Tennessee school board votes unanimously to ban book about the Holocaust

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
15,175
15,343
113
Knowledge of (never mind interest in) history has always struck me as disappointing.

I’ve always had a fascination with WW2, and have read extensively about (mainly on the military side, the holocaust materials I have on the shelf would be from the visit to Dachau as a kid.)
But I think I could only name about three camps - Dachau, Auschwitz, and Treblinka. I’m wondering what they mean by ‘40,000 camps and ghettos’. Are there even 10,000 cities/towns in Europe? That just seems like an absurdly high number, and I’m trying to wrap my head around what they’re counting.

Before some idiot says this is holocaust denial, it’s not, I’m just trying understand what they mean by that number. It doesn’t make sense.

All of this aside because this is at least the third thread on this subject.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: thewop

BioHawk

HR Legend
Sep 21, 2005
37,681
37,005
113
Knowledge of (never mind interest in) history has always struck me as disappointing.

I’ve always had a fascination with WW2, and have read extensively about (mainly on the military side, the holocaust materials I have on the shelf would be from the visit to Dachau as a kid.)
But I think I could only name about three camps - Dachau, Auschwitz, and Treblinka. I’m wondering what they mean by ‘40,000 camps and ghettos’. Are there even 10,000 cities/towns in Europe? That just seems like an absurdly high number, and I’m trying to wrap my head around what they’re counting.

Before some idiot says this is holocaust, it’s not, I’m just trying understand what they mean by that number. It doesn’t make sense.

All of this aside because this is at least the third thread on this subject.
My guess is they are combining the numbers of ghettos and concentration camps and are using a pretty liberal interpretation of what a ghetto is, or was. Maybe there were multiple ghettos in one city. The point is there were a lot of them though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: torbee

seminole97

HR Legend
Jun 14, 2005
15,175
15,343
113
My guess is they are combining the numbers of ghettos and concentration camps and are using a pretty liberal interpretation of what a ghetto is, or was. Maybe there were multiple ghettos in one city. The point is there were a lot of them though.
So just rattle off the name of any European cities?
The Warsaw Ghetto is famous, but really only because of the uprising as the Red Army approached… and then waited.
 

UNCLawHawk

HR All-American
Gold Member
Jun 20, 2001
4,629
203
63
“It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids," he added, describing the depictions in "Maus" of true historical events. "Why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff? It is not wise or healthy."

This paragraph from the story really sums up this whole book banning movement to me. People just simply want to deny that anything bad has ever happened. Some of them are well intentioned, they don't want their child to suffer the trauma of seeing kids killed. I get that. I have two kids. But here is the thing, kids did get killed. And we need to remember that. Is it fun? No. But it is necessary for us to understand how that could happen so that our kids know what is at stake with the stances certain people take. Is the school promoting it? NO! There is a difference between reporting/teaching and promoting. This is teaching.
 

BioHawk

HR Legend
Sep 21, 2005
37,681
37,005
113
So just rattle off the name of any European cities?
The Warsaw Ghetto is famous, but really only because of the uprising as the Red Army approached… and then waited.
Certainly any medium or larger would have had them.
 

BioHawk

HR Legend
Sep 21, 2005
37,681
37,005
113
“It shows people hanging, it shows them killing kids," he added, describing the depictions in "Maus" of true historical events. "Why does the educational system promote this kind of stuff? It is not wise or healthy."

This paragraph from the story really sums up this whole book banning movement to me. People just simply want to deny that anything bad has ever happened. Some of them are well intentioned, they don't want their child to suffer the trauma of seeing kids killed. I get that. I have two kids. But here is the thing, kids did get killed. And we need to remember that. Is it fun? No. But it is necessary for us to understand how that could happen so that our kids know what is at stake with the stances certain people take. Is the school promoting it? NO! There is a difference between reporting/teaching and promoting. This is teaching.
This is also a prime example of why parents aren't qualified to be making curriculum decisions.
 

Joes Place

HR King
Aug 28, 2003
117,853
107,833
113
Are there even 10,000 cities/towns in Europe?

Holy (uneducated) shit, Batman!!!

Q: How many cities does Europe have?
A: Sticking to the definition the EU uses and therefore looking for LAUs within this sheet you will find that there are 113,178 of them.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rudolph and IACub

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
45,192
36,501
113
39
To be fair, I never learned about the holocaust via a graphic novel.

Quite frankly it seems like a poor way of learning about the holocaust.

That said I do think that it's important at the very least in high school to show the pictures of the piled bodies and the mass graves. Some shock to the system is needed when it comes to these things, otherwise it's a lot easier for people to take holocaust denial seriously.

I'm not sure about a graphic novel though.

Seems much ado about nothing really. School board isn't stopping them from learning about the holocaust, they are opposing one particular book.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
45,192
36,501
113
39

Ummm

Silly question

How is it that based on this survey only 37% of younger Americans are aware of the Holocaust but 52% of them could name a concentration camp or ghetto.

