that he has a huge hole in his game.

He'd still be an effective player if they weren't aware he cant/won't shoot.
Well, my memory could be off, but I swear a few years ago he was hitting from three point land above 35% (maybe higher?). If he was a 35-40% three point shooter, he's an asset.
 
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C'mon, a very competitive Big Ten coach with millions on the line (and his legacy) wants to play his kids more than win? That's just not rational.
Now if you're saying he may unintentionally favor playing his kids because he believes they give his team the best chance to win, that's possible (though not probable in my view).

Connor just isn't the player from a few years ago, the analytics prove that out 20 games in, and I'm hoping Fran can admit that going forward. I'm hoping last night was THE night that made it clear to Fran. Guess we'll see...
The thing is, there aren't really millions on the line for Fran. He is set. That big motivating factor that most coaches have is a minor issue for him. Of course he wants to win. But there is very little pressure on him to do any of the things that many other coaches must do to keep their jobs. This allows Fran the luxury of sticking with those to whom he has the closest ties(his sons and Bohannon) despite the fairly clear evidence that they do not warrant the playing time they are getting.
 
I don't understand your optimism that Fran will make any significant changes.

Conner has been an offensive liability the last two seasons and he still plays ahead of better players.

Any other player would have been dropped when they decided to play baseball.

This is what Fran's teams look like most of the time, outside of a couple seasons.
 
Well, my memory could be off, but I swear a few years ago he was hitting from three point land above 35% (maybe higher?). If he was a 35-40% three point shooter, he's an asset.
So he should play based upon his shooting his freshman year? Wow!!!!
 
Well, my memory could be off, but I swear a few years ago he was hitting from three point land above 35% (maybe higher?). If he was a 35-40% three point shooter, he's an asset.
Yeah, I think it was something like that his second year.

I forgot about that but at some point he decided he didn't want to shoot and it seems to have snowballed from there.

Its a mental problem now. Being purposely left wide open screws with your head and being defended by centers makes it worse.
 
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I don't understand your optimism that Fran will make any significant changes.

Conner has been an offensive liability the last two seasons and he still plays ahead of better players.

Any other player would have been dropped when they decided to play baseball.

This is what Fran's teams look like most of the time, outside of a couple seasons.
This is a fair critique. My optimism is a bit of a reach on the Connor piece I acknowledge. My thinking is last night was the most blatantly obvious example of Connor being a liability, and it comes on the heels of many poor games, with very poor statistics as well. Kind of a turning point, if you will.
 
Yeah, I think it was something like that his second year.

I forgot about that but at some point he decided he didn't want to shoot and it seems to have snowballed from there.

Its a mental problem now. Being purposely left wide open screws with your head and being defended by centers makes it worse.
Agreed.

For what it's worth, just looked at his stats. That 19-20 season, he was hitting 34% from deep and shooting free throws almost to 80%. Now, it's just not good enough to warrant minutes, unless we need someone to play the enforcer role.
STATS
2021-22
2020-21
2019-20
2018-19
2017-18

GPMINFG%3P%FT%REBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
1915.617.916.066.72.41.80.00.61.50.41.2
3122.832.427.758.63.13.60.10.62.61.03.3
3130.134.434.078.14.04.00.11.12.60.96.2
3418.636.120.775.31.43.00.10.71.81.34.4
413.366.750.075.01.01.80.00.50.51.02.0
 
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