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The Brands Brothers

CLGLR, West Sioux and SBL dont belong in the same convo as Eburg. There was a time when the Ehawks were in the rankings for top 25 in the nation or recieving votes for a several year string.

One thing about Meester though. He was a D1 talent imo, and Iowa missed the boat by going after Mark Mueller instead.

I agree on your assessment of Eburg. Maybe I made that confusing. I don't think West Sioux and SBL have more accolades than what EBurg accomplished, I was saying recently they have more accolades than CL-GLR.

Your right on Meester he was D1 caliber. He beat a couple D1 AA guys in Vegas in the 2009 US Open. Placed 5th. Nate Herda placed 6th that same year at Vegas in Juniors. Nate had a good college career at Augie as well.
 
If were talking wrestling schools in NW Iowa I think CL-GLR should get a mention. Of course this is just my bias opinion but some stats to follow it up.

Since 1979 they've only had 5 years without a state qualifier. I chose 79 because that was the first year 4 State Champs in that run Jordan Gacke and Nate Herda were both 2xers in 07 and 08. Tom Meester was a 3 time placer 7th 3rd and 2nd (from 99-01) who went on to be a 2x National Champ in D2 at Augie. Keith Van Beek was a state champ in 85 and had some battles with Tom and Terry. Keith beat Terry 3 or 4 times but didn't beat Tom I think. Mike Vander Woude was a state champ in 89. I dont know much about Mike other than he had an undefeated season that year. Plenty of other tough wrestlers that made the finals just couldn't finish the year with a win. Curt and Scott Eben both lost in the finals. Curt was a 2x placer 5th and 2nd. Scott was a 3x placer 5th 2nd 2nd. Tim and Nate Deboer. Tim lost in the finals his senior year and Nate was a 2x placer. Recently Dylan Winkle lost in the finals this year and Kolten Bus lost in the finals the year before.

No team titles to speak of. Couple teams have qualified 99 and I believe 08 I could be mistaken though. 2008 team was pretty tough had 5 guys place that year 3 in the finals. Placed 3rd as a team in the individual tournament.

Emmetsburg was still the power back when I was in high school. (99-02) I remember the first time going to that tournament and just being in awe of their trophy case for football and wrestling. It was quite impressive. Recently West Sioux and Srgnt Bluff have more accolades I would say but CL-GLR has been right with them just not enough to get over the hump. That being said there's a reason CL-GLRs mantra these days is "Home Grown".

Always been some tough wrestling in NW Iowa I think there is a lot of schools that probably feel pretty good about their history. This has been a fun thread to follow along with. Thanks to everyone who's contributed.

Disclaimer: I don't have George Little Rocks stats before they joined up with Central Lyon.

Nice summary of a nice run for CL-GLR the past 20 years. I like the “home grown” mantra as I know their dual with West Sioux this year wasn’t that close until you realize that 30+ of West Sioux’s points were from kids that were transfers. CL-GLR just has a bunch of tough kids that give great effort and let the chips fall where they may. Great coaching staff as well.
 
Nice summary of a nice run for CL-GLR the past 20 years. I like the “home grown” mantra as I know their dual with West Sioux this year wasn’t that close until you realize that 30+ of West Sioux’s points were from kids that were transfers. CL-GLR just has a bunch of tough kids that give great effort and let the chips fall where they may. Great coaching staff as well.
While there is a certain feel good sentiment about "home grown", what is the special-ness of this that makes it more important? Personally, I don't care if a kid transfers into West Sioux, because he feels he will have better partners and further his individual goals....What does he owe it to his homegrown team to develop them? I am all for kids from West Sioux going to LOG to develop and grouping together at WS...hell, Sebolt kids grouping at wherever......SW Iowa kids grouping at Underwood.....collectively, they are all looking to develop together and further their individual goals....I don't see where a Gable Porter owes it to Lewis Central kids to help them along....where Braden Graff owes it to SBL to develop them and help them out.... am I wrong?
 
