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The Atlantic: The Long-Shot Candidate Who Has the White House Worried

I do find it interesting that the majority of voters agree we need a viable 3rd party, but then most get cold feet when ballot casting arrives. Gary Johnson was polling quite well right up until a month or two prior to election day, then he lost all the steam.

The article itself is opinion, but I found interest in this part:

Gallup has been conducting polls regarding the need for a third party since 2003. In almost all of the polls, more than half of the adults surveyed reported they thought there was a need for a third party because the current system is failing to represent the people. In September of 2017, the poll yielded its highest percentage in the history of the poll. 61% of US adults reported that they felt a third party was needed. This spanned across both parties and independents; 77 percent of Independents, 49 percent of Republicans, and 52 percent of Democrats favored a third party. In 2015, prior to the last presidential election, 57% of Americans reported a need for a third party. However, third-party votes constituted only 4.9% of the total votes.


Gallop Poll:
Here's the problem with that...Johnson would have to win outright. Not just perform well. Win. Anything less and either you wasted your vote and your most objectionable candidate wins or the choice goes to the House. In 2016, the House was GOP controlled. The idea that they would go for Johnson...or that you could put together a coalition of Dems and Reps who would go for Johnson...is laughable.

A viable third party that draws significant votes means presidents chosen by the House. Where the third party has zero representation. Because third parties don't do that hard work.
 
Here's the problem with that...Johnson would have to win outright. Not just perform well. Win. Anything less and, either you wasted your vote and your most objectionable candidate wins or the choice goes to the House. In 2016, the House was GOP controlled. The idea that they would go for Johnson...or that you could put together a coalition of Dems and Reps who would go for Johnson...is laughable.

A viable third party that draws significant votes means presidents chosen by the House. Where the third party has zero representation. Because third parties don't do that hard work.
Forgive me for not googling this, but iirc wasn't the goal a specific voting percentage for future, federal campaign funding (not really winning)? He needed like 3%. Again, I may be misremembering. 2016 was FOREVER ago.
 
That's like going to McDonalds and ordering Waygu steak. It's certainly the best choice. You have a less than zero chance of getting it. What you get instead is the one item on their menu that you think is the absolute worst thing you could put in your mouth. If you do that, don't complain about the food you got - you knew what the choices were before you picked the steak.

You're right about Florida 2020.
Probably right about 2016 too. The problem wasn't people voting for Stein. It was the Clinton campaign putting all their eggs in the Russia basket combined with the disastrous Electoral College.

If you want to argue that Hillary would have won if we restricted voting to Hillary or Trump, I think you also have to take into consideration how Johnson voters would have voted. My guess is that Trump still wins.

I wonder how that election would have turned out if we used IRV or Approval Voting or some such procedure?

Something to consider: 3rd party voting didn't keep Obama from winning in 2008. Why not?
 
Here's the problem with that...Johnson would have to win outright. Not just perform well. Win. Anything less and either you wasted your vote and your most objectionable candidate wins....
From the point of view of Gary Johnson voters in 2016, that seems wrong. I'm reasonably confident that most of his voters would have identified Hillary as the most objectionable candidate.
 
Forgive me for not googling this, but iirc wasn't the goal a specific voting percentage for future, federal campaign funding (not really winning)? He needed like 3%. Again, I may be misremembering. 2016 was FOREVER ago.
That doesn't really change anything. So they get matching funds? So what? In the next election, they still have to win outright. They still have zero support in the House. They'd have a far greater impact electing representatives and senators who could function as coalition partners and cast votes that actually mattered. Congress is where a parliamentary mindset and third parties would matter. THAT'S how they prove they're ready for prime time. Instead we get sacrificial lambs every four years who matter less than a warm bucket of spit to borrow a phrase.
 
Was he a monster? Sure. Did he have to be removed? No.
Especially with no real plan for regime change and the one that was executed involved firing the full time armed forces, not giving them other jobs (leaving it to the new free market to sort out), with the fired soldiers remaining heavily armed. Almost like they invaded expecting to lose.
 
From the point of view of Gary Johnson voters in 2016, that seems wrong. I'm reasonably confident that most of his voters would have identified Hillary as the most objectionable candidate.
I didn't identify who would be most objectionable. But anyone who decided it was Clinton instead of Trump was an idiot. Them most of them voted for him again in 2020. There's no epithet that truly captures that.
 
Man, I don't know. Saddam and his sons, Uday and Qusay, were pure evil.
Putin is pure evil. I'm not ready to invade Russia to remove him. Xi fits the bill as well. We didn't go in to remove Saddam...we went in to reshape the ME in our image and control the only thing there that matters to us.
 
If I were king for a day, I'd divide the country into three separate ones
How about 6?

Where would you choose to live?

I wonder what happened to Alaska and Hawaii in that show?

Revolution_Map.jpg
 
I didn't identify who would be most objectionable. But anyone who decided it was Clinton instead of Trump was an idiot. Them most of them voted for him again in 2020. There's no epithet that truly captures that.
As I've stated before, under the Michael Moore analysis of post 2016, I understand first-time Trump voters. However, to do it twice is:

shocked the princess bride GIF
 
Putin is pure evil. I'm not ready to invade Russia to remove him. Xi fits the bill as well. We didn't go in to remove Saddam...we went in to reshape the ME in our image and control the only thing there that matters to us.
I guess what I mean is a hindsight positive. Not a reason for invading, but a positive after the fact.

Maybe an "Oopsie Daisy" drone strike would have been just as effective, though. :cool:
 
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As I've stated before, under the Michael Moore analysis of post 2016, I understand first-time Trump voters. However, to do it twice is:
I've forgiven my friends who voted Trump in 2016 but who came to their senses. My best friend is one of them. Whether he means it or not, he says he won't vote GOP in any race for the foreseeable future.
 
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