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Teachers' salaries ranked by state... Actual salary and Cost of Living Adjusted

People who are good at their jobs don't fear a portion of their pay being performance based....they actually embrace it.

People who want their pay performance based also have direct control over the outcomes of their efforts.
 
People who want their pay performance based also have direct control over the outcomes of their efforts.

And teachers would have that too...if you don't, you do what the people in the other working world do.......they get another job.

Soon the school districts that weren't offering true unbiased performance pay will find themselves full of crappy teachers and facing budget shortfalls as students open enroll out to schools with better teachers.

Once had a job where the performance bonus was allocated the same to everyone.......and everyone knew it. The owner thought he was clever because he could tell new hires he had the program even thought it meant little. During my exit interview (right after the performance bonus was paid) one of the things I pointed out to the employer is that all "his" program did was put a strain on the company. A whole years worth of turnover was condensed into a short span after the bonus was paid (which also happened to coincide with a busy time for the company).
 
Interesting to see a few of the teachers in this thread outright lie or be flat out wrong without checking facts. I pity the kids in your classes if this is the approach you use in managing your classes. Yes teachers complain about pay. Most do. So do people outside of teaching so get over your sanctimonious nonsense. You work for a paycheck just like the rest of us. If you took the time to actually listen rather than bang your drums you would hear things aren't always so great in the outside world. To the teacher calling Woody Allen a pedo that banged his underaged stepdaughter and then married her? Check your sources. He isn't and you should get an F. Not that I know Woody Allen at all but you are a teacher and I would hope you teach your students better research skills.

Funny how performance pay and evaluations just can't possibly work for a group of people that literally grade others for a living.
 
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Interesting to see a few of the teachers in this thread outright lie or be flat out wrong without checking facts. I pity the kids in your classes if this is the approach you use in managing your classes. Yes teachers complain about pay. Most do. So do people outside of teaching so get over your sanctimonious nonsense. You work for a paycheck just like the rest of us. If you took the time to actually listen rather than bang your drums you would hear things aren't always so great in the outside world. To the teacher calling Woody Allen a pedo that banged his underaged stepdaughter and then married her? Check your sources. He isn't and you should get an F. Not that I know Woody Allen at all but you are a teacher and I would hope you teach your students better research skills.

Funny how performance pay and evaluations just can't possibly work for a group of people that literally grade others for a living.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Got poor grades in school and blamed it on the teachers.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Got poor grades in school and blamed it on the teachers.

Personal attacks. My grades were just fine. How were yours? Not very good if your level of accuracy in your research is any indication of your ability. I can see why you in particular would be against merit pay.

I'm guessing.this is how you treat your students ad well. If so you should find a different job
 
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Congratulations. Guess what? That doesn't make your job easier and it certainly doesn't make you better. Even more, it doesn't make you remotely qualified to determine exactly how much teachers should or should not be making.
Since our tax dollars are paying teachers salaries we kind of get to have a say right?
 
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Since our tax dollars are paying teachers salaries we kind of get to have a say right?

I would say to a degree the public shoush have a say in teacher compensation. Very broad strokes though. Ulitmately the particulars should be left to the school districts and their boards with transparency on the issue to their community. Building principals should also have a say in their building and their position on the issue should be public. Make administration responsible for their decisions and their outcomes including teacher evaluation and compensation.

Teachers do need protections other professions don't need so some level of collective bargaining or unionization is needed.
 
Since our tax dollars are paying teachers salaries we kind of get to have a say right?

We actually do...when we vote. Funny to listen to teachers bash Branstad.....yet Branstad has never lost an election.....ever.
 
Since our tax dollars are paying teachers salaries we kind of get to have a say right?

Everybody in the district pays taxes in some form or another, some more than others. That’s why you hire administrators or elect school boards for. They can renew or terminate teaching contracts based on performance, which often happens. These boards are increasingly being forced to make unpopular business decisions too, much to the chagrin of a largely ignorant public.
 
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Since our tax dollars are paying teachers salaries we kind of get to have a say right?

Nope. You elect school board members to do that for you. And in schools that function well, the school board listens to the recommendations of the Superintendent, who is qualified to make those decisions.

