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The absurd legal theory conservative judges are using to restrict voting

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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A novel legal theory is surging among conservative judges and justices. The notion is that, under the Constitution, only state legislatures — without any input from state executives or courts — may set the rules for presidential elections. This theory is clearly a misunderstanding of constitutional election law. But it’s actually worse than that: It fundamentally misapprehends how law itself functions. To imagine that the work of legislatures can be wholly isolated from the work of other parts of our government is a fantasy untethered from an inescapable feature of the American legal system: Law represents an interplay between legislators and those who must interpret and implement their handiwork, including judges and executive branch officials.
Here’s what everyone agrees on: Article II of the Constitution says that “[e]ach State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct,” that state’s representatives to the electoral college, which chooses the president. No one disputes the basic reality that state legislatures typically take the lead in setting rules for the statewide elections that choose electors who, in turn, choose a president.
Follow the latest on Election 2020
But in the past couple of weeks, the focus on two words in that constitutional text — “the Legislature” — has been taken to fanatical extremes. Most recent — and most absurd — is a decision on Thursday by a federal court of appeals that, five days before Election Day (too late for the state to do anything to respond to it), abruptly changed the rule for Minnesota voters from a requirement that their mail-in ballots be sent by Election Day to a requirement that those ballots be received by Election Day, thus unsettling at the last moment both the law and voters’ expectations. The two judges voting for that outcome insisted that a state official who’d interpreted state law to allow the more accommodating deadline had intruded on a power reserved to the legislature alone. It’s the same basic notion that Justice Neil M. Gorsuch expressed in voting to halt a decision by North Carolina’s State Board of Elections interpreting North Carolina law on election rules, and that Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. articulated in voting to halt a Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision interpreting that state’s election laws. Alito insisted on strict adherence to “the provisions of the Federal Constitution conferring on state legislatures, not state courts, the authority to make rules governing federal elections.”
The Supreme Court shouldn’t decide voting cases. It keeps getting them wrong.
There’s the core principle uniting all of these recent decisions: State election rules must be set by state legislatures alone.
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Put aside that this is the opposite of what the U.S. Supreme Court has said — including in a 2015 decision holding that the Constitution’s reference to “the Legislature” means a state’s process of making laws, including a governor’s role in vetoing laws and courts’ role in interpreting laws. And put aside the oddity that this idea means that a ballot could count for Minnesota’s state elections but somehow not for federal ones, even though the same legislature enacted the rules for both of them and the ballot includes candidates for both sorts of offices. Even more fundamentally, this newfound notion that legislatures must, in utter isolation, set election rules alone is impossible to square with the basics of how law works in America.
To see why, imagine a state legislature who enacts a law that says: “On Election Day, the polls shall close at 6 p.m. or, if the weather is inclement, later that evening. The time at which the polls will close, in the advance of possible inclement weather, shall be announced by the secretary of state on the day before Election Day. If there is a dispute as to whether the secretary of state has correctly determined the time polls will close, state judges shall resolve that dispute.”
Then imagine that the secretary of state announces the day before the election that polls will close at 8 p.m. They are, of course, acting under express authority granted by the state legislature in implementing the law. But is it “the legislature” that has set the election rules? Or, because some other entity in the state (the secretary) played some role, is their determination invalid? If it is, does that mean that the polls must close at 6 p.m. every year? But how does that give effect to the will of the legislature, whose law explicitly rejects that outcome?
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Now imagine the secretary announced a later poll closing time even though sunny skies were forecast and no one thought inclement weather was even possible. If a state judge — again, acting under express authority granted by the state legislature — rules that the secretary’s wrong, and orders the polls to close at 6 p.m. instead in accordance with the statute, is it “the legislature” that has set the election rules? Or, because a court got involved, is that determination invalid?
If these questions seem absurd in purporting to demand strict yes or no answers, it’s because they are. The legislature is still the body that set the rules even when those rules require implementation and interpretation by an executive branch official or a court. That’s how virtually all law operates every day in this country: Legislatures articulate rules, then executive officials and courts figure out how to apply and enforce them in particular circumstances. (A state legislature could try to strip the court of jurisdiction to hear such cases, and could cut out any state officials too; but, when they haven’t done that, ordinary state processes should apply.) That doesn’t rob the legislatures of their roles; to the contrary, it effectuates their roles — just as our hypothetical secretary of state and state court would.
Kavanaugh has wild ideas about voting. They likely won’t matter on Election Day.
But this hypothetical is just a less complicated version of what happened in the Minnesota, North Carolina and Pennsylvania cases. In Minnesota, a state official, relying on explicit authority granted by the state legislature, determined when mail-in ballots must be received this year to comply with the laws of the state. In North Carolina, a state election board figured out how to make sense of various state laws. In Pennsylvania, a state court played that role. In none of these cases did the decider somehow wrest power away from the state legislature as the author of the state’s election laws. In each, it tried to effectuate the legislature’s handiwork, consistent with the state and federal constitutions.
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In grade school, children learn that legislatures write the law, executives implement the law and courts interpret the law. To insist that, in the area of election administration alone, state legislatures must do it all themselves fetishizes the words “the Legislature” in the Constitution and strains them beyond recognition — because that’s never what legislatures do. For judges and justices suddenly to claim otherwise isn’t just a bad take on election law, but a bad take on law — period.
 
