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The 66-year alliance between the U.S. and South Korea is in deep trouble

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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By Richard Armitage and Victor Cha
November 22, 2019 at 5:24 p.m. CST
Richard Armitage, a former deputy secretary of state, 2001-2005, is the president of the business consultancy Armitage International. Victor Cha, a former member of the National Security Council, 2004-2007, is a professor at Georgetown University and senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The 66-year alliance between the United States and the Republic of Korea is in deep trouble. The U.S.-China trade war, the South Korean government’s quiet leaning toward Beijing and President Trump’s transactional view of alliances have created a unique constellation of forces. The result could be a premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from the peninsula at a time when North Korea’s nuclear threat and China’s regional dominance grow unabated.

The 11th-hour decision by South Korean President Moon Jae-in’s administration on Friday to postpone its planned termination of an intelligence-sharing agreement among the United States, Japan and South Korea was wise, but damage to the reservoir of trust in the relationship had already been done. Seoul’s apparent leveraging of the valued agreement to compel Washington’s involvement in economic and historical disputes between South Korea and Japan — the United States’ two major democratic allies in the Pacific — was an act of alliance abuse.

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The threat to end the intelligence cooperation not only degrades the ability of the three to respond to North Korean nuclear or missile tests but also represents a potential decoupling of South Korea’s security interests from those of Japan and the United States, in a significant sign of alliance erosion. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe regards North Korea’s nuclear weapons as an existential threat, but Moon — whose party will face challenging national elections in the spring — prefers to play down the threat. He focuses instead on inter-Korean economic engagement projects to boost the flagging South Korean economy.

Trump added to the friction in the U.S.-South Korea relationship on Nov. 19 when he demanded that South Korea pay more for the cost of stationing 28,500 U.S. forces on the peninsula. Seoul is likely to reject the demand. The current defense burden-sharing negotiations, with a $5 billion price tag set by U.S. negotiators, had just completed another round this week where the U.S. team walked out of the talks early. It was a rare public acknowledgment of an open rift in the alliance.

The U.S. demand is politically unfeasible for the Moon government because it represents a fivefold increase in payments over previous agreements. Moreover, South Korea has just paid 90 percent of the costs of a new nearly $11 billion U.S. base at Camp Humphreys, the U.S. military’s largest overseas installation. The Korean people’s anger at perceived Washington greed was evident in demonstrations this month when protesters broke the perimeter of the U.S. ambassador’s residence.

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China looms as a significant factor in the deteriorating relationship. The U.S.-China trade war has strained ties between Washington and Seoul — South Korean mobile phone carriers are chafing at a U.S. demand that allies stop using Huawei equipment for their 5G networks. And even though China has punished South Korean businesses over Seoul’s 2017 acceptance of a U.S. anti-missile defense system, South Korea still wants to join China’s proposed multilateral trade arrangement (which does not include the United States) and will not support Washington’s Free and Open Indo-Pacific concept, which is designed to check China’s challenge to freedom of navigation in Asia.

This week, in another ominous sign of the U.S.-South Korea alliance weakening, the South Korean and Chinese defense ministers on the sidelines of a multilateral gathering in Southeast Asia inked an agreement to increase defense exchanges and establish military hotlines.

The collision of all these events could cause Trump to do the unthinkable by withdrawing U.S. troops from South Korea. Doing so would be in keeping with his long-held suspicions about the value of U.S. military commitments to allies, who he thinks are free riders exploiting the U.S. security umbrella. Trump could use the failed burden-sharing negotiations with Seoul as an excuse to draw down or pull out troops. His list of indictments, beyond accusing South Korea of refusing to pay its fair share, would likely include criticism of South Korea’s delinking from the United States and Japan and its leaning toward China.

AD
In the 2019 Defense Authorization Act, Congress added language to discourage such recklessness from the White House. It bars any military spending to cut the U.S. troop level in South Korea below 22,000 unless the Pentagon certifies that allies have been consulted and the reduction won’t harm the security of the United States or its allies. But Trump could remove more than 6,000 troops and stay above the floor; such withdrawal would be a major escalation of tensions with Seoul. Or Trump could defy Congress and take out even more troops, prompting a constitutional confrontation.