Unless you have a degree in an educational field, you are not qualified to make those types of decisions. If you want to pin-point the problems with education today, the top of the list starts at people who think that because they sat in a classroom for 10 years it makes them an expert on knowing what a teacher does and gives them the ability to decide the things you want to decide.
 
Nope. You elect school board members to do that for you. And in schools that function well, the school board listens to the recommendations of the Superintendent, who is qualified to make those decisions.

Unless you have a degree in an educational field, you are not qualified to make those types of decisions. If you want to pin-point the problems with education today, the top of the list starts at people who think that because they sat in a classroom for 10 years it makes them an expert on knowing what a teacher does and gives them the ability to decide the things you want to decide.
On the other side of that is people that never worked in the private sector and think everything is a giant piggy bank.
 
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Nope. You elect school board members to do that for you. And in schools that function well, the school board listens to the recommendations of the Superintendent, who is qualified to make those decisions.

Unless you have a degree in an educational field, you are not qualified to make those types of decisions. If you want to pin-point the problems with education today, the top of the list starts at people who think that because they sat in a classroom for 10 years it makes them an expert on knowing what a teacher does and gives them the ability to decide the things you want to decide.

Nonsense. Which education degree makes someone an expert in compensation, talent management, legal, or budgets?

Are you suggesting school boards should only include people with a degree in education or simply a rubber stamp for those that do? Your opinion elevates the field of education as something it isn't.
 
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On the other side of that is people that never worked in the private sector and think everything is a giant piggy bank.

I'm not sure what you mean by this unless you are saying the people who complain about CEO's getting 8 figure bonuses for bankrupting their companies. I don't hear many people complain about the salary some analyst at an insurance company gets.
 
I would rather work all 12 months a make double what they make.
And if your pay was frozen for six years while your costs - like insurance - went up and then your boss said, "Hey, you remember that bonus you used to get...that's gone. And that extra pay you got for furthering your education at your expense...that's gone, too. Oh...and before I forget...you need to spend more of your money on the things you need to do your job like pencils and pens and and paper and books and staples...have a great day" you'd likely complain a bit. That's what's happened in NC...exactly. I could chuck it all and retire yesterday...I'm already there...but I love this job and by any measure, I'm really good at it. That doesn't mean I have to agree with the pay structure or what the GOP legislature with their veto-proof majority has done to try and destroy public education in NC.
 
Nonsense. Which education degree makes someone an expert in compensation, talent management, legal, or budgets?

Are you suggesting school boards should only include people with a degree in education or simply a rubber stamp for those that do? Your opinion elevates the field of education as something it isn't.

We’re talking trained school administrators and school boards comprised of people who have shown the ability to make informed decisions. You might want to rethink your statement.
 
Nonsense. Which education degree makes someone an expert in compensation, talent management, legal, or budgets?

Are you suggesting school boards should only include people with a degree in education or simply a rubber stamp for those that do? Your opinion elevates the field of education as something it isn't.

1) Masters in Educational Leadership, Type 75. Preferably a PhD if you are talking about a Superintendent or a Principal at a large school.

School boards should have multiple members with backgrounds in education. More importantly, you need board members who understand they are not experts in everything and know when to listen to advice from people who are. You don't want a rubber stamp school board, you want one that is reasonable and doesn't have axes to grind. Unfortunately, the latter finds its way onto boards far too often and that's where many problems begin.
 
Personal attacks. My grades were just fine. How were yours? Not very good if your level of accuracy in your research is any indication of your ability. I can see why you in particular would be against merit pay.

I'm guessing.this is how you treat your students ad well. If so you should find a different job

Very good, thanks. That's why I'm a teacher. And Woody is a pedophile, not sure why you continually stick up for him. Very strange.

No, my kids are great. Thanks for your concern, though.
 
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People who are good at their jobs don't fear a portion of their pay being performance based....they actually embrace it.
Great...you're the head of a group of 30. Your pay depends on their performance...but not on what you train them to do. They get a multiple-choice test once a year that may or may not reflect what you trained them to do. And you don't get input or access to that test until the day it's administered. What's on it...no f'n idea. If you're training them to work in a machine shop, there might be a question asking who invented the lathe (Henry Maudslay invented the metal lathe, btw). Their performance on THAT test determines your pay...perhaps even your continued employment.