If you can’t win on ideas, you rig the vote and find complicit people to help you.



“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.”
― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic
 
State law governs state elections. Unless there's a provision in state law that allows executive branch to change the rules, state law prevails. That's not a new theory. The author of the article is on crack.
 
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State law governs state elections. Unless there's a provision in state law that allows executive branch to change the rules, state law prevails. That's not a new theory. The author of the article is on crack.
Bullshit. The laws passed by the legislature are implemented by the executive and interpreted by the judicial. NO branch of govt has the final say. That's basic civics which explains why it eludes conservatives.
 
State law governs state elections. Unless there's a provision in state law that allows executive branch to change the rules, state law prevails. That's not a new theory. The author of the article is on crack.

State law should be interpreted by state courts.
 
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Stupid. The legislature makes the law and in some cases gives certain latitude for execution. In this case, the date is explicitly set by law for receiving mail ballots. This isn't a "keep the polls open another hour" situation, where that authority is explicitly granted to the executive. This is a cut and dried "the ballots must be received by this date." There is no leeway on that granted under the law. The executive cannot flout that on their own whims, and the courts cannot rewrite it on the fly. Some legislatures have made adjustments. Others chose not to. That is representative democracy at work. Just because some legislatures did not do what democrats want does not mean they should just be able to ignore it, or run to a court to write new law from the bench. Speaking of civics 101, this author needs to retake it.
 
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This is a cut and dried "the ballots must be received by this date." There is no leeway on that granted under the law. The executive cannot flout that on their own whims

Except, that's EXACTLY what they argued in FL in 2000.

"late" military ballots HAD TO BE COUNTED. Because they were legitimate votes, and throwing them out amounted to disenfranchisement.

And, oddly, Kavanaugh cited this in his opinion where he argued the OPPOSITE, but used that example as his legal precedent.
 
It's offensive to "legal theory" to call this legal theory. These "judges" are political actors trying to fix an election. The ruling in Minnesota was just deplorable. The printed absentee ballots say that as long as your ballot is postmarked by election day you're good--then a couple Trump Federal judges step in and say all absentee ballots must be received by 8PM on election night.

Ridiculous.
 