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While there is a certain feel good sentiment about "home grown", what is the special-ness of this that makes it more important? Personally, I don't care if a kid transfers into West Sioux, because he feels he will have better partners and further his individual goals....What does he owe it to his homegrown team to develop them? I am all for kids from West Sioux going to LOG to develop and grouping together at WS...hell, Sebolt kids grouping at wherever......SW Iowa kids grouping at Underwood.....collectively, they are all looking to develop together and further their individual goals....I don't see where a Gable Porter owes it to Lewis Central kids to help them along....where Braden Graff owes it to SBL to develop them and help them out.... am I wrong?

No I don't think your wrong. "Transfers" are just a part of high school athletics these days. Frankly I don't really care. To each their own. If a kid is stuck at a school that's not very competitive and wants a better opportunity, I'm not going to judge them or their parents for seeking it.

You also have to recognize that there will always be strong contingent that will argue the other side of it. Their is a certain sentiment, like you said. When you watch kids grow up in town, develop them all way through, that coaches and I think the community takes pride in. Of course this is in small communities like were talking about in NW Iowa.

I'm all for club wrestling. The results have clearly proven it works. I'm just not a big fan of LOG. That's not a knock on the kids that go there, just not my cup of tea.
 
While there is a certain feel good sentiment about "home grown", what is the special-ness of this that makes it more important? Personally, I don't care if a kid transfers into West Sioux, because he feels he will have better partners and further his individual goals....What does he owe it to his homegrown team to develop them? I am all for kids from West Sioux going to LOG to develop and grouping together at WS...hell, Sebolt kids grouping at wherever......SW Iowa kids grouping at Underwood.....collectively, they are all looking to develop together and further their individual goals....I don't see where a Gable Porter owes it to Lewis Central kids to help them along....where Braden Graff owes it to SBL to develop them and help them out.... am I wrong?
I'm pretty sure Graff did not leave SBL because he was looking for better workout partners and I don't believe SBL needed Graff to "develop" them. Underwood has turned into Council Bluffs East and West Sioux takes "transferring" to another level. If a kid wants to transfer to better themselves then absolutely go for it, but recruiting (poaching) from other schools is BS.
 
I'm pretty sure Graff did not leave SBL because he was looking for better workout partners and I don't believe SBL needed Graff to "develop" them. Underwood has turned into Council Bluffs East and West Sioux takes "transferring" to another level. If a kid wants to transfer to better themselves then absolutely go for it, but recruiting (poaching) from other schools is BS.
Why?
 
I need to explain to you why poaching athletes from other schools to make yours better is BS??
smh

Some families travel an hour or two one way to go to a club practice. With this mindset, one shouldn’t be surprised that they put their kids in a school that’s maybe within 20 miles from their house or even move to be in a program that is stronger or has better training partners.
 
No I don't think your wrong. "Transfers" are just a part of high school athletics these days. Frankly I don't really care. To each their own. If a kid is stuck at a school that's not very competitive and wants a better opportunity, I'm not going to judge them or their parents for seeking it.

You also have to recognize that there will always be strong contingent that will argue the other side of it. Their is a certain sentiment, like you said. When you watch kids grow up in town, develop them all way through, that coaches and I think the community takes pride in. Of course this is in small communities like were talking about in NW Iowa.

I'm all for club wrestling. The results have clearly proven it works. I'm just not a big fan of LOG. That's not a knock on the kids that go there, just not my cup of tea.
Why do you say you are a fan of club wrestling but not a fan of LoG? I’ve known about LoG & actually contributed to their cause because I had friends kids wrestle there. Both got scholarships to D1 programs. I just always thought they were a club like any other. Is it because the founder is not From the Midwest? Im not totally familiar with the club scene, so curious why they are different from other clubs?
 
I always understood that their father, through the youth program, was responsible for the rise of that program. Cant speak to what kind of guy he was.