Oh...and you don't get to pick your team...you get the first 30 people who walk in the door and ask for a job. Furthermore, you can't fire them for poor performance and replace them. And at the end of your year, you lose them all...good and bad...and get a new 30 and it starts all over again. But now you know some of what's on the test...so even though it doesn't help them learn to operate the machinery, you spend time teaching them the histories of the various machines and less time teaching them how the machines actually operate. And for that, you'll be criticized because you're "teaching to the test"...you know, the test that determines your pay.

You want to "embrace" that model?
 
Great...you're the head of a group of 30. Your pay depends on their performance...but not on what you train them to do. They get a multiple-choice test once a year that may or may not reflect what you trained them to do. And you don't get input or access to that test until the day it's administered. What's on it...no f'n idea. If you're training them to work in a machine shop, there might be a question asking who invented the lathe (Henry Maudslay invented the metal lathe, btw). Their performance on THAT test determines your pay...perhaps even your continued employment.

Oh...and you don't get to pick your team...you get the first 30 people who walk in the door and ask for a job. Furthermore, you can't fire them for poor performance and replace them. And at the end of your year, you lose them all...good and bad...and get a new 30 and it starts all over again. But now you know some of what's on the test...so even though it doesn't help them learn to operate the machinery, you spend time teaching them the histories of the various machines and less time teaching them how the machines actually operate. And for that, you'll be criticized because you're "teaching to the test"...you know, the test that determines your pay.

You want to "embrace" that model?

tenor.gif
 
Well, you said that if you could get three months off in the summer you would teach. You also claim teachers get three months off in the summer. So based on your own words, you should be a teacher.

I assume your degree plan did not include a course in Logic.

Maybe I should. At least I could be a whiny little girl about my pay if I did.
 
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Maybe I should. At least I could be a whiny little girl about my pay if I did.
Are you kidding? You'd be the whiny little pain in the ass at the teachers' table at lunch that nobody would want to sit with. You'd be that teacher who, when you walked into the workroom, the other teachers would grab their stuff and head for the door to avoid listening to you whine.
 
Great...you're the head of a group of 30. Your pay depends on their performance...but not on what you train them to do. They get a multiple-choice test once a year that may or may not reflect what you trained them to do. And you don't get input or access to that test until the day it's administered. What's on it...no f'n idea. If you're training them to work in a machine shop, there might be a question asking who invented the lathe (Henry Maudslay invented the metal lathe, btw). Their performance on THAT test determines your pay...perhaps even your continued employment.

Oh...and you don't get to pick your team...you get the first 30 people who walk in the door and ask for a job. Furthermore, you can't fire them for poor performance and replace them. And at the end of your year, you lose them all...good and bad...and get a new 30 and it starts all over again. But now you know some of what's on the test...so even though it doesn't help them learn to operate the machinery, you spend time teaching them the histories of the various machines and less time teaching them how the machines actually operate. And for that, you'll be criticized because you're "teaching to the test"...you know, the test that determines your pay.

You want to "embrace" that model?

Huge swing and a miss if you think the crux of the metrics used to evaluate the teacher's performance pay will be test scores on a standardized test given to their students.
 
Thank you. That is part of the problem we currently have.
And that is utterly meaningless. Are you saying the current model for "evaluating" teacher performance is idiotic? Welcome to the club. Would you like to propose an alternative? Have at it.
 
Funny how performance pay and evaluations just can't possibly work...
I'm not going back through the thread so I'd appreciate it if you could copy and paste those who made this claim.

...for a group of people that literally grade others for a living.
I see my kids every single day. I'm deeply involved in what I want them to learn and how I evaluate it. My assessments - at all levels - are focused on the skills I want them to develop and I teach them the skills I want them to have. If they fail the assessment, that's on ME because the assessment and the instruction belong to ME. I differentiate for kids who speak very little English, who have learning disabilities, who have very little support at home...