That would be a U.S. foreign policy disaster, with shock waves ranging from Japan to NATO. It would make the abandonment of the Kurds look like a harbinger of U.S. isolationism, and it would represent the beginning of the United States ceding global-power status to China.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f593fc-0d63-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html
 
Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe regards North Korea’s nuclear weapons as an existential threat, but Moon — whose party will face challenging national elections in the spring — prefers to play down the threat. He focuses instead on inter-Korean economic engagement projects to boost the flagging South Korean economy.
Wait! The S.Korean economy is flagging?

I thought they were one of the bright spots in the world economy in recent years. When did that change, and how worried should we be?
 
Trump added to the friction in the U.S.-South Korea relationship on Nov. 19 when he demanded that South Korea pay more for the cost of stationing 28,500 U.S. forces on the peninsula. Seoul is likely to reject the demand. The current defense burden-sharing negotiations, with a $5 billion price tag set by U.S. negotiators, had just completed another round this week where the U.S. team walked out of the talks early. It was a rare public acknowledgment of an open rift in the alliance.
I love that Trump is converting the US military into a bunch of paid mercenaries. I wonder how much Blackwater would charge?

Couple that with our support of Abe's desire to change Japan's constitution to allow it to build up its military. I wonder how long it would take Japan to have nukes?
 
The United States had a good run as empires go but they all must fall. Might be a good thing.
We aren't prepared for that.

Both parties failed to use our clout at its peak to change the rules and assure a more peaceful, sustainable world for the future. Now it's nearly too late. Unless we change course dramatically and convincingly, we will have to become more and more vicious and destructive in order to hang on.

Sadly, the GOP is better at being vicious and destructive. And only a few Dem contenders for 2020 are suggesting the kind of change we really need.
 
Richard Armitage of Iraq war debacle fame? Who gives a crap what that lifelong warmongering dipshit thinks about anything?


The left continues its adoption of the neoconservative views they spent the 2000s taking a dump on

The Plame Affair" is a name assigned by the press to a journalistic and governmental uproar over the outing of Valerie Plame as a covert intelligence operative during the administration of President George W. Bush in 2003. An American syndicated columnist, Robert Novak, had learned of her employment by the CIA from Armitage, who was then working for the State Department, and Novak had publicly identified her as the source of a recommendation given to the President in the course of her duties. Plame had to resign from the CIA because her identity was no longer secret. A criminal investigation into the revelation produced no charges against Armitage but several charges against Scooter Libby, an assistant to Vice President Dick Cheney, for lying to the investigators about the matter.
 
This week, in another ominous sign of the U.S.-South Korea alliance weakening, the South Korean and Chinese defense ministers on the sidelines of a multilateral gathering in Southeast Asia inked an agreement to increase defense exchanges and establish military hotlines.
[from that link]

Seoul’s announcement coincided with growing resentment at the $5 billion (£3.9bn) annual fee that Washington is demanding to keep 28,500 US troops in South Korea.

That figure is a sharp increase from the $923 million that Seoul paid this year, which was an 8 per cent increase on the previous year.

An editorial in Monday’s edition of The Korea Times ... accus[ed] the president of regarding the Korea-US mutual defence treaty “as a property deal to make money”.

...a recent survey by the Korea Institute for National Reunification showing that 96 per cent of people are opposed to Seoul paying more for the US military presence."
 
In the 2019 Defense Authorization Act, Congress added language to discourage such recklessness from the White House. It bars any military spending to cut the U.S. troop level in South Korea below 22,000 unless the Pentagon certifies that allies have been consulted and the reduction won’t harm the security of the United States or its allies. But Trump could remove more than 6,000 troops and stay above the floor; such withdrawal would be a major escalation of tensions with Seoul. Or Trump could defy Congress and take out even more troops, prompting a constitutional confrontation.
Sounds like fun.

If Hannity plants the seed, I expect Trump to jump on this.
 
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[Removing troops from SK] would be a U.S. foreign policy disaster, with shock waves ranging from Japan to NATO. It would make the abandonment of the Kurds look like a harbinger of U.S. isolationism, and it would represent the beginning of the United States ceding global-power status to China.
Already happening. It would accelerate it.
 