Bob Roethler was a very good coach during their 70s run. He had a bad stroke at a pretty young age and could no longer coach. Clint Young an Algona native took over and had some nice years and a couple titles in 82 and 85 but the population had started dropping and numbers fell some. After Clint hung it up after 93 they were ok but not really title contender level until Osage native Bob Kenny showed up in the late 90s and a talented tough group of kids combined with a talented hard nosed coach led to their most successful run. From 99 to 06 they had a run of 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st. Bob hung up the whistle after 06 and numbers went way down. They have managed a 2nd place in 2013, a state dual placing in 2019 since. Algona native Tyler Bjustrom took over in 2018 and has had some competitive teams better than any going back to 2006 with the exception of 2013. From 1975 to 2008 a lot of trophies got put in the case between Football and Wrestling.
 
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I need to explain to you why poaching athletes from other schools to make yours better is BS??
smh
Yeah, you do...... unless you are going with the "because I said so" approach, which means you have no logic going into it....only emotion

If you are passionate about that mindset, shouldn't be hard to explain
 
Yeah, you do...... unless you are going with the "because I said so" approach, which means you have no logic going into it....only emotion

If you are passionate about that mindset, shouldn't be hard to explain
Didnt that coach do the same thing at Akron? I dont care too much, but hopping school to school, poaching all the local kids developed elsewhere and then leaving the school without ever developing the program for the long-term isnt a good thing for wrestling.
 
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While there is a certain feel good sentiment about "home grown", what is the special-ness of this that makes it more important? Personally, I don't care if a kid transfers into West Sioux, because he feels he will have better partners and further his individual goals....What does he owe it to his homegrown team to develop them? I am all for kids from West Sioux going to LOG to develop and grouping together at WS...hell, Sebolt kids grouping at wherever......SW Iowa kids grouping at Underwood.....collectively, they are all looking to develop together and further their individual goals....I don't see where a Gable Porter owes it to Lewis Central kids to help them along....where Braden Graff owes it to SBL to develop them and help them out.... am I wrong?

I would always recommend if your program does not have partners or college style training to find a high school that does. That’s why I don’t mind the kids that left our school to fill out Don Bosco.
 
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I would always recommend if your program does not have partners or college style training to find a high school that does. That’s why I don’t mind the kids that left our school to fill out Don Bosco. Pussies.
Do kids that transfer to power programs do better in college? Josh Ihnen was on a bad team. Kyven Gadsen? I have yet to see a really talented kid transfer and get over the hump just because they transferred. Why is that?

Heck, a very talented Allard lost going for his 4th title. To? A junior from Cascade who was his teams only qualifier. If transfering is so valuable because of room depth, how does that happen?
 
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Do kids that transfer to power programs do better in college? Josh Ihnen was on a bad team. Kyven Gadsen? I have yet to see a really talented kid transfer and get over the hump just because they transferred. Why is that?

Heck, a very talented Allard lost going for his 4th title. To? A junior from Cascade who was his teams only qualifier. If transfering is so valuable because of room depth, how does that happen?

Ypu don’t make any sense to me. What if you didn’t have a full team and forfeited half your weights? My kid was one of two kids to qualify for state from Waterloo last year. It’s because he is a good wrestler, but could have been better at Waverly or Don Bosco. The coaching is great, it’s the numbers and people to roll with. Max Magayna is going to have to have college wrestlers come wrestle him this year because the room is small and he’ll beat the coaches. However, that might be wherever he wrestled.
 
Ypu don’t make any sense to me.

How? I typed it in plain english. What dont you understand? I provided examples.

but could have been better at Waverly or Don Bosco.
He couldnt work as hard at his current school? He doesnt know the things he has to do to get better? If you told me he did 100% everything to win a title, I wouldnt believe you as there are plenty of examples of kids from bad teams winning titles. I think the problem is people think transferring is a nice little short cut to success but its not. Your comments just sound like a convenient excuse.
 
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How? I typed it in plain english. What dont you understand? I provided examples.


He couldnt work as hard at his current school? He doesnt know the things he has to do to get better? If you told me he did 100% everything to win a title, I wouldnt believe you as there are plenty of examples of kids from bad teams winning titles. I think the problem is people think transferring is a nice little short cut to success but its not. Your comments just sound like a convenient excuse.