Unless of course they are tricking you by making you think that these people are unaware of the holocaust when in reality they were only unaware about the specific number of people killed.

Because if you are aware it was a massive genocide, you've seen the pictures, you know it happened but you don't know the specific number of people killed. . . I really don't think that's a big deal. The point is knowing about it, not knowing the specific number.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJ8869

TJ8869

HR Legend
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2006
46,506
43,376
113
Ummm

Silly question

How is it that based on this survey only 37% of younger Americans are aware of the Holocaust but 52% of them could name a concentration camp or ghetto.

Unless of course they are tricking you by making you think that these people are unaware of the holocaust when in reality they were only unaware about the specific number of people killed.

Because if you are aware it was a massive genocide, you've seen the pictures, you know it happened but you don't know the specific number of people killed. . . I really don't think that's a big deal. The point is knowing about it, not knowing the specific number.
It all depends on how the questions are phrased, but I suspect you are right that a number of people realize the Holocaust occurred but aren’t fully aware of the magnitude of the devastation.

I consider myself fairly well informed on the Holocaust, but I was surprised to read that there were 40,000 camps and ghettos. I knew there were a lot of them scattered across German-occupied Europe and I know the names of several of them. But I wouldn’t have guessed that there were 40,000 of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoosierhawkeye

Hoosierhawkeye

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2008
45,192
36,501
113
39
It all depends on how the questions are phrased, but I suspect you are right that a number of people realize the Holocaust occurred but aren’t fully aware of the magnitude of the devastation.

I consider myself fairly well informed on the Holocaust, but I was surprised to read that there were 40,000 camps and ghettos. I knew there were a lot of them scattered across German-occupied Europe and I know the names of several of them. But I wouldn’t have guessed that there were 40,000 of them.

That's the thing to me.

2 million, 4 million, 6 million, 20 million. . . they probably didn't know the specific number, but that's not a big deal as long as they understand that MILLIONS were killed.

And with 40,000 ghettos and concentration camps. . . I could only name a few. Does that make me ignorant about the holocaust?
 

ferentzin04

HR Heisman
Nov 3, 2004
5,443
3,853
113
I imagine they are counting sub camps too, and not all of them were extermination camps obviously. It’s easy to forget how big some of the camps got though.

For example, I want to say Dachau consisted of nearly 100 sub camps. I wouldn’t have guessed 40,000, but I’m not that shocked when looking at the whole picture.
 

ferentzin04

HR Heisman
Nov 3, 2004
5,443
3,853
113
That's the thing to me.

2 million, 4 million, 6 million, 20 million. . . they probably didn't know the specific number, but that's not a big deal as long as they understand that MILLIONS were killed.

And with 40,000 ghettos and concentration camps. . . I could only name a few. Does that make me ignorant about the holocaust?

I can give some leeway with the total number killed, depending on how the question went. Someone answering 5 million instead of 6 isn’t that troubling to me. Same with the number of camps/ghettos. There is no shame in not knowing how many camps/sub camps/ghettos there were in total. As long as you understand it was extensive.

However, if you can’t name a single concentration camp, I have no problem considering you ignorant about the Holocaust. Places like Auschwitz, Dachau, and Treblinka have to be some of the most infamous locations/names in history.
 

gohawks50

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Dec 28, 2010
8,149
13,622
113
Raise your hand if you know what the photo is that they are discussing and not just spouting talking points.
Is it this one?


or this one?


or this one?

6a00d8341c3b2653ef015392e45b2b970b-500wi.jpg
 

Jim Grizzly

HR Legend
Feb 24, 2010
11,769
4,548
113
How about read "Night" by Elie Weisel instead of some fiction about mouse?
That's a pretty standard book for most 9th grade reading lists. Maus was specifically written to allow kids to be able to access the ideas in a less horrifying way. These people (and apparently you?) are morons.

This is as easy as giving the kids an assignment and giving them the choice of which of the two to choose. Removing the book wholesale is snowflake AF.
 

SalAunese

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 11, 2002
41,645
13,660
113
Minnesota
Knowledge of (never mind interest in) history has always struck me as disappointing.

I’ve always had a fascination with WW2, and have read extensively about (mainly on the military side, the holocaust materials I have on the shelf would be from the visit to Dachau as a kid.)
But I think I could only name about three camps - Dachau, Auschwitz, and Treblinka. I’m wondering what they mean by ‘40,000 camps and ghettos’. Are there even 10,000 cities/towns in Europe? That just seems like an absurdly high number, and I’m trying to wrap my head around what they’re counting.

Before some idiot says this is holocaust denial, it’s not, I’m just trying understand what they mean by that number. It doesn’t make sense.

All of this aside because this is at least the third thread on this subject.
There were countless sub camps under the administrative umbrella of the larger camps