A novel legal theory is surging among conservative judges and justices. The notion is that, under the Constitution, only state legislatures — without any input from state executives or courts — may set the rules for presidential elections. This theory is clearly a misunderstanding of constitutional election law. But it’s actually worse than that: It fundamentally misapprehends how law itself functions. To imagine that the work of legislatures can be wholly isolated from the work of other parts of our government is a fantasy untethered from an inescapable feature of the American legal system: Law represents an interplay between legislators and those who must interpret and implement their handiwork, including judges and executive branch officials.
Here’s what everyone agrees on: Article II of the Constitution says that “[e]ach State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct,” that state’s representatives to the electoral college, which chooses the president. No one disputes the basic reality that state legislatures typically take the lead in setting rules for the statewide elections that choose electors who, in turn, choose a president.
Follow the latest on Election 2020
But in the past couple of weeks, the focus on two words in that constitutional text — “the Legislature” — has been taken to fanatical extremes. Most recent — and most absurd — is a decision on Thursday by a federal court of appeals that, five days before Election Day (too late for the state to do anything to respond to it), abruptly changed the rule for Minnesota voters from a requirement that their mail-in ballots be sent by Election Day to a requirement that those ballots be received by Election Day, thus unsettling at the last moment both the law and voters’ expectations. The two judges voting for that outcome insisted that a state official who’d interpreted state law to allow the more accommodating deadline had intruded on a power reserved to the legislature alone. It’s the same basic notion that Justice Neil M. Gorsuch expressed in voting to halt a decision by North Carolina’s State Board of Elections interpreting North Carolina law on election rules, and that Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. articulated in voting to halt a Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision interpreting that state’s election laws. Alito insisted on strict adherence to “the provisions of the Federal Constitution conferring on state legislatures, not state courts, the authority to make rules governing federal elections.”
The Supreme Court shouldn’t decide voting cases. It keeps getting them wrong.
There’s the core principle uniting all of these recent decisions: State election rules must be set by state legislatures alone.
AD

ADVERTISING


Put aside that this is the opposite of what the U.S. Supreme Court has said — including in a 2015 decision holding that the Constitution’s reference to “the Legislature” means a state’s process of making laws, including a governor’s role in vetoing laws and courts’ role in interpreting laws. And put aside the oddity that this idea means that a ballot could count for Minnesota’s state elections but somehow not for federal ones, even though the same legislature enacted the rules for both of them and the ballot includes candidates for both sorts of offices. Even more fundamentally, this newfound notion that legislatures must, in utter isolation, set election rules alone is impossible to square with the basics of how law works in America.
To see why, imagine a state legislature who enacts a law that says: “On Election Day, the polls shall close at 6 p.m. or, if the weather is inclement, later that evening. The time at which the polls will close, in the advance of possible inclement weather, shall be announced by the secretary of state on the day before Election Day. If there is a dispute as to whether the secretary of state has correctly determined the time polls will close, state judges shall resolve that dispute.”
Then imagine that the secretary of state announces the day before the election that polls will close at 8 p.m. They are, of course, acting under express authority granted by the state legislature in implementing the law. But is it “the legislature” that has set the election rules? Or, because some other entity in the state (the secretary) played some role, is their determination invalid? If it is, does that mean that the polls must close at 6 p.m. every year? But how does that give effect to the will of the legislature, whose law explicitly rejects that outcome?
AD


Now imagine the secretary announced a later poll closing time even though sunny skies were forecast and no one thought inclement weather was even possible. If a state judge — again, acting under express authority granted by the state legislature — rules that the secretary’s wrong, and orders the polls to close at 6 p.m. instead in accordance with the statute, is it “the legislature” that has set the election rules? Or, because a court got involved, is that determination invalid?
If these questions seem absurd in purporting to demand strict yes or no answers, it’s because they are. The legislature is still the body that set the rules even when those rules require implementation and interpretation by an executive branch official or a court. That’s how virtually all law operates every day in this country: Legislatures articulate rules, then executive officials and courts figure out how to apply and enforce them in particular circumstances. (A state legislature could try to strip the court of jurisdiction to hear such cases, and could cut out any state officials too; but, when they haven’t done that, ordinary state processes should apply.) That doesn’t rob the legislatures of their roles; to the contrary, it effectuates their roles — just as our hypothetical secretary of state and state court would.
Kavanaugh has wild ideas about voting. They likely won’t matter on Election Day.
But this hypothetical is just a less complicated version of what happened in the Minnesota, North Carolina and Pennsylvania cases. In Minnesota, a state official, relying on explicit authority granted by the state legislature, determined when mail-in ballots must be received this year to comply with the laws of the state. In North Carolina, a state election board figured out how to make sense of various state laws. In Pennsylvania, a state court played that role. In none of these cases did the decider somehow wrest power away from the state legislature as the author of the state’s election laws. In each, it tried to effectuate the legislature’s handiwork, consistent with the state and federal constitutions.
AD


In grade school, children learn that legislatures write the law, executives implement the law and courts interpret the law. To insist that, in the area of election administration alone, state legislatures must do it all themselves fetishizes the words “the Legislature” in the Constitution and strains them beyond recognition — because that’s never what legislatures do. For judges and justices suddenly to claim otherwise isn’t just a bad take on election law, but a bad take on law — period.
I'm the last person who wants to see the Rs game the system to steal yet another election. But, frankly, I'm just not convinced by the argument in the article.

