Telling Signs

GOHOX69

HR Legend
Sep 26, 2009
12,157
14,603
113
Besides the Murrays, we have no freaking talent. Someone refute me on this point. The other players play like they have a combination of Parkinson's and Huntington's Diseases. Why is recruiting so freaking pathetic? Perkins? Toussaint? Is one of the criteria to be recruited to Iowa that you have 0 ball handling skills, and play out of control the whole freaking time?

You know what was hilarious? They zoomed in on the bench during one of the time outs and all I was was short white guys pretending to be black making some signs in the air. This is the future. Holy crap. We are doomed.
 

Slim45

HR MVP
Nov 30, 2019
1,398
2,469
113
Besides the Murrays, we have no freaking talent. Someone refute me on this point. The other players play like they have a combination of Parkinson's and Huntington's Diseases. Why is recruiting so freaking pathetic? Perkins? Toussaint? Is one of the criteria to be recruited to Iowa that you have 0 ball handling skills, and play out of control the whole freaking time?

You know what was hilarious? They zoomed in on the bench during one of the time outs and all I was was short white guys pretending to be black making some signs in the air. This is the future. Holy crap. We are doomed.
Well this is one way to tell us you don’t know jack about basketball. Next time the iowa cricket team plays, you can let us know your thoughts
 

comet_y2k

HR MVP
Oct 6, 2001
2,025
123
63
I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year... normally rebuilding years you see young guys taking steps through the season, so you can clearly see the future. Not seeing that at all besides Kris, and God knows how long he will be around.

So my question is, if this is a rebuilding year, and next year we don't have Keegan, then what the hell is next year?
 

Lighting Hawk

HR All-State
Gold Member
Sep 16, 2021
901
1,727
93
Besides the Murrays, we have no freaking talent. Someone refute me on this point. The other players play like they have a combination of Parkinson's and Huntington's Diseases. Why is recruiting so freaking pathetic? Perkins? Toussaint? Is one of the criteria to be recruited to Iowa that you have 0 ball handling skills, and play out of control the whole freaking time?

You know what was hilarious? They zoomed in on the bench during one of the time outs and all I was was short white guys pretending to be black making some signs in the air. This is the future. Holy crap. We are doomed.
There's a difference between critiquing/analyzing players on the team, and categorically trashing them and their abilities. You sound like an ass. Stay in your lane, that which isn't analyzing talent and recruiting.
 

GOHOX69

HR Legend
Sep 26, 2009
12,157
14,603
113
There's a difference between critiquing/analyzing players on the team, and categorically trashing them and their abilities. You sound like an ass. Stay in your lane, that which isn't analyzing talent and recruiting.
It ain't much better with the product out there.
 

RocknRollface

HR Legend
Dec 21, 2011
10,808
10,405
113
I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year... normally rebuilding years you see young guys taking steps through the season, so you can clearly see the future. Not seeing that at all besides Kris, and God knows how long he will be around.

So my question is, if this is a rebuilding year, and next year we don't have Keegan, then what the hell is next year?
You're not seeing it because Fran wants to continue to play his made men who are in their mid 20s instead of letting guys like Kris, Sandfort and Perkins grow.
 

Suterman

HR Legend
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2003
19,827
22,498
113
Next year

1- Joe Toussaint, Dasonte Bowen, Ahron Ulis
2- Tony Perkins, Josh Dix
3- Patrick McCaffery, Payton Sandfort
4- Kris Murray, Filip Rebraca
5- Filip Rebraca, Josh Ogundele, Riley Mulvey
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Gold Member
Sep 6, 2012
3,938
6,760
113
I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year... normally rebuilding years you see young guys taking steps through the season, so you can clearly see the future. Not seeing that at all besides Kris, and God knows how long he will be around.

So my question is, if this is a rebuilding year, and next year we don't have Keegan, then what the hell is next year?
This is not a rebuilding year. Next year will be a rebuilding year.
 
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2432Hawk

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jun 22, 2002
25,855
11,579
113
Anamosa, IA
Next year

1- Joe Toussaint, Dasonte Bowen, Ahron Ulis
2- Tony Perkins, Josh Dix
3- Patrick McCaffery, Payton Sandfort
4- Kris Murray, Filip Rebraca
5- Filip Rebraca, Josh Ogundele, Riley Mulvey

PG-Joe Toussaint / Ahron Ulis
SG-Dasonte Bowen / Tony Perkins / Josh Dix
SF-Patrick McCaffery / Josh Dix / Payton Sandfort
PF-Kris Murray / Payton Sandfort / Filip Rebraca
C-Filip Rebraca / Riley Mulvey / Josh Ogundele

IF we can get a PF/C with size and talent I'd really like this roster. Or if the young bigs come along ???

What excites me about next year is the backcourt starters/bench are all going to be able to defend.... 40 minutes of hell.

