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Tesla: 0-60 in 1.9 Seconds. Quarter Mile in 8.9

You could be right that Tesla might not be attractive to a vulture capitalist.

That doesn't mean it isn't attractive to ordinary investors or to our society.

And it certainly doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good industry subsidize.

If it's so attractive, how come people are being forced to pay for it? These people aren't investors. They won't see any kind of return. Do you know what they get? The price of their rent goes up. The price of their utilities goes up. The price of their food goes up. All over something that they'll never be able to afford.
 
I gave you a "real answer". It's called "common stock". I didn't "scapegoat" anyone.

If you don't know how that works, then it's not worth anyone's time trying to explain it.

Common stock has nothing to do with the amounts of taxpayer money that are being poured into this company. Why do you think their stock is so high, and their beta so low?
 
If it's so attractive, how come people are being forced to pay for it? These people aren't investors. They won't see any kind of return. Do you know what they get? The price of their rent goes up. The price of their utilities goes up. The price of their food goes up. All over something that they'll never be able to afford.
The fact that subsidies are skewed toward the well off is a point I have raised off and on for years. You don't have the credibility to raise it.

The way to deal with that concern, if you are serious about it, is to provide direct subsidies. Not tax deductions or tax credits - which only helps those who make enough to pay meaningful taxes and/or itemize - but an actual discount on the purchase price.
 
Common stock has nothing to do with the amounts of taxpayer money that are being poured into this company. Why do you think their stock is so high, and their beta so low?

I wasn't going to engage but the level of stupidity here is just too much.

Detail the the taxpayer money being poured into Tesla. I presume your question is rhetorical - so find some analyst reports that indicate taxpayer funding is the reason the stock is so "high" and the beta so "low"

I'll even help you here's the 2016 10-K, they have a section titled: Governmental Programs, Incentives and Regulations

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459017003118/tsla-10k_20161231.htm
 
I wasn't going to engage but the level of stupidity here is just too much.

Detail the the taxpayer money being poured into Tesla. I presume your question is rhetorical - so find some analyst reports that indicate taxpayer funding is the reason the stock is so "high" and the beta so "low"

I'll even help you here's the 2016 10-K, they have a section titled: Governmental Programs, Incentives and Regulations

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459017003118/tsla-10k_20161231.htm

Wait, are you trying to tell me that Tesla isn't getting subsidized by the government?
 
The fact that subsidies are skewed toward the well off is a point I have raised off and on for years. You don't have the credibility to raise it.

The way to deal with that concern, if you are serious about it, is to provide direct subsidies. Not tax deductions or tax credits - which only helps those who make enough to pay meaningful taxes and/or itemize - but an actual discount on the purchase price.

I guess I'm talking to the ultimate authority on not liking subsidies...

Except that you're defending a company who is getting subsidies. I guess that means that you're the ultimate authority on not like subsidies...unless you agree with the company.
 
I could see that if it were innovation that would help everyone. Subsidizing cars for rich people doesn't do that.

I agree with that but at the same time I don't blame people who take advantage of these benefits. If the govt is stupid enough to give them out then the people should take them.

I would much rather see publicly funded innovation via our universities and other public institutions but anything they do create should then be freely given to the business community and greater public to capitalize/benefit from.
 
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charging stations are everywhere, and these are just the tesla superchargers. People spend $70k on cars all the time nowdays. I don't understand it, but I see Teslas all over the roads here. They're not lacking for customers. And trips of over 600 miles at a time are remarkably rare. Everyone stops and rests at some point.

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The only philosophical problem I have w electric cars is they are typically charged w the burning of carbon fuels so we have just removed direct pollution (burning gas) to secondary pollution (burning coal to charge the car).

I am happy to live in a state that is currently 40% green energy production w a real plan to get to 100% in the next decade.

Oh and my solar panels are going up right now!
 
Well, gas burning cars are 100% carbon burning. Electric cars are about 87% carbon burning. That is some improvement. And will continue as we move toward increased green energy. Plus, the restrictions on emissions at power plants is stricter than that on exhaust pipes isn't it?
 
Walmart says it's preordered 15 of Tesla's new electric tractor trailers
Five of the preordered vehicles will be for Wal-Mart U.S., and 10 will be for Wal-Mart Canada, the company said.

"We have a long history of testing new technology – including alternative-fuel trucks – and we are excited to be among the first to pilot this new heavy-duty electric vehicle," the company said in a statement to CNBC.

"We believe we can learn how this technology performs within our supply chain, as well as how it could help us meet some of our long-term sustainability goals, such as lowering emissions."

The pilot is planned for the U.S. and Canada. Wal-Mart's fleet has about 6,000 trucks.

In an expansion from personal vehicles, Tesla CEO Elon Musk unveiled an electric semitractor-trailer Thursday that has a 500-mile range on a single charge and is electronically connected with a fleet's management system. The vehicle allows the driver to stand and puts the steering wheel in the center with a touchscreen panel on both sides of the driver. Musk said the truck is set to go into production in 2019, although the company has fallen far behind on its production schedule for the Model 3 mass market consumer vehicles.

