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The Catholic church seems to be on the verge of imploding

shank hawk said:
as the entire 31-member delegation of bishops from Chile submitted their resignation to Pope Francis over child sex abuse accusations. Are they being set up to take the fall for their higher ups?

Hmmm, it seems that it was just last fall that Francis was charging the Chilean victims with 'calumny and slander.' What a mess. :oops:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/vati...s-offer-resignations-after-meeting-pope-abuse
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How can you deprive humans of basic natural needs and expect them to behave normally? It is obvious it doesn't work, since the most sanctimonious commitments by the most committed persons with the deepest vows can't deal with it. Drop the façade, let the priests marry women and not the "church". This isn't the 7th century. I don't care about the Catholicism, but my advice would be; grow up! Embrace women's rights.
 
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Nowhere in the New Testament is there a prohibition
for pastors to be married. 1Timothy chapter 3 talks
about the pastor being the husband of one wife and
being able to manage his family and children properly.
It says that if the pastor cannot manage his own family
then how can he take care of God's church.
 
LuteHawk said:
Nowhere in the New Testament is there a prohibition
for pastors to be married. 1Timothy chapter 3 talks
about the pastor being the husband of one wife and
being able to manage his family and children properly.
It says that if the pastor cannot manage his own family
then how can he take care of God's church.
Click to expand...

So it's a Catholic doctrine not based on scripture. It's easy then. Voice vote in the Vatican.
 
ft254 said:
How can you deprive humans of basic natural needs and expect them to behave normally? It is obvious it doesn't work, since the most sanctimonious commitments by the most committed persons with the deepest vows can't deal with it. Drop the façade, let the priests marry women and not the "church". This isn't the 7th century. I don't care about the Catholicism, but my advice would be; grow up! Embrace women's rights.
Click to expand...

There's a lot wrong with this post.

First, sex isn't a "need." It's not like oxygen or water. Humans won't die without it. We live in a sexually crazed culture that perpetuates the myth that people will go crazy without sex. It's simply not true and it's proven daily by thousands of people.

https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2014/07/07/is-abstinence-unhealthy

Second, there isn't a link between celibacy and pedophilia or sexual abuse. The vast majority of pedophiles are married or partnered.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ut-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

Third, Catholic priests are less likely to be pedophiles than the average man on the street. And they are less likely to abuse children than Protestant clergy are, most of whom are married.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/protestant-sex-abuse-boz-tchividijian_n_4019347.html

Fourth, Catholic Priests are among the happiest group of people on the planet. They have a much higher life satisfaction rate than do doctors and lawyers, most of whom are married.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/egee45hfif/clergy/#5608bc18a24a

I hope you will read these links with an open mind. There are a LOT of myths going around our culture on this subject.
 
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LuteHawk said:
Nowhere in the New Testament is there a prohibition
for pastors to be married. 1Timothy chapter 3 talks
about the pastor being the husband of one wife and
being able to manage his family and children properly.
It says that if the pastor cannot manage his own family
then how can he take care of God's church.
Click to expand...

Jesus was celibate and recommended it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19:11,Matthew+19:12&version=NKJV

Saint Paul was celibate and recommended it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+7&version=CEB

So were countless Saints.

Bottom line: You need to re-read your New Testament, Lute.
 
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The Apostle Peter who is supposedly the first pope,
had a mother-in-law who was healed of a fever by
Jesus.(Mark 1:29-31)

Roman Catholic priests were allowed to be married
until 1075 A.D. In that year Pope Gregory VII declared
all Catholic priests divorced and then declared marriage
illegal for priests.

Bottom Line: First 1000 years the Roman Catholic
Church follows the New Testament and allows priests
to be married. Second 1000 years the Roman Catholic
Church goes against Scripture and forbids priests to
marry.
 
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BrianNole09 said:
There's a lot wrong with this post.