I KNOW what they know and what they're able to do because I'm right there with them every day. I'll teach over 1,000 classes this year...an administrator will officially "evaluate" me twice...and will not spend the entire period in my room either time.
 
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Huge swing and a miss if you think the crux of the metrics used to evaluate the teacher's performance pay will be test scores on a standardized test given to their students.
What other metrics would you propose? Evaluations from students or parents? No bias there! Observation from a principal or outside entity? Where is the time/money for that? Come on, lets hear your plan.
 
No, it's not. Nice to see you have the union talking points down, though.
I don't like the union at all but he's right. I have yet to see a fair way to evaluate in order to determing performing or underperforming teachers. It depends on schools. When I was at a below poverty level school it would piss me off when our scores would get compared to a school with 99% white students in a small town. I could type for hours on this but am tired of defending what we do. What I know is there are great teachers at struggling schools and crap teachers at "good" schools.

If you have a way to differentiate between teachers who work with a classroom full of nonverbal autistic kids, and show how those kids are or aren't getting positives out of being in that classroom, and teachers who work at a school with over 90% of the students above the poverty level, and how those teachers are doing such an amazing job because the kids are already motivated to learn, please let loose.
 
And teachers would have that too...if you don't, you do what the people in the other working world do.......they get another job.

Soon the school districts that weren't offering true unbiased performance pay will find themselves full of crappy teachers and facing budget shortfalls as students open enroll out to schools with better teachers.

Once had a job where the performance bonus was allocated the same to everyone.......and everyone knew it. The owner thought he was clever because he could tell new hires he had the program even thought it meant little. During my exit interview (right after the performance bonus was paid) one of the things I pointed out to the employer is that all "his" program did was put a strain on the company. A whole years worth of turnover was condensed into a short span after the bonus was paid (which also happened to coincide with a busy time for the company).
So you are encouraging teachers to NOT work with students who need us to care about them and work with them the most. You are telling us to go find easier kids to work with. That's just dumb.
 
Interesting to see a few of the teachers in this thread outright lie or be flat out wrong without checking facts. I pity the kids in your classes if this is the approach you use in managing your classes. Yes teachers complain about pay. Most do. So do people outside of teaching so get over your sanctimonious nonsense. You work for a paycheck just like the rest of us. If you took the time to actually listen rather than bang your drums you would hear things aren't always so great in the outside world. To the teacher calling Woody Allen a pedo that banged his underaged stepdaughter and then married her? Check your sources. He isn't and you should get an F. Not that I know Woody Allen at all but you are a teacher and I would hope you teach your students better research skills.

Funny how performance pay and evaluations just can't possibly work for a group of people that literally grade others for a living.
You're right...he was sleeping with Soon Yi when she was 18 - his girlfriend's daughter. The pedo part was being accused by Dylan Farrow of molesting her when she was 6 or 7. So thanks for pointing that out for me.

Oh and for the rest of your drivel...lol.
 
Nonsense. Which education degree makes someone an expert in compensation, talent management, legal, or budgets?

Are you suggesting school boards should only include people with a degree in education or simply a rubber stamp for those that do? Your opinion elevates the field of education as something it isn't.
No. What he's saying is that people who sat in a classroom when they were kids no jacksquat about teaching students. Elevates education? What the holy hell? Is it important or not?
 
Interesting to see a few of the teachers in this thread outright lie or be flat out wrong without checking facts. I pity the kids in your classes if this is the approach you use in managing your classes. Yes teachers complain about pay. Most do. So do people outside of teaching so get over your sanctimonious nonsense. You work for a paycheck just like the rest of us. If you took the time to actually listen rather than bang your drums you would hear things aren't always so great in the outside world. To the teacher calling Woody Allen a pedo that banged his underaged stepdaughter and then married her? Check your sources. He isn't and you should get an F. Not that I know Woody Allen at all but you are a teacher and I would hope you teach your students better research skills.

Funny how performance pay and evaluations just can't possibly work for a group of people that literally grade others for a living.

Let's see the facts then. Where are your sources? Or are you just full of shit?
 
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