Tesla shares closed up 0.8 percent Friday.

J.B. Hunt Transport Services announced earlier on Friday it has reserved "multiple" new electric semis just unveiled by Elon Musk.

A company could save tens of thousands of dollars if the Tesla Semi is, as Musk said, 25 cents cheaper to operate per mile than a standard diesel truck.

The average number of miles driven a year per large truck is just over 100,000, according to industry analysts. That means each Tesla Semi could save a company at least $25,000 a year
 
I agree with that but at the same time I don't blame people who take advantage of these benefits. If the govt is stupid enough to give them out then the people should take them.

I would much rather see publicly funded innovation via our universities and other public institutions but anything they do create should then be freely given to the business community and greater public to capitalize/benefit from.

Good post, sir.
 
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Before I bother to read them - quote the portion where tax payers are pouring in cash. You don't need to link that to the stock price and beta yet.

Don't read them, I don't care. The stock price and beta don't even mean anything, but if you can't find them, then you don't need to be in the conversation. Somehow, I don't think it would even take you 30 seconds to find them.
 
Well, gas burning cars are 100% carbon burning. Electric cars are about 87% carbon burning. That is some improvement. And will continue as we move toward increased green energy. Plus, the restrictions on emissions at power plants is stricter than that on exhaust pipes isn't it?

I have no idea. I just know that burning up coal isn't a great thing either.
 
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Don't read them, I don't care. The stock price and beta don't even mean anything, but if you can't find them, then you don't need to be in the conversation. Somehow, I don't think it would even take you 30 seconds to find them.

Not willing to back up your claims huh. You implied that the stock price is high and the beta low because of tax payer subsidies, I'm not even asking you to show the link, not a hyperlink to their stock price. Damn you're dumb soup.
 
Not willing to back up your claims huh. You implied that the stock price is high and the beta low because of tax payer subsidies, I'm not even asking you to show the link, not a hyperlink to their stock price. Damn you're dumb soup.

No, that's why I only included four different links. If I wanted to prove something, I would have posted at least ten.
 
Quote the tax payer cash pouring in from one of your ten links.

Go read the links. You posted a link without any kind of information, now I've done the same. Stop being a hypocrite, nut up, and tell me where I'm wrong. Otherwise I'm going to chalk you up to a troll and just stop responding.
 
Go read the links. You posted a link without any kind of information, now I've done the same. Stop being a hypocrite, nut up, and tell me where I'm wrong. Otherwise I'm going to chalk you up to a troll and just stop responding.

Lol soup, you made a claim and refuse to back it up. Hilarious you think Tesla's 10k doesn't contain any information.

Prove your claim that tax payer dollars are pouring into Tesla.
 
charging stations are everywhere, and these are just the tesla superchargers. People spend $70k on cars all the time nowdays. I don't understand it, but I see Teslas all over the roads here. They're not lacking for customers. And trips of over 600 miles at a time are remarkably rare. Everyone stops and rests at some point.

2017.png
so 8 in iowa. Sounds reasonable to serve three million plus people plus everyone driving through on I-80 where most appear to be located.
 
so 8 in iowa. Sounds reasonable to serve three million plus people plus everyone driving through on I-80 where most appear to be located.

....I'm sure there was a time when there were no cellular towers in Iowa, either, because only 8 people owned cellphones....
 
So, in other words, Tesla is not being singled out for subsidies, but is applying for and receiving those that are available. Kind of like when you take a deductions or a tax credit that you (and many others) are eligible to receive.

You can argue that we shouldn't offer subsidies that make our country better off. Not sure why you would want to, but you can.

That said, it's kind of dumb to pick on Tesla. I mean the whole point of sensible subsidies is to attract private enterprise and scientific creativity into useful areas. When companies like Tesla take us up on the offer, that's exactly what we are hoping will happen.

There comes a time when you hope the useful enterprises can continue on their own, without subsidies. Then a problem can come up that entrenched powers prevent the removal of outdated subsidies. You know, like the $79 billion in ongoing fossil energy subsidies. Which the right seldom complains about at all, and never complains about sincerely.
 
As I understand it, with a few more signatories this year, the US is the ONLY NATION ON EARTH that is not part of the Paris Accord. Our reps were just at COP23 pushing for coal, oil and nuclear.

The rest of the world ought to embargo us or impose tariffs on our products until we stop being the enemy of life on our planet.

Why do you think they aren't doing that?
 
Electric will replace everything because it is better not because tree huggers shoved it down our throats.

Basically this. Musk and Tesla are eating it right now because Electric is the future. They are setting themselves up to be on the forefront of the transition.
 
Electric will replace everything because it is better not because tree huggers shoved it down our throats.
Basically this. Musk and Tesla are eating it right now because Electric is the future. They are setting themselves up to be on the forefront of the transition.
Without the "tree huggers" we'd be MUCH further behind the curve.

Obama was barely OK on this. Some would even argue that's being too kind. Trump and the GOP are taking us entirely in the wrong direction.
 
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