First, sex isn't a "need." It's not like oxygen or water. Humans won't die without it. We live in a sexually crazed culture that perpetuates the myth that people will go crazy without sex. It's simply not true and it's proven daily by thousands of people.

https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2014/07/07/is-abstinence-unhealthy

Second, there isn't a link between celibacy and pedophilia or sexual abuse. The vast majority of pedophiles are married or partnered.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ut-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

Third, Catholic priests are less likely to be pedophiles than the average man on the street. And they are less likely to abuse children than Protestant clergy are, most of whom are married.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/protestant-sex-abuse-boz-tchividijian_n_4019347.html

Fourth, Catholic Priests are among the happiest group of people on the planet. They have a much higher life satisfaction rate than do doctors and lawyers, most of whom are married.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/egee45hfif/clergy/#5608bc18a24a

I hope you will read these links with an open mind. There are a LOT of myths going around our culture on this subject.
Click to expand...
I thought I was full of @#$T when I posted it in another thread, but now I'm starting to believe it. Your calling is to be a priest. In two posts you manage to find both "biblegateway" and "Huffpo" articles to support your view. That's versatility right there, the kind it takes to appeal to a wide range of people from all backgrounds and various places on the spiritual spectrum.

just sayin'
 
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thewop said:
I thought I was full of @#$T when I posted it in another thread, but now I'm starting to believe it. Your calling is to be a priest. In two posts you manage to find both "biblegateway" and "Huffpo" articles to support your view. That's versatility right there, the kind it takes to appeal to a wide range of people from all backgrounds and various places on the spiritual spectrum.

just sayin'
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Thanks, but I don't think so.

That being said, I do feel responsible for defending Priests because they are hated and ridiculed by many people in our post-Christian country...

I know a few Priests that are great people...
 
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BrianNole09 said:
Thanks, but I don't think so.

That being said, I do feel responsible for defending Priests because they are hated and ridiculed by many people in our post-Christian country...

I know a few Priests that are great people...
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I don't hate all priests.

I hate the Catholic Church that tried to cover up the scum priests. Big difference.
 
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srams21 said:
I don't hate all priests.

I hate the Catholic Church that tried to cover up the scum priests. Big difference.
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This reminds me, I had a buddy in college who was backpacking in Europe, and some Germans started teasing him about Bill Clinton. They told him "he's your leader, you have to like Bill Clinton," and not one to back down from a challenge, he came back, naturally, with...'well what about Hitler? You like him don't you? He was your leader!'

I wasn't there, but I'm told he failed to make new friends from Germany that day.
 
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BrianNole09 said:
Exactly.

We should all try to follow His teachings as best as we can.
Click to expand...

Right, but denying the evolutionary (and God given) need to procreate isn't something most people can deny. Certainly not enough to meet the demands of an entire Church (as an organization, not a single building).
 
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BioHawk said:
Right, but denying the evolutionary (and God given) need to procreate isn't something most people can deny. Certainly not enough to meet the demands of an entire Church (as an organization, not a single building).
Click to expand...

It's not a "need", though, as I've already shown.

It's simply an urge, among many others.

Buddhist monks are celibate, too, as are hundreds of thousands of other people. They are doing fine.
 
BrianNole09 said:
It's not a "need", though, as I've already shown.

It's simply an urge, among many others.

Buddhist monks are celibate, too, as are hundreds of thousands of other people. They are doing fine.
Click to expand...

It's a biological urge hardwired into our being.

Look, I think there is more than enough evidence to show that there just aren't enough people who want to be celibate to run a church. If you get rid of that requirement, though, it will probably become much easier to find quality people who want to do it.
 
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srams21 said:
Not true.

I can hate a corporation but not hate everyone who works for it. Take Wells Fargo for example.
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Some of the employee's if you want to call them that covered up for pedophile priests. It is only recently that information has come to light to the highest levels of the church.

Lets also remember that the time this was happening this sort of thing was hardly just done by the church. I'm sure a lot of teachers where covered for by schools and principles.

But it's easier to hate on a religion then admit the fact that their response was sadly typical for their time.
 
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Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll said:
Did I just read "humans wouldnt die if they didnt have sex"? (Ie. Breed?) Holy $hit Brian you need the birds and the bees bud.
Click to expand...

He's saying the individual does not die without sex. He's not claiming that we don't need it to reproduce and replace people who die due to age.

Lack of sex does not cause an individual human being to die.
 
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BioHawk said:
It's a biological urge hardwired into our being.

Look, I think there is more than enough evidence to show that there just aren't enough people who want to be celibate to run a church. If you get rid of that requirement, though, it will probably become much easier to find quality people who want to do it.
Click to expand...

That's just not factually accurate.

There are hundreds of thousands of celibate Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns running the Catholic Church, plus thousands of Buddhist monks as well running their own organizations.