I don’t have a problem with charging them.

if this country is ever goi g to get out of debt we can’t be the police to the entire free world
 
I would be for a removal of troops from the Korean Peninsula. Negotiate a treaty that would lead to a phased withdrawal of troops over say a 25 year timeline. There is no need for United States troops in South Korea. They’ve outgrown the need for our troops.

People will say that we are defending the South Koreans from the Chinese. The only way we could stop China from taking South Korea is with nuclear weapons. Do you really want to end the world?
 
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I don’t have a problem with charging them.

if this country is ever going to get out of debt we can’t be the police to the entire free world
If we are going to get out of debt we should try sensible tax policy and budgeting, first.
Where does South Korea stand as far as reimbursing the US the costs for having troops stationed on their soil?
Has the stability on the Korean Peninsula and in Asia as a whole been a good investment for the US? Has our economy benefited from peace?
 
If we are going to get out of debt we should try sensible tax policy and budgeting, first.
Where does South Korea stand as far as reimbursing the US the costs for having troops stationed on their soil?
Has the stability on the Korean Peninsula and in Asia as a whole been a good investment for the US? Has our economy benefited from peace?
In a global economy I don’t see how the United States can be expected essentially pay for other country’s defenses and expect to also provide its Own citizens the social services they desire. You are basically taken on other countries responsibilities reducing their costs while increasing your own.

this is like McDonald’s paying the invoice for Burger Kings bread bill.
 
In a global economy I don’t see how the United States can be expected essentially pay for other country’s defenses and expect to also provide its Own citizens the social services they desire. You are basically taken on other countries responsibilities reducing their costs while increasing your own.

this is like McDonald’s paying the invoice for Burger Kings bread bill.
So, South Korea pays nothing for it's own defense and doesn't reimburse the US for having troops stationed there?
 
I love that Trump is converting the US military into a bunch of paid mercenaries. I wonder how much Blackwater would charge?

They were mercs before Trump was born.
Have you never heard of Smedley Butler?


Couple that with our support of Abe's desire to change Japan's constitution to allow it to build up its military. I wonder how long it would take Japan to have nukes?

A few months to assemble components.
 
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So, South Korea pays nothing for it's own defense and doesn't reimburse the US for having troops stationed there?

They have an economy roughly 40x the size of North Korea and a larger populace.
Why do you think the US should pay anything for their defense?
 
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The South Koreans are our friends and they fought with us in Vietnam (ROKS). Please let's not let them down like trump just did to the Kurds.

So when Korea was a dictatorship under our Cold War sphere of influence they sent some troops to participate in our failed effort to keep Vietnam a western vassal.
For that heroic contribution to world peace over 50 years ago Americans should continue to borrow money and pay for their defense from starving North Korea.

“The result could be a premature withdrawal”

24,227 days ago we stopped fighting Korean War, but if we left Korea tomorrow it’d too soon for neocons.
 
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In a global economy I don’t see how the United States can be expected essentially pay for other country’s defenses and expect to also provide its Own citizens the social services they desire. You are basically taken on other countries responsibilities reducing their costs while increasing your own.

this is like McDonald’s paying the invoice for Burger Kings bread bill.

I'd say it's more like a protection racket and a way to prop up the need for ever increasing spending on the US's largest jobs program.
 
So when Korea was a dictatorship under our Cold War sphere of influence they sent some troops to participate in our failed effort to keep Vietnam a western vassal.
For that heroic contribution to world peace over 50 years ago Americans should continue to borrow money and pay for their defense from starving North Korea.

“The result could be a premature withdrawal”

24,227 days ago we stopped fighting Korean War, but if we left Korea tomorrow it’d too soon for neocons.

None of that matters when our citizens will do almost anything to keep their defense sector jobs or 401k's growing.
 
I'm really really glad none of you have anything at all to do with foreign diplomacy.
 
They were mercs before Trump was born.
Have you never heard of Smedley Butler?
To be sure. But we got better for a while. And Smedley wasn't being rented out to foreign powers. He was being rented out to US corporations. That part hasn't changed much, but now we are also renting our troops to foreign powers, if Trump has his way.
 
So when Korea was a dictatorship under our Cold War sphere of influence they sent some troops to participate in our failed effort to keep Vietnam a western vassal.
For that heroic contribution to world peace over 50 years ago Americans should continue to borrow money and pay for their defense from starving North Korea.

“The result could be a premature withdrawal”

24,227 days ago we stopped fighting Korean War, but if we left Korea tomorrow it’d too soon for neocons.

they sent some troops? They were our best support and lead in that war. Like many of us, they didn't know it would end the way it did, but that doesn't take away how well they fought, but I understand you are not aware of their contribution. Maybe we should stop with supporting Israel and that corrupt a hole as well. Maybe if Bush/Cheney wouldn't have lied about WMDs, we would have save a couple trillion bucks and thousands of lives and thousand more injuries to our good American troops. See how this works?
 
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they sent some troops? They were our best support and lead in that war. Like many of us, they didn't know it would end the way it did, but that doesn't take away how well they fought, but I understand you are not aware of their contribution. Maybe we should stop with supporting Israel and that corrupt a hole as well. Maybe if Bush/Cheney wouldn't have lied about WMDs, we would have save a couple trillion bucks and thousands of lives and thousand more injuries to our good American troops. See how this works?
I find your comment confusing. What points are you trying to make?
 
So let me get this straight.....libs on this board get upset if troops are sent to foreign countries when a repub is president. And now they are upset because troops could be withdrawn from a foreign country while a repub is president. That about cover it?
 
Here is the 1st of 40 F-35A headed to the South Korean Air Force.
image_5b212cc6c49223_22269485.jpg
 
American policy of bases around the world is to help prevent WW3. If you think that is expensive, consider the costs of a global conflict when Trump makes America isolationist again.
 
Richard Armitage of Iraq war debacle fame? Who gives a crap what that lifelong warmongering dipshit thinks about anything?


The left continues its adoption of the neoconservative views they spent the 2000s taking a dump on

The Plame Affair" is a name assigned by the press to a journalistic and governmental uproar over the outing of Valerie Plame as a covert intelligence operative during the administration of President George W. Bush in 2003. An American syndicated columnist, Robert Novak, had learned of her employment by the CIA from Armitage, who was then working for the State Department, and Novak had publicly identified her as the source of a recommendation given to the President in the course of her duties. Plame had to resign from the CIA because her identity was no longer secret. A criminal investigation into the revelation produced no charges against Armitage but several charges against Scooter Libby, an assistant to Vice President Dick Cheney, for lying to the investigators about the matter.

What does that have to do with the left crazy man?
 
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So let me get this straight.....libs on this board get upset if troops are sent to foreign countries when a repub is president. And now they are upset because troops could be withdrawn from a foreign country while a repub is president. That about cover it?
So you don't understand the difference between lying to send troops into a war versus stationing troops to prevent hostilities. Might want to sit this out.
 
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they sent some troops? They were our best support and lead in that war.
Like many of us, they didn't know it would end the way it did, but that doesn't take away how well they fought, but I understand you are not aware of their contribution.

I'm aware the Korean dictatorship sent troops to Vietnam.
My dad was a USAF REMF. Two tours at Tan Son Nhut from '67-'69.
He told me the ROK MPs were the scariest bastards he ever met. Told me they broke up a bar fight discharging an M-16 into the room until the fighting stopped.

Maybe we should stop with supporting Israel and that corrupt a hole as well. Maybe if Bush/Cheney wouldn't have lied about WMDs, we would have save a couple trillion bucks and thousands of lives and thousand more injuries to our good American troops. See how this works?

0e3.png
 
By Richard Armitage and Victor Cha
November 22, 2019 at 5:24 p.m. CST
Richard Armitage, a former deputy secretary of state, 2001-2005, is the president of the business consultancy Armitage International. Victor Cha, a former member of the National Security Council, 2004-2007, is a professor at Georgetown University and senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The 66-year alliance between the United States and the Republic of Korea is in deep trouble. The U.S.-China trade war, the South Korean government’s quiet leaning toward Beijing and President Trump’s transactional view of alliances have created a unique constellation of forces. The result could be a premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from the peninsula at a time when North Korea’s nuclear threat and China’s regional dominance grow unabated.