I am not being contentious on this issue but why would a guy like Spencer Lee and his family uproot their life to come to Iowa? Bo Nickal could have stayed close to home and went to Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. We have these discussions ad nauseum of why little guys want to come to Iowa. It might be many things but coaches and practice partners would have to be near the top, right? Look at our roster and many of these kids came from powerhouses or wrestled in a club that was a powerhouse.

I knew of two sets of brothers in Tucson who went from going to a rich school in the foothills of Tucson to doing a 45 minute one way commute down to a predominantly poor, hispanic school on the opposite side of town to wrestle because they liked the coach and it was a tough room. Wrestling was important there. Those brothers were the Larkins (ASU) and the Gallicks (ISU). That same school will have three guys on B1G rosters this year nearly 20 years later.

Speaking for myself, I went from a small school in Illinois to a huge school in Missouri. The Mizzou school was a powerhouse in wrestling among many other sports; I went from almost quitting the sport to being able to hang with some of the tougher guys in the state in one year. We didn't move there because of wrestling; my Dad transferred jobs. But my Dad did his research and that's where they decided to land.
 
I am not being contentious on this issue but why would a guy like Spencer Lee and his family uproot their life to come to Iowa? Bo Nickal could have stayed close to home and went to Oklahoma or Oklahoma State. We have these discussions ad nauseum of why little guys want to come to Iowa. It might be many things but coaches and practice partners would have to be near the top, right? Look at our roster and many of these kids came from powerhouses or wrestled in a club that was a powerhouse.

I knew of two sets of brothers in Tucson who went from going to a rich school in the foothills of Tucson to doing a 45 minute one way commute down to a predominantly poor, hispanic school on the opposite side of town to wrestle because they liked the coach and it was a tough room. Wrestling was important there. Those brothers were the Larkins (ASU) and the Gallicks (ISU). That same school will have three guys on B1G rosters this year nearly 20 years later.

Speaking for myself, I went from a small school in Illinois to a huge school in Missouri. The Mizzou school was a powerhouse in wrestling among many other sports; I went from almost quitting the sport to being able to hang with some of the tougher guys in the state in one year. We didn't move there because of wrestling; my Dad transferred jobs. But my Dad did his research and that's where they decided to land.
Well, would Gallicks or Larkins needed to make that trip? Did they need that to be successful. I love Spencer Lee, and believe Iowa coaching is awesome, but did he need to come here to be good?

Do I think it helps a super talent get better? Yeah its good for a kid to feel comfortable. Its good for a kid to have a good coach, but thats not what it is about in these high school transfers. I see kids transfer because they think its necessary to be a state champ. Look at Sans Souchi say his son would be so much better at a better one of these premier programs. My point is that you need to put in the work and it doesnt matter where you go. No coach or program will do it for you. Ive heard too many parents talk about transferring and what a coach can do for them yet, it rarely plays out like they had hoped. Transferring wont guarentee success, and it is very very possible to reach your potential at a school with a poor program... see what Im getting at?
 
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Well, would Gallicks or Larkins needed to make that trip? Did they need that to be successful. I love Spencer Lee, and believe Iowa coaching is awesome, but did he need to come here to be good?

Obviously, they felt like they did because they made that trip for four years. BTW, their tradition and family support in that district was also why Coach DeBerry (who they followed) moved from the posh north side to Sunnyside. He ended up moving there in 98 to be the head coach and won 14 straight state titles. He was named the best all time high school coach of any sport in Tucson history. Sunnyside was great before him but he went from getting them to win in state to doing well at national tourneys. He changed the scope down there and its why we have a RBY and Jesse Ybarra.

I think Spencer would have been NCAA champ good anywhere...but World and Olympic champ? At the top of his list of why he came here was Terry's proven track record. They fully committed and moved their whole family. Also keep in mind that Spencer was immediately in Desanto's ear when he decided to leave Drexel.

