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The Culture of Mark Dantonio's football program? Case after case w/ No charges being filed

Franisdaman

HB King
Nov 3, 2012
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Please read this post. This is just a 6 year snap shot of what was (and is?) going on at Michigan State. It's scary stuff. What follows comes from http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id...on-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

As part of a 2014 reporting effort spanning 10 universities, ESPN requested copies of all police reports involving football and basketball players from campus and local police departments over six seasons. In Michigan State's case, the university supplied the reports but marked out the players' names -- something East Lansing police did not do. ESPN ultimately sued MSU for the release of material, and Michigan courts ruled that the school had violated the state's open records laws, awarded ESPN the unredacted records, and told MSU to pay ESPN's attorneys' fees. When ESPN submitted a subsequent records request last year, MSU took the unusual step of proactively suing ESPN to defend its withholding of the documents. A judge, in dismissing the lawsuit, wrote that a public body filing suit against a requestor could create a "chilling effect" and dissuade people from requesting records in the first place.

The reports that involve the football team:

  • On Aug. 31, 2009, campus police responded to a domestic dispute involving a junior offensive tackle and his girlfriend in which each accused the other of destructive and violent behavior. The woman admitted to police vandalizing some of his belongings, and he admitted to trying to drag her out of her car, during which she said he removed her left shoe and began to bend her foot down "like he was trying to break it." Both declined to pursue charges.
  • On Dec. 18, 2009, a woman told campus police that her boyfriend, a freshman defensive lineman, shoved her up against the wall of an elevator, pushed her to the ground, kicked her in the torso and punched her in the collarbone and under her left eye after she smacked him in the face. The football player told police he had been trying to restrain her while she tried to hit him, and he never kicked or struck her. Prosecutors dropped the case after the woman declined to press charges.
  • On Jan. 17, 2010, a woman told campus police that a freshman wide receiver and another football player had raped her in November 2009, prompting her to start drinking excessively and become suicidal. She said she went to the players' dorm room after a fraternity party, and the players took off her clothes and began kissing her, to which she consented. They asked her to perform oral sex on them, but she refused. She told police that when she decided to leave and bent over to put her pants on, she was raped. