Teachers protesting school openings are saying, "We're not essential."

[Herkyalert]

Very easy if you aren’t following safety measures. Otherwise it is not so easy.

But like I said before good luck making kids of all ages follow guidelines all day. Most kids can’t sit still for 15 min do you think they will wear a mask? Also, indoors the virus spreads a lot easier than outside. It’s a recipe for disaster to expect kids and staff will be totally safe.

 

[Herkyalert]

Look at how the flu can knock out groups of kids/staff from schools. This is way worse than the flu and spreads faster too.

 

[gohawks50]

Bio, are you not familiar with the teachers in NYC who've not been in a classroom in years but cannot be fired because of union rules?
Not being snarky. Check it out.

I looked it up and here is what the article says:

Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" — off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us_news-education/t/nyc-teachers-paid-do-nothing/

So they are waiting for hearings, do you think they don't deserve to tell their side of the story? Sounds like a problem with the district procedures which teachers have no control over.

Yes, there are bad teachers that need to be fired, but there are also good teachers who hold students accountable and make some parents angry for not making exceptions for their child.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

None of those people are stuck in a room with 20ish kids for 5-8 hours a day.

We could argue transmissibility - especially to and from children - all day but I just thought the selfless pursuit of sharing knowledge would dictate access to the classroom.

I mean, c'mon. You've been entrusted to mold the future generation, our most precious resource. Right?

 

[mcgrawfsu]

But like I said before good luck making kids of all ages follow guidelines all day. Most kids can’t sit still for 15 min do you think they will wear a mask? Also, indoors the virus spreads a lot easier than outside. It’s a recipe for disaster to expect kids and staff will be totally safe.

Are you a teacher? Are you worried about kids getting it or yourself? Seems like there is nothing that can be done to make you feel safe. May want to look into a different career. This thing isn’t going away anytime soon. The quicker you realize this and start trying to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem the better off you will be.

 

[seminoleed]

Are you in FL? What do you think of the pay increase? Sure helps attract new teachers but didn't do a lot for veteran teachers.

Nope. I'm in Georgia; we got a small step increase across the board. Just enough to keep me in beer....maybe.

 

[Finance85]

Yes it is.

No, it isn't.

My mom taught school for 40 years. My best friend is a 5th grade teacher. I personally know an elementary teacher who's had incidents that wouldn't be tolerated in any other job. It's very hard to fire teachers unless they are physically or sexually abusing kids.

 

[Herkyalert]

Are you a teacher? Are you worried about kids getting it or yourself? Seems like there is nothing that can be done to make you feel safe. May want to look into a different career. This thing isn’t going away anytime soon. The quicker you realize this and start trying to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem the better off you will be.

I’m not a teacher but my parents both were and I have plenty of friends who are.

It’s asinine to think they all can go back and it not be a mess.

 

[gohawks50]

No, it isn't.

My mom taught school for 40 years. My best friend is a 5th grade teacher. I personally know an elementary teacher who's had incidents that wouldn't be tolerated in any other job. It's very hard to fire teachers unless they are physically or sexually abusing kids.

Can you give an example of one of the incidents?

 

[BioHawk]

No, it isn't.

My mom taught school for 40 years. My best friend is a 5th grade teacher. I personally know an elementary teacher who's had incidents that wouldn't be tolerated in any other job. It's very hard to fire teachers unless they are physically or sexually abusing kids.

Again, you show me a bad teacher hanging onto a job and I'll show you a bad administration not doing theirs. You can't blame unions because the administrators are too f*****g lazy to do their job. If they would properly evaluate these teachers, they wouldn't have a job. That is not the union's fault. There is a process that has to be followed. Blaming the union because they are too lazy is weak.

Perhaps you should talk to your school board about why this teacher still has a job and why the administrators haven't done anything about it. Oh, and if they say "because the union won't let us fire them", then that administrator should be fired. Look up your school's contract, it's public record. There should be a detailed description of the evaluation process and how a teacher can be dismissed for poor performance.

*The one exception is if your contract has one of those "penalty box" rules that some large cities have. Those are stupid and should be eliminated from all collective bargaining agreements.

 

[The Tradition]

Again, you show me a bad teacher hanging onto a job and I'll show you a bad administration not doing theirs. You can't blame unions because the administrators are too f*****g lazy to do their job. If they would properly evaluate these teachers, they wouldn't have a job. That is not the union's fault. There is a process that has to be followed. Blaming the union because they are too lazy is weak.

Perhaps you should talk to your school board about why this teacher still has a job and why the administrators haven't done anything about it. Oh, and if they say "because the union won't let us fire them", then that administrator should be fired. Look up your school's contract, it's public record. There should be a detailed description of the evaluation process and how a teacher can be dismissed for poor performance.

*The one exception is if your contract has one of those "penalty box" rules that some large cities have. Those are stupid and should be eliminated from all collective bargaining agreements.

They have this thing called "arbitration".... perhaps you've heard of it?

 

[mcgrawfsu]

I’m not a teacher but my parents both were and I have plenty of friends who are.

It’s asinine to think they all can go back and it not be a mess.

How about trying to come up with ideas to make things better. Ways for kids to turn in papers, utilize a class library, ways to respond if a kid takes their mask off,etc. But instead you can be part of the problem and bitch and moan and say it will be a mess and a failure.

 

[BioHawk]

They have this thing called "arbitration".... perhaps you've heard of it?

You'll have to be more specific than this. I've had several teachers let go because of poor performance at my school. Not one of them got "arbitration". Although they were told that they wouldn't be brought back so unless they wanted to be fired they should resign. Every one of them resigned.

 

[The Tradition]

You'll have to be more specific than this. I've had several teachers let go because of poor performance at my school. Not one of them got "arbitration". Although they were told that they wouldn't be brought back so unless they wanted to be fired they should resign. Every one of them resigned.

What state do you (and these coworkers) live in?

 

[UNIowaHawk]

We are in this situation Because guys like you who just had to have your Applebee’s and Olive Garden.

And those who go to the grocery store, gas station, hospitals/clinics, marches/riots, Home Depot, Parks, ride mass transit, and funerals/remembrances. Why do so many attack the restaurants and bars and leave out these other culprits?

 

[goldmom]

You'll have to be more specific than this. I've had several teachers let go because of poor performance at my school. Not one of them got "arbitration". Although they were told that they wouldn't be brought back so unless they wanted to be fired they should resign. Every one of them resigned.

I am going on a hunch here but I bet you work for a very good school system. The kids are lucky!
But it's not that way in some other states and definitely not in large urban districts where the union is very strong. NYC is such a district. Kids deserve so much better but those schools are so dysfunctional top to bottom.

 

[The Tradition]

And those who go to the grocery store, gas station, hospitals/clinics, marches/riots, Home Depot, Parks, ride mass transit, and funerals/remembrances. Why do so many attack the restaurants and bars and leave out these other culprits?

Anecdotally, the majority of our employees excluded from work due to "community exposure" is based on:

(1) Spouse or other household member tested positive;
(2) Carpooling with a coworker who tested positive;
(3) Family get-togethers (includes weddings, birthdays and funerals);
(4) After-work extra-curricular activities;
(5) Travel.

 

[BioHawk]

I am going on a hunch here but I bet you work for a very good school system. The kids are lucky!
But it's not that way in some other states and definitely not in large urban districts where the union is very strong. NYC is such a district. Kids deserve so much better but those schools are so dysfunctional top to bottom.

It's a title 1 district so we deal with a lot of high poverty kids and special needs kids as well. We do the best we can. NYC is a terrible example to compare the rest of the country to because they have a seriously screwed up contract that very few other districts have. Unfortunately, the perception is that most contracts are like the NYC one when they are not.

 

[ConvenientParking]

Someone will get the reference that fits you.

Just wanna point out that hexum thought this Reservoir Dogs scene was slightly obscure.

 

[haw-key]

Teaching remotely is nothing like being in the room and shouldnt be considered a viable option.