Hard work and dedication is great and is the ethos of an Iowa raised kid. While that might help you win a state title, many want to do bigger things. A good coach and partners that are also high level will get you there. Let's face it, times have changed and if you dominate in your room, then you best be looking for partners outside that room. For a NW Iowa kid, it gets tougher the further east you go. Some don't have a club in their backyard. So if parents want to stay and support their town's program and help build it into something, I'm all for it. But I also wouldn't blame them if they moved their kid to one of the aforementioned schools like a Waverly, West Sioux, SEP, Lisbon etc.
 
Obviously, they felt like they did because they made that trip for four years. BTW, their tradition and family support in that district was also why Coach DeBerry (who they followed) moved from the posh north side to Sunnyside. He ended up moving there in 98 to be the head coach and won 14 straight state titles. He was named the best all time high school coach of any sport in Tucson history. Sunnyside was great before him but he went from getting them to win in state to doing well at national tourneys. He changed the scope down there and its why we have a RBY and Jesse Ybarra.

I think Spencer would have been NCAA champ good anywhere...but World and Olympic champ? At the top of his list of why he came here was Terry's proven track record. They fully committed and moved their whole family. Also keep in mind that Spencer was immediately in Desanto's ear when he decided to leave Drexel.

Hard work and dedication is great and is the ethos of an Iowa raised kid. While that might help you win a state title, many want to do bigger things. A good coach and partners that are also high level will get you there. Let's face it, times have changed and if you dominate in your room, then you best be looking for partners outside that room. For a NW Iowa kid, it gets tougher the further east you go. Some don't have a club in their backyard. So if parents want to stay and support their town's program and help build it into something, I'm all for it. But I also wouldn't blame them if they moved their kid to one of the aforementioned schools like a Waverly, West Sioux, SEP, Lisbon etc.
Im not lost on the fact that there are some programs with terrible coaches or absolutely no one to wrestle with; especially in nwest Iowa. However that is a symptom of recruiting as much as it is a cause. One or two kids can have a huge affect on one program and those kids leaving can do a lot of damage.

I am not really against it in every situation. There is a ton of nuance in development from one wrestler to the other. My problem is when there is zero effort to create a better situation at home and then they run to have another coach make them a champion. That approach ussually does not work.

It may get tougher the further you go east, but guys like Wilke and Ihnen were most certainly killing everyone in the room, and had no problem when they got to the tourney. I dont believe having someone to beat you is necessary. You just have to train smarter. Its the information age and there is a ton of great info for kids no matter what kind of team they wrestle for.
 
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yes, Sheldon has had several good wrestlers....if you are asking if they have developed Olympic caliber wrestlers, then no. But they have has several good kids go through there. Where did they develop? Local youth club and several camps. There were no private club wrestling back then...now we have the Sebolts, Legends of Gold, Young Guns, etc.... Northwest Iowa has been spotty in regards to quality wrestling, it also depends on your geographical assumption....if you call Sioux City NW Iowa, then yes. Colton McCrystal comes to mind....I think you are about to see a large uptick in quality wrestling in NW Iowa...LEgends of Gold has had a strong influence in the West Sioux program and it shows...move a little east and Ironhawk has produced 7 collegiate wrestlers in the last 3 years...further east and that runs into Sebolt country. Understand I am just giving a generalization...Legends of Gold is based in SD and I believe, but don't quote me, produced something like 10 state champs in SD alone...could be more. Ironhawk has half the program out of Minnesota....hell, his kids alone could have won most of the duals for Fairmont/MCW (State Runners up)....and we all know about Sebolt... Now, I will say this, you aren't going to see a SE Polk, ICWest back in the day, or even a Lewis Central of the 90's-2000's...but you do get individuals who shine

In regards to Brands, its like these youth clubs....its the partners that matter.....they happen to be related to a damn good partner. They pushed each other.
 