It strikes me as entirely plausible that the founders did intend the legislature to perform this function. And even if I'm wrong about that, we have a Court dominated by originalists who will read the entrails, inhale the incense and divine that the founders wanted it that way.

Whether we think it will succeed or not, it's clear we need to submit an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College and all the arcane, anachronistic nonsense that goes with it.

This is the effing 21st century. We should elect the President by popular vote.
 
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The printed absentee ballots say that as long as your ballot is postmarked by election day you're good--then a couple Trump Federal judges step in and say all absentee ballots must be received by 8PM on election night.

Ridiculous.


That should be ample legal justification for this to be challenged and overturned during counts.
Of course, if people get out and vote early enough, hopefully it won't matter.
 
State law governs state elections. Unless there's a provision in state law that allows executive branch to change the rules, state law prevails. That's not a new theory. The author of the article is on crack.
Yes, but the real point of the article is to lay the groundwork for expected/anticipated shenanigans by the left. You're pointing out the law. Silly boy.
 
I'm the last person who wants to see the Rs game the system to steal yet another election. But, frankly, I'm just not convinced by the argument in the article.

It strikes me as entirely plausible that the founders did intend the legislature to perform this function. And even if I'm wrong about that, we have a Court dominated by originalists who will read the entrails, inhale the incense and divine that the founders wanted it that way.

Whether we think it will succeed or not, it's clear we need to submit an amendment to get rid of the Electoral College and all the arcane, anachronistic nonsense that goes with it.

This is the effing 21st century. We should elect the President by popular vote.
So do you live in New York or California? You think that everyone else is just SOL? You'll just let the rest of us know who you've chosen?
 
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“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.”
― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic
Hey, I know that whenever I'm forced to quote something from someone who's a leftist hack, I always go straight to...a leftist hack.
 
So do you live in New York or California? You think that everyone else is just SOL? You'll just let the rest of us know who you've chosen?
If you are a Republican in NY or CA, your vote doesn't count. Ditch the EC and your vote counts exactly the same as everyone else's.

Without the EC, states no longer pick the president; people do. Every person in every state; not just people in a handful of battleground states.

I think that's better.
 
Yeah...because you have a rogue democrat secretary of state in MN who thinks he can just unilaterally rewrite election law. So, he generated ballots with his own instructions that run counter to actual Minnesota law and are based on a consent decree which has now been overturned. Now the ballots have to be segregated and the ultimate decision of whether or not they would count will be decided later. If Trump wins MN (unlikely) there will be a big fight over them. Meanwhile, there are numerous other ways to get your vote counted before or on Tues...so if anything this is a good thing, giving clarity and providing opportunities to people to ensure they utilize a method to ensure their vote will count.
 
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Yeah...because you have a rogue democrat secretary of state in MN who thinks he can just unilaterally rewrite election law. So, he generated ballots with his own instructions that run counter to actual Minnesota law and are based on a consent decree which has now been overturned. Now the ballots have to be segregated and the ultimate decision of whether or not they would count will be decided later. If Trump wins MN (unlikely) there will be a big fight over them. Meanwhile, there are numerous other ways to get your vote counted before or on Tues...so if anything this is a good thing, giving clarity and providing opportunities to people to ensure they utilize a method to ensure their vote will count.
Rogue Sec of State. LOL. And here it is, brand new legal theory proponent spreading the bullshit far and wide.

So Federal courts can come in and interpret state law/procedures per elections and "change the rules", but not the state courts or the relevant public officials in charge of elections (in this case the Minnesota Sec of State) in the affected States.

Oh sure. Just so full of shit.
 
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Yeah...because you have a rogue democrat secretary of state in MN who thinks he can just unilaterally rewrite election law. So, he generated ballots with his own instructions that run counter to actual Minnesota law and are based on a consent decree which has now been overturned. Now the ballots have to be segregated and the ultimate decision of whether or not they would count will be decided later. If Trump wins MN (unlikely) there will be a big fight over them. Meanwhile, there are numerous other ways to get your vote counted before or on Tues...so if anything this is a good thing, giving clarity and providing opportunities to people to ensure they utilize a method to ensure their vote will count.
Remember that MN is the place where they kept "discovering" uncounted ballots just long enough to steal an election from Norm Coleman and give it to Al Franken.
My son's in laws and several of his wife's family either live year round in Western MN or have summer lake cottages there and they say once you're away from the Cities the state is pretty red.
 
Rogue Sec of State. LOL. And here it is, brand new legal theory proponent spreading the bullshit far and wide.

So Federal courts can come in and interpret state law/procedures per elections and "change the rules", but not the state courts or the relevant public officials in charge of elections (in this case the Minnesota Sec of State) in the affected States.

Oh sure. Just so full of shit.
They are not changing the rules. That is what the sec of state and a lower court did in August. They are saying you can't just change the rules without the legislature and until a final decision is made, any votes collected that historically would not have been counted must be segregated.
 
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Rogue Sec of State. LOL. And here it is, brand new legal theory proponent spreading the bullshit far and wide.

So Federal courts can come in and interpret state law/procedures per elections and "change the rules", but not the state courts or the relevant public officials in charge of elections (in this case the Minnesota Sec of State) in the affected States.

Oh sure. Just so full of shit.
The legislature can. Not other "relevant public officials".
 
They are not changing the rules. That is what the sec of state and a lower court did in August. They are saying you can't just change the rules without the legislature and until a final decision is made, any votes collected that historically would not have been counted must be segregated.
Again. This. Is. Brand. New. Legal. Theory.

Days before an election, pure voter suppression by rogue Federal judges. As bad as Bush v Gore.
 
Remember that MN is the place where they kept "discovering" uncounted ballots just long enough to steal an election from Norm Coleman and give it to Al Franken.
My son's in laws and several of his wife's family either live year round in Western MN or have summer lake cottages there and they say once you're away from the Cities the state is pretty red.
Yeah mom....because NO ONE lives there! EVERYONE lives in the Twin Cities! Jeeeeebus keeeerist......but Minnesota is HARDLY a red state. Regardless of what your relation thinks. Out in the country, Minnesota is northern/western rural Iowa with a little more (clean) water.
 
Yeah mom....because NO ONE lives there! EVERYONE lives in the Twin Cities! Jeeeeebus keeeerist......but Minnesota is HARDLY a red state. Regardless of what your relation thinks. Out in the country, Minnesota is northern/western rural Iowa with a little more (clean) water.
where did I say MN's population is evenly distributed around the state? Of course it's heavily distributed towards the Cities.
Jeeeeebus keeeerist don't out words in my mouth and don't assume I don't know that about Minnesota.
 
They are not changing the rules.

The legislature stayed silent as is the norm in these types of cases as the relevant state officials implemented and relevant state courts interpreted the Minnesota election laws as is their prerogative, this time in response to a global pandemic.

And then in come 2 Federal judges in a literally unprecedented "white knighting" of a state legislature (contradicting a previous Supreme Court opinion)--and changing the rules at the least for innocent voters (the ballots are already printed and distributed--see above) days before an election.
 
Stupid. The legislature makes the law and in some cases gives certain latitude for execution. In this case, the date is explicitly set by law for receiving mail ballots. This isn't a "keep the polls open another hour" situation, where that authority is explicitly granted to the executive. This is a cut and dried "the ballots must be received by this date." There is no leeway on that granted under the law. The executive cannot flout that on their own whims, and the courts cannot rewrite it on the fly. Some legislatures have made adjustments. Others chose not to. That is representative democracy at work. Just because some legislatures did not do what democrats want does not mean they should just be able to ignore it, or run to a court to write new law from the bench. Speaking of civics 101, this author needs to retake it.

Well I guess there's a competent legal argument to be made so it's totally appropriate to cheerlead Republican voter suppression.
 
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Well I guess there's a competent legal argument to be made so it's totally appropriate to cheerlead Republican voter suppression.
Yeah...all kinds of suppression going on. People have been able to vote for weeks, this election is blowing away previous early voting and mail in numbers, it has literally never been easier or more convenient to vote...if only the people had a voice!

Besides, they are still collecting the ballots that come in late and holding them provisionally until a final decision is made...at least this way people know ahead of time that there is a potential issue and can adjust their voting plans appropriately if they are concerned.
 
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where did I say MN's population is evenly distributed around the state? Of course it's heavily distributed towards the Cities.
Jeeeeebus keeeerist don't out words in my mouth and don't assume I don't know that about Minnesota.
You’re inference was Minnesota was “red” when in fact it just isn’t. Maybe in the sticks where no one lives it is...but Minnesota is pretty blue. Always has been.
 
Well I guess there's a competent legal argument to be made so it's totally appropriate to cheerlead Republican voter suppression.
It's not a competent legal argument. It's making up new legal doctrine on the fly. I'll let smarter guys than me explain:

(1) The consent decree at issue in the case hasn’t been challenged by anyone in the Minnesota state government! This case doesn’t involve a federal court adjudicating a dispute between elements of state’s legal system regarding the application of state law. The consent decree entered into by the Secretary of State isn’t being challenged by the legislature, which means that every element of the Minnesota legal system: the legislature, the executive (via the Secretary of State), and the courts (via the consent decree) had agreed to change the election rules temporarily, to accept absentee ballots postmarked by election day but received up to a week later.

(2) The Minnesota legislature has expressly delegated to the Secretary of State the power to craft temporary changes to Minnesota election law in precisely this situation — where there’s a court order enjoining the ordinary application of those laws because of exigent circumstances (like a global pandemic). So it’s just a brazen lie to claim, as the two 8th circuit hack judges do, that the Minnesota courts and the Secretary of State’s office are creating rules that as a legal matter have to be created by the legislature. The legislature did create the rule governing this case: explicitly before the fact, via explicit delegation of rule making authority in precisely these circumstances, and by overwhelming implication after the fact, since it isn’t challenging the consent decree!

The way the 8th circuit hacks try to finesse this inconvenient truth is by implying that somehow the litigation here is in some way collusive — that the Secretary of State ginned up this consent decree with the plaintiffs as a way of doing an end run around the legislature’s rule making authority, not as a valid exercise of its lawfully delegated administrative powers. This outrageous implication isn’t supported by a shred of evidence, and in fact all the evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary (again, the legislature hasn’t challenged the decree!).

(3) The plaintiffs challenging the consent decree don’t come within a mile of having standing under either Minnesota or federal law, so the real collusion here is actually between the national Republican party and the lawless hacks it has managed to embed all over the federal judiciary.


 
You’re inference was Minnesota was “red” when in fact it just isn’t. Maybe in the sticks where no one lives it is...but Minnesota is pretty blue. Always has been.
Can we agree the Cities are blue and have most of MN's total population, while the rest of the state is more conservative and less populated? Doesn't that make it more agreeable for both of us, or did you just want to argue like the bullying phugging idiot you come across as on a message board?
❤️
 
Can we agree the Cities are blue and have most of MN's total population, while the rest of the state is more conservative and less populated? Doesn't that make it more agreeable for both of us, or did you just want to argue like the bullying phugging idiot you come across as on a message board?
Mom, with all due respect..phuque you. Why don’t you keep ur Seminole’s Florida wrinkled ass and keep it on ur own board., I am really tired of your right wing, Trump America bullshit., you stay outta here..and I will keep my arse outta Florida. Deal? Just don’t come peddling ur BS about Minnesota being “red”...well, u being who u are, I suppose u think it is. I guess you Florida Trumpanzee, might be like nurses...You can always tell a Florida Trumpanzee, you just can’t tell them much.
 
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