I think Bowen can start at SG and bring some scoring/shooting (at least that's my hope)

Biggest factor for Iowa's success next year could be all the talent that departs the BigTen after this season?
 

IllQChawk

HR All-American
May 29, 2001
3,958
2,472
113
Suterman, you're more crazy then I thought you were.
If Fran, and we all know Fran, so he probably will, plays Rebraca at center next year instead of Riley Mulvey or Josh Ogundele, Iowa is headed down the same road it is going down right now. Josh is not and will never become the center you all envision and that's a fact whether you believe it or not.
Josh Dix will not see much playing time next year, His injury is not going to allow him enough time to get ready to play next year at the level he needs to be...see Payton Sanford. How many minutes did he see this year and he didn't have a catastrophic injury like Dix had. Use your head.
I can also see Bowen playing the off guard spot behind Perkins and along side Toussaint but who knows what the roster will be next year...no one knew that Nunge or Fredrick were going to the portal and maybe Perkins, Ulis, or others decide to transfer before next year...nothing would surprise me anymore except Frans coaching philosophy which is apart of his DNA and it will never change.
Oh, by the way you're no more crazy then the rest of us that follow Iowa basketball...
 
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Suterman

HR Legend
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2003
19,827
22,498
113
Suterman, you're more crazy then I thought you were.
If Fran, and we all know Fran, so he probably will, plays Rebraca at center next year instead of Riley Mulvey or Josh Ogundele, Iowa is headed down the same road it is going down right now. Josh is not and will never become the center you all envision and that's a fact whether you believe it or not.
Josh Dix will not see much playing time next year, His injury is not going to allow him enough time to get ready to play next year at the level he needs to be...see Payton Sanford. How many minutes did he see this year and he didn't have a catastrophic injury like Dix had. Use your head.
I can also see Bowen playing the off guard spot behind Perkins and along side Toussaint but who knows what the roster will be next year...no one knew that Nunge or Fredrick were going to the portal and maybe Perkins, Ulis, or others decide to transfer before next year...nothing would surprise me anymore except Frans coaching philosophy which is apart of his DNA and it will never change.
Oh, by the way you're no more crazy then the rest of us that follow Iowa basketball...
I agree that Filip should be playing the 4 almost exclusively, but are Mulvey and Ogundele going to be more than spot contributors next year? If they are ready then yes, of course they should play as much as they are able to contribute. Getting a stud center out of the portal may be the real answer for next year.
 
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wcbtee

HR MVP
Gold Member
Apr 21, 2002
2,118
2,502
113
I keep hearing this is a rebuilding year... normally rebuilding years you see young guys taking steps through the season, so you can clearly see the future. Not seeing that at all besides Kris, and God knows how long he will be around.

So my question is, if this is a rebuilding year, and next year we don't have Keegan, then what the hell is next year?
Well outside of Ash & Connor, our upper class consists of Joe T & Rebracca, we lost 2 NBA players, CJ & Nunge from the 20-21 team. Who the hell thought this was a NCAA caliber veteran team? Add talent, sure need to every year.

Needs 1) Size, length is great, but we need some width also.. Ogundele, Mulvey, never expected much from them this year, next year, improved sure, but Big ten ready, I don't think so, probably another year away. Rebracca is nice complimentary big man, they need to add a transfer, Juco or talented freshmen who is aggressive and weighs more than a big NFL receiver (i.e. Calvin Johnson). Start a player like Trevion Williams, then throw in Kris Murray, Ogundele, Rebracca & Mulvey and you have something. Tyler cook, Nunge as upper classman(not huge, but would be a gigantic upgrade to the current roster), more realistic Aaron White, Kriener or Gabe Olaseni. This is the number 1 thing I am critical of Fran, it was pretty obvious this would be weakness going into the season.

2) Scorers 1) Kris 2) Sandfort(I think will take the next step 3) Patrick - needs to get stronger to finish around the basket and keep improving 4) Perkins? We need some players who want the ball in their hands after an opponent makes a run or at the end of the game. I don't think we have enough next year, add a 4/5 with a wide body, who rebounds and scores 10pts a game would be a nice add. Shooter/scorer Dix? Not sure with his injury

If you ask me next year is this an NCAA team, I would say bubble, assuming Keegan leaves and Kris continues to improve, assuming improvement from Perkins, Joe T & Ulis. Add a 10 pt & 10 board wide body C/F, another shooter & I think you got a solid tourney team.
 

Bulldogs1974

HR Heisman
Oct 16, 2012
9,802
9,076
113
Next year

1- Joe Toussaint, Dasonte Bowen, Ahron Ulis
2- Tony Perkins, Josh Dix
3- Patrick McCaffery, Payton Sandfort
4- Kris Murray, Filip Rebraca
5- Filip Rebraca, Josh Ogundele, Riley Mulvey
and he'll try to play them all to everyone's detriment.
 

hawkland14

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Feb 26, 2013
7,112
6,922
113
Talent seems well enough. Coaching and player development in the program are terrible.
Player development? You mean turning a two start prospect who played 10-15 minutes a game last year into a lottery pick in one season isn't considered player development? What would you call it?