Im torn on this topic. Clubs are great, yes, but sometimes they come at expense of grassroots, local team development. Take Sheldon for example. Josh Ihnen was a stud, traveled everywhere for practice, but there was little done to develop the rest of his local team whereas McCrystal came through and was part of a very solid team. He had a large influence on that team and he would probably credit his high school team and practices far more than he would ever credit some club team.

Ive seen far to many kids buy into this belief that all they need is a club and they get into high school with zero practice partners and have coaches that are focused on only one kids development. The result? Everyone falls short with Ihnen being the exception not the rule.

Im of the opinion that clubs should not be the be all, end all of talent development and in the end it is a poor strategy. Its better to practice with and develop other kids in your community who will be your future teamates and who you will practice with 5 months out of the year. Then you use clubs as a supplement to that. I think focus on clubs have come at the expense of wrestling in smaller communities.

The net effect hurts depth in Iowa and participation.
And now you've identified the problem with all sports in Iowa......... :D
 
If were talking wrestling schools in NW Iowa I think CL-GLR should get a mention. Of course this is just my bias opinion but some stats to follow it up.

Since 1979 they've only had 5 years without a state qualifier. I chose 79 because that was the first year 4 State Champs in that run Jordan Gacke and Nate Herda were both 2xers in 07 and 08. Tom Meester was a 3 time placer 7th 3rd and 2nd (from 99-01) who went on to be a 2x National Champ in D2 at Augie. Keith Van Beek was a state champ in 85 and had some battles with Tom and Terry. Keith beat Terry 3 or 4 times but didn't beat Tom I think. Mike Vander Woude was a state champ in 89. I dont know much about Mike other than he had an undefeated season that year. Plenty of other tough wrestlers that made the finals just couldn't finish the year with a win. Curt and Scott Eben both lost in the finals. Curt was a 2x placer 5th and 2nd. Scott was a 3x placer 5th 2nd 2nd. Tim and Nate Deboer. Tim lost in the finals his senior year and Nate was a 2x placer. Recently Dylan Winkle lost in the finals this year and Kolten Bus lost in the finals the year before.

No team titles to speak of. Couple teams have qualified 99 and I believe 08 I could be mistaken though. 2008 team was pretty tough had 5 guys place that year 3 in the finals. Placed 3rd as a team in the individual tournament.

Emmetsburg was still the power back when I was in high school. (99-02) I remember the first time going to that tournament and just being in awe of their trophy case for football and wrestling. It was quite impressive. Recently West Sioux and Srgnt Bluff have more accolades I would say but CL-GLR has been right with them just not enough to get over the hump. That being said there's a reason CL-GLRs mantra these days is "Home Grown".

Always been some tough wrestling in NW Iowa I think there is a lot of schools that probably feel pretty good about their history. This has been a fun thread to follow along with. Thanks to everyone who's contributed.

Disclaimer: I don't have George Little Rocks stats before they joined up with Central Lyon.

George had a Hildabrand sp? kid qualify for state one year and the coach asked if he could practice with me and Eric L to get ready. The poor kid hardly scored on either of us.
 
Jeff Schwartz is in the record book for the fastest fall in the state finals at ten seconds. Interestingly, he has another fall at 12 seconds in the semifinals that same year. Thats insane.

In 2012, I believe, there was a HWT from Harrisonville, MO that wrestled a total of 51 seconds enroute to the State finals. He was undefeated and unscored on all season...until our 285 pinned him for a State title. We were up 2-1 when it happened.

 
What was Galen Nelson's background? Did he wrestle in college? I'll bet the roster number was 40 when the Brands wrestled.
I wonder if Morgan was related to the Morgan's from Eagle Grove. There was a Dave Morgan who was a state champ from EG in the mid seventies at 105.


Not related I don't think. Almost all Morgan's in that clan were from in and around Eagle Grove. Dave coached at Eagle after Marv Reiland and up until his son Curt finished HS. Curt coached Clarion a few years back when they were pretty solid.

Whole group of Morgan's in that area. All amazing people in my opinion. Matter of fact, my daughters middle name is Morgan after another side of their family. They had a profound impact on me growing up.
 
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