This is horrible look for teachers imo. There are lots of professions that haven't missed a day of work since all of this has started in equally difficult positions. It is time to get back to work.

Like I said myself in another thread. Good post.

 

[BioHawk]

What state do you (and these coworkers) live in?

Illinois. Not Chicago.

 

[BioHawk]

Bio, are you not familiar with the teachers in NYC who've not been in a classroom in years but cannot be fired because of union rules?
Not being snarky. Check it out.

Yes, I addressed this in another post. NYC is an exception and should not be used to judge the rest of the country on. I'm right there with you on that contract being ridiculous.

 

[haw-key]

Don't bother with that guy...he thinks this is where teachers are expendable like troops storming the beaches at Normandy.

How to you feel about healthcare workers, police, fire? Should they have to work? Or are teachers different?

 

[haw-key]

Anecdotally, the majority of our employees excluded from work due to "community exposure" is based on:

(1) spouse or other household member tested positive:
(2) carpooling with a coworker who tested positive;
(3) family get-togethers (includes weddings, birthdays and funerals);
(4) After-work extra-curricular activities;
(5) Travel.

This is exactly correct for my cohort that have acquired C19. None have been felt to have been acquired while at work. This far and we are 5 months in.

 

[BioHawk]

How to you feel about healthcare workers, police, fire? Should they have to work? Or are teachers different?

Healthcare workers signed up for this job and are provided the adequate facilities and PPE that make being around sick people for 8 hours manageable.

Police do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

Firefighters do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

All of these professions are funded better and recieve higher pay than teachers. If you want to fund education the way these are funded and pay teachers the way police, fire, and healthcare workers are paid then this line of reasoning has more merit.

 

[The Tradition]

This is exactly correct for my cohort that have acquired C19. None have been felt to have been acquired while at work. This far and we are 5 months in.

Well, that list was just for folks excluded for "community exposure"... the vast majority of excluded employees were out due to a positive test and to a lesser extent, the onset of symptoms.

 

[hawkosx]

Look at what’s going on in Georgia. It’s already spreading in schools. Also, there are all those kids at a YMCA camp that got sick.

Your article is complete bullshit compared to what is going on. Maybe kids 10 and under don’t spread it as easily but 10 and over certainly can.

So you are correct and multiple studies and conclusions of researchers are wrong because it’s starting to spread in Georgia? And the spread in GA is undoubtedly due solely to schools reopening?

 

[hawkedoff]

Healthcare workers signed up for this job and are provided the adequate facilities and PPE that make being around sick people for 8 hours manageable.

Police do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

Firefighters do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

All of these professions are funded better and recieve higher pay than teachers. If you want to fund education the way these are funded and pay teachers the way police, fire, and healthcare workers are paid then this line of reasoning has more merit.

If you are going to lie at least make an attempt to be credible

 

[BioHawk]

If you are going to lie at least make an attempt to be credible

Ok buddy. Get back to me when you want to have a serious discussion.

 

[The Tradition]

Healthcare workers signed up for this job and are provided the adequate facilities and PPE that make being around sick people for 8 hours manageable.

Police do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

Firefighters do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

All of these professions are funded better and recieve higher pay than teachers. If you want to fund education the way these are funded and pay teachers the way police, fire, and healthcare workers are paid then this line of reasoning has more merit.

LOL at the suggestion that healthcare workers make less than teachers.

 

[BioHawk]

LOL at the suggestion that healthcare workers make less than teachers.

Nurses, who would be the individuals with the equivalent training and education level, make more than teachers. At least they do in hospitals. Maybe not in doctor's offices that typically pay less (but much better hours).

Support staff in hospitals generally get paid more than support staff in schools as well. You can't compare a teacher pay to an orderly's pay.

 

[unIowa]

Healthcare workers signed up for this job and are provided the adequate facilities and PPE that make being around sick people for 8 hours manageable.

Police do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

Firefighters do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

All of these professions are funded better and recieve higher pay than teachers. If you want to fund education the way these are funded and pay teachers the way police, fire, and healthcare workers are paid then this line of reasoning has more merit.