The Churches that are in decline are the mainline Protestant Churches and they have nothing to do with celibacy.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/14/15959682/evangelical-mainline-voting-patterns-trump
 
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BrianNole09 said:
That's just not factually accurate.

There are hundreds of thousands of celibate Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns running the Catholic Church, plus thousands of Buddhist monks as well running their own organizations.

The Churches that are in decline are the mainline Protestant Churches and they have nothing to do with celibacy.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/14/15959682/evangelical-mainline-voting-patterns-trump
Click to expand...

Well then maybe the Catholic Church needs to ask the Buddhist to become their priests.
 
Hoosierhawkeye said:
Some of the employee's if you want to call them that covered up for pedophile priests. It is only recently that information has come to light to the highest levels of the church.

Lets also remember that the time this was happening this sort of thing was hardly just done by the church. I'm sure a lot of teachers where covered for by schools and principles.

But it's easier to hate on a religion then admit the fact that their response was sadly typical for their time.
Click to expand...
Sounds like someone doesn't want to be held accountable.
 
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thewop said:
This reminds me, I had a buddy in college who was backpacking in Europe, and some Germans started teasing him about Bill Clinton. They told him "he's your leader, you have to like Bill Clinton," and not one to back down from a challenge, he came back, naturally, with...'well what about Hitler? You like him don't you? He was your leader!'

I wasn't there, but I'm told he failed to make new friends from Germany that day.
Click to expand...
I'm not backpacking with Catholics. What's your point?
 
fivecardstud14 said:
Anyone who signs up for a job with a stipulation of not having sex is a strange person. I have no link for that, but I stand by it.
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Fair enough, that's your view, but a LOT of it is cultural.

For example, if I were to say "any man who wants to marry a man is a strange person", I would have been almost completely accepted 50 years ago.

Now, if I were to say that, I'd be called a bigot.

Times have drastically changed.
 
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BrianNole09 said:
Fair enough, that's your view, but a LOT of it is cultural.

For example, if I were to say "any man who wants to marry a man is a strange person", I would have been almost completely accepted 50 years ago.

Now, if I were to say that, I'd be called a bigot.

Times have drastically changed.
Click to expand...
t

That's true, times change. Humans wanting to bone each other, however, will never change.
 
Most Roman Catholic parishes have over 1000
members in our cities and suburbs. It is obvious
that there are many families in a Roman Catholic
congregation and they do not have the luxury
of a spiritual leader who has first hand experience
as a husband and a father in a marriage. This
is something that could be changed by a pope.
Since 1075 A.D.Roman Catholics have suffered
for this lack of married clergy.

In our suburb I know Roman Catholics who asked
a married Deacon to perform their wedding ceremony.
 
LuteHawk said:
Most Roman Catholic parishes have over 1000
members in our cities and suburbs. It is obvious
that there are many families in a Roman Catholic
congregation and they do not have the luxury
of a spiritual leader who has first hand experience
as a husband and a father in a marriage. This
is something that could be changed by a pope.
Since 1075 A.D.Roman Catholics have suffered
for this lack of married clergy.

In our suburb I know Roman Catholics who asked
a married Deacon to perform their wedding ceremony.
Click to expand...

Lute,

Most brain surgeons haven't had brain surgery performed on themselves. Most oncologists haven't had cancer themselves. I guess that means only a person that's experienced something first-hand has any knowledge of it, using your logic?

Bottom line: Someone doesn't have to personally experience something to be an expert or to advise others.
 
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Brian, the Roman Catholics that I know are highly
vocal about the need for married priests. Family
life is important to them and they do not go to
their priest for family counseling.

Bottom Line: There is more to parish life than the
public worship service. Families who are hurting
need help from their spiritual leaders..
 
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LuteHawk said:
Brian, the Roman Catholics that I know are highly
vocal about the need for married priests. Family
life is important to them and they do not go to
their priest for family counseling.

Bottom Line: There is more to parish life than the
public worship service. Families who are hurting
need help from their spiritual leaders..
Click to expand...

Lute,

Explain to them that Jesus was not married and the Priests are trying to be like Jesus.

Bottom line: your friends don't understand their faith.
 
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Brianole, what is the largest internet money maker and it dwarfs everything else. Porn. The Catholic notion that all people aren’t sexual people is antiquated garbage that defies reality. I come from a Catholic family and it has been both hysterical and pathetic to watch my relatives defend celibacy and women not being allowed to be priests.
 
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