Say what want about Fran,(he warrants criticism in many areas) but to claim he can't develop players is laughable. He has turned more two and three star prospects into All Big Ten players than about any coach in the league over the past 10 years.
 

LGEND24

HR MVP
Dec 26, 2010
1,189
1,320
113
Player development? You mean turning a two start prospect who played 10-15 minutes a game last year into a lottery pick in one season isn't considered player development? What would you call it?

Say what want about Fran,(he warrants criticism in many areas) but to claim he can't develop players is laughable. He has turned more two and three star prospects into All Big Ten players than about any coach in the league over the past 10 years.
Keegan should have been starting last year. He was already a star that wasn’t getting the minutes he deserved, much like Kris this year.
 

Bulldogs1974

HR Heisman
Oct 16, 2012
9,802
9,076
113
Player development? You mean turning a two start prospect who played 10-15 minutes a game last year into a lottery pick in one season isn't considered player development? What would you call it?

Say what want about Fran,(he warrants criticism in many areas) but to claim he can't develop players is laughable. He has turned more two and three star prospects into All Big Ten players than about any coach in the league over the past 10 years.
Let's not pretend that some of that isn't due to a system of play that leads to bloated offensive numbers. Which like it or not, is what a lot of that voting comes down to.
I only see one defensive team member in fran's tenure (jarrod Uthoff) and he had bo for awhle at wisconsin.
 

doughawk

HR MVP
Gold Member
Jun 22, 2002
1,114
944
113
I see some respondents way overvaluing many players on our roster. I think, if it is possible, for us to look at each individual and try our best to project how many would start on each BIG10 team currently. Then, I think you get a better idea of where Iowa fits in the conference. I don't think Conner would start or play significant minutes for any other BIG10 team for example. Do the same with Bohannon, Rebraca, Patrick, Joe, and project next year for Ulis, Perkins, Mulvey, etc.
Most, might only start on teams currently below Iowa in the current standings which is 8th or 9th.
This is my opinion and you are entitled to yours without blasting me as we are all supposedly Iowa "fans".
 

JMSBFD

HR All-State
Nov 27, 2021
548
468
63
Next year

1- Joe Toussaint, Dasonte Bowen, Ahron Ulis
2- Tony Perkins, Josh Dix
3- Patrick McCaffery, Payton Sandfort
4- Kris Murray, Filip Rebraca
5- Filip Rebraca, Josh Ogundele, Riley Mulvey
Should caveat this by noting it doesn't account for the two that are headed for the portal.
 

hawktrooper1

HR All-State
Jan 5, 2017
868
2,036
93
Whether it’s a “rebuilding” year or not is besides the point. Fact of the matter is Fran somehow fell ass backwards into replacing Garza, who should’ve been National Player of the Year TWO years in a row, with a Player of the Year candidate who is a bona fide Lottery Pick candidate. And that player has a TWIN brother who despite having the same genes only gets 10 minutes a night.

Wisconsin wins at least 2 of 3 Big Ten regular season championships and finishes Sweet 16 or better in the tourney. With THE SAME players. Literally take Iowa’s entire roster from the last three seasons, put them in Madison, and we’d all be sitting here in Iowa bitching about the fact we’d love to have such teams.

There is no shortage of talent in Iowa. The coaching sucks and we’re serving witness to the absolute waste of it. Garza and Keegan Murray are on the short list of most talented players ever to suit up in Black and Gold, and they were playing with the All-Time 3-point leader. And yet… what? It’s almost laughable really.
 

Bulldogs1974

HR Heisman
Oct 16, 2012
9,802
9,076
113
I see some respondents way overvaluing many players on our roster. I think, if it is possible, for us to look at each individual and try our best to project how many would start on each BIG10 team currently. Then, I think you get a better idea of where Iowa fits in the conference. I don't think Conner would start or play significant minutes for any other BIG10 team for example. Do the same with Bohannon, Rebraca, Patrick, Joe, and project next year for Ulis, Perkins, Mulvey, etc.
Most, might only start on teams currently below Iowa in the current standings which is 8th or 9th.
This is my opinion and you are entitled to yours without blasting me as we are all supposedly Iowa "fans".
If they wouldn't play it would be because of a lack of defensive fundamentals. Joe T would start almost everywhere. Especially if he had played there multiple years.
 
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goodbyebobby

HR Legend
Mar 27, 2002
10,071
3,375
113
Player development? You mean turning a two start prospect who played 10-15 minutes a game last year into a lottery pick in one season isn't considered player development? What would you call it?