The 11th-hour decision by South Korean President Moon Jae-in’s administration on Friday to postpone its planned termination of an intelligence-sharing agreement among the United States, Japan and South Korea was wise, but damage to the reservoir of trust in the relationship had already been done. Seoul’s apparent leveraging of the valued agreement to compel Washington’s involvement in economic and historical disputes between South Korea and Japan — the United States’ two major democratic allies in the Pacific — was an act of alliance abuse.

AD
The threat to end the intelligence cooperation not only degrades the ability of the three to respond to North Korean nuclear or missile tests but also represents a potential decoupling of South Korea’s security interests from those of Japan and the United States, in a significant sign of alliance erosion. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe regards North Korea’s nuclear weapons as an existential threat, but Moon — whose party will face challenging national elections in the spring — prefers to play down the threat. He focuses instead on inter-Korean economic engagement projects to boost the flagging South Korean economy.

Trump added to the friction in the U.S.-South Korea relationship on Nov. 19 when he demanded that South Korea pay more for the cost of stationing 28,500 U.S. forces on the peninsula. Seoul is likely to reject the demand. The current defense burden-sharing negotiations, with a $5 billion price tag set by U.S. negotiators, had just completed another round this week where the U.S. team walked out of the talks early. It was a rare public acknowledgment of an open rift in the alliance.

The U.S. demand is politically unfeasible for the Moon government because it represents a fivefold increase in payments over previous agreements. Moreover, South Korea has just paid 90 percent of the costs of a new nearly $11 billion U.S. base at Camp Humphreys, the U.S. military’s largest overseas installation. The Korean people’s anger at perceived Washington greed was evident in demonstrations this month when protesters broke the perimeter of the U.S. ambassador’s residence.

AD
ADVERTISING
China looms as a significant factor in the deteriorating relationship. The U.S.-China trade war has strained ties between Washington and Seoul — South Korean mobile phone carriers are chafing at a U.S. demand that allies stop using Huawei equipment for their 5G networks. And even though China has punished South Korean businesses over Seoul’s 2017 acceptance of a U.S. anti-missile defense system, South Korea still wants to join China’s proposed multilateral trade arrangement (which does not include the United States) and will not support Washington’s Free and Open Indo-Pacific concept, which is designed to check China’s challenge to freedom of navigation in Asia.

This week, in another ominous sign of the U.S.-South Korea alliance weakening, the South Korean and Chinese defense ministers on the sidelines of a multilateral gathering in Southeast Asia inked an agreement to increase defense exchanges and establish military hotlines.

The collision of all these events could cause Trump to do the unthinkable by withdrawing U.S. troops from South Korea. Doing so would be in keeping with his long-held suspicions about the value of U.S. military commitments to allies, who he thinks are free riders exploiting the U.S. security umbrella. Trump could use the failed burden-sharing negotiations with Seoul as an excuse to draw down or pull out troops. His list of indictments, beyond accusing South Korea of refusing to pay its fair share, would likely include criticism of South Korea’s delinking from the United States and Japan and its leaning toward China.

AD
In the 2019 Defense Authorization Act, Congress added language to discourage such recklessness from the White House. It bars any military spending to cut the U.S. troop level in South Korea below 22,000 unless the Pentagon certifies that allies have been consulted and the reduction won’t harm the security of the United States or its allies. But Trump could remove more than 6,000 troops and stay above the floor; such withdrawal would be a major escalation of tensions with Seoul. Or Trump could defy Congress and take out even more troops, prompting a constitutional confrontation.

That would be a U.S. foreign policy disaster, with shock waves ranging from Japan to NATO. It would make the abandonment of the Kurds look like a harbinger of U.S. isolationism, and it would represent the beginning of the United States ceding global-power status to China.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f593fc-0d63-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html

You are clueless weirdo for even posting this ridiculous garbage. Dumb.
 
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