He doesn't want to do that though, he just wants to push his parenting responsibilities to schools.

 

[unIowa]

Nurses, who would be the individuals with the equivalent training and education level, make more than teachers. At least they do in hospitals. Maybe not in doctor's offices that typically pay less (but much better hours).

Support staff in hospitals generally get paid more than support staff in schools as well. You can't compare a teacher pay to an orderly's pay.

Dumb people think they can compare teacher pay to orderly pay.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

LOL at the suggestion that healthcare workers make less than teachers.

I didn’t interpret that from his post at all. In fact, he says police, fire, and healthcare all make more than teachers.

 

[The Tradition]

I didn’t interpret that from his post at all. In fact, he says police, fire, and healthcare all make more than teachers.

That's because the "bullies" are adults in those other professions. A felon will kill you. A fire will kill you. A crazy patient will kill you.

A 12-year-old? No so much.

 

[BioHawk]

That's because the "bullies" are adults in those other professions. A felon will kill you. A fire will kill you. A crazy patient will kill you.

A 12-year-old? No so much.

Until someone walks in to a school with an AR-15 and starts shooting up the place.

But under normal circumstances, you are correct. There is a certain amount of hazard pay those professions get. Until COVID, the chances of someone in a school being exposed to a life and death situation were very small. Now? Not so much.

Now, I'm not saying that teachers should be paid more to work in a pandemic (although I wouldn't complain if they were), but in order to maintain a reasonable level of safety you are going to have to hire more staff. Forgetting the lack of available people to hire, schools are going to be spending a lot more money to do this.

 

[haw-key]

Healthcare workers signed up for this job and are provided the adequate facilities and PPE that make being around sick people for 8 hours manageable.

Police do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

Firefighters do not spend time in close proximity to large groups of people for 8 hours indoors.

All of these professions are funded better and recieve higher pay than teachers. If you want to fund education the way these are funded and pay teachers the way police, fire, and healthcare workers are paid then this line of reasoning has more merit.

But @Joes Place says we don’t have adequate PPE yet we are expected to do our jobs. (Fact is that we do). And teachers can use the same type of PPE. This is droplet spread so distance along with masks/shield and testing should be adequate. I’d suggest gloves, hand sanitizer and avoiding touching ones eyes nose or mouth. It doesn’t appear fomites play a large role.

Teachers are paid as well as many healthcare workers, police and fire. And get summer off. My wife makes north of 70k and teaches first grade. What you have been told or what you believe isn’t true. If you factor in her 10 weeks over summer off she’d be making 86k in a ‘normal’ job.

 

[BioHawk]

But @Joes Place sats we don’t have adequate PPE yet we are expected to do our jobs. Fact is that we do. And teachers can use the same type of PPE. This is droplet spread so distance along with masks/shield and testing should be adequate. I’d suggest gloves, hand sanitizer and avoiding touching ones eyes nurse or mouth. It doesn’t appear fomites play a large role.

Teachers are paid as well as many healthcare workers, police and fire. And get summer off. My wife makes north of 70k and teaches first grade. What you have been told or what you believe isn’t true.

If enough PPE can be provided then in person education can be conducted with a reasonable amount of risk, provided there isn't uncontrolled community spread. I don't disagree with that but all that PPE has to be paid for by somebody.

 

[haw-key]

If enough PPE can be provided then in person education can be conducted with a reasonable amount of risk, provided there isn't uncontrolled community spread. I don't disagree with that but all that PPE has to be paid for by somebody.

Yep and the district or the state should do so. Or teachers given a federal tax break to allow them to do so themselves. But option 1 is the correct
answer. Federal should be last resort for states that don’t step up.

 

[TheCainer]

Ouch, this is going to leave a mark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-school-openings-are-saying-im-not-essential/

I wonder if the writer's kids go to a public school?

Thiessen lives in Alexandria, Virginia with his wife Pamela, who is currently the Staff Director of the United States Senate Republican Policy Committee. They have four children.