Say what want about Fran,(he warrants criticism in many areas) but to claim he can't develop players is laughable. He has turned more two and three star prospects into All Big Ten players than about any coach in the league over the past 10 years.
I would wager dad was/is much more responsible for the twins development than anything Fran has done.
He can't even teach his oldest to shoot....
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Gold Member
Sep 6, 2012
3,938
6,760
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For most schools to lose four players the caliber that Iowa did they would consider it a rebuilding year.(unless your a blue blood of course) The fact that it hasn't been is a testament to Fran and his staff.
Team was loaded last year with and Luka, Joe and Keegan, but CJ was a bit player and Nunge missed the back half of the season. The second best player on the team saw limited minutes for most of the year behind a guy who's strongest attribute is his DNA and they had the wrong guy playing point guard. The Murrays are every bit as talented as Luka and Joe. The fact that one of them again only plays extended minutes when another player gets injured or in foul trouble is an indictment of Fran and his staff. This is not what a rebuilding year looks like. If both of the Murrays are gone next year you'll see what a rebuilding year looks like and it's going to be ugly.
 
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Sep 2, 2001
19
106
28
Besides the Murrays, we have no freaking talent. Someone refute me on this point. The other players play like they have a combination of Parkinson's and Huntington's Diseases. Why is recruiting so freaking pathetic? Perkins? Toussaint? Is one of the criteria to be recruited to Iowa that you have 0 ball handling skills, and play out of control the whole freaking time?

You know what was hilarious? They zoomed in on the bench during one of the time outs and all I was was short white guys pretending to be black making some signs in the air. This is the future. Holy crap. We are doomed.
You don’t watch much basketball, do you?
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,755
19,179
113
Going back to Lute Olsen, the Iowa roster has been mostly filled with guys that are not "complete" players. You know, the ones that can shoot, defend, slash, block shots and rebound. Iowa generally gets guys that can do one of those things - 2 if they are lucky. Tom Davis teams were normally full of guys like that.

(Garza and Keegan are a couple of notable exceptions, but they didn't become complete until after they got to Iowa.)

But Davis was pretty good at building a team of individual components and having them work together. It's like he knew he wasn't going to land a complete player, so he would recruit individual skills. He had guys that could shoot the lights out but nothing else, or guys that could rebound but nothing else.

I don't think Fran does that. Of course, the one's that are already complete don't come to Iowa. So, he tries to recruit the best player he can find at a given position that might have a chance to develop into a complete player.

This team is mostly a collection of players that haven't developed, and they aren't really excellent at any one thing. So, you've got a bunch of pretty good guys that can beat teams outside the top 50, but have very little margin for error against the top 50.

I don't see it changing under Fran,
 
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icwesthawk

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Feb 11, 2009
5,599
5,583
113
None of you knuckleheads don't think Connor and JBo aren't coming back??
200.gif
 

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
5,183
5,184
113
Besides the Murrays, we have no freaking talent. Someone refute me on this point. The other players play like they have a combination of Parkinson's and Huntington's Diseases. Why is recruiting so freaking pathetic? Perkins? Toussaint? Is one of the criteria to be recruited to Iowa that you have 0 ball handling skills, and play out of control the whole freaking time?

You know what was hilarious? They zoomed in on the bench during one of the time outs and all I was was short white guys pretending to be black making some signs in the air. This is the future. Holy crap. We are doomed.
The white guys were making signs pretending to be black?

Cool
 

blhawk

HR All-American
Oct 30, 2001
4,808
5,885
113
None of you knuckleheads don't think Connor and JBo aren't coming back??
I'd actually be surprised if Connor didn't ride daddy's coattails 1 more year before being put on staff and continuing it

In response to the rebuilding yr BS people are spewing you just can't say it's that when young guys with futures are sitting and watching washed up/never was 6th/5th yr guys with no future steal their minutes. And in the transfer portal era there is no such thing as a rebuilding year. People who are using that as an excuse are out of touch homers.

Fran shit the bed on about every decision he's made since the end of last season, every deficiency could have been addressed this off season. Instead of doing that he threw away a scholly on Ash, made rebraca his top priority, encouraged Connor and Jbo to come back (and for Connor to be a scorer FFS🤦🏻‍♂️) and had Riley reclassify. It's hard to think of Fran doing a worse job in the last 10 months if he was trying to.
 
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intrepodor

All-Conference
Nov 2, 2010
381
361
63
Next year

1- Joe Toussaint, Dasonte Bowen, Ahron Ulis
2- Tony Perkins, Josh Dix
3- Patrick McCaffery, Payton Sandfort
4- Kris Murray, Filip Rebraca
5- Filip Rebraca, Josh Ogundele, Riley Mulvey
Scratch Dix. It'll be 2 years before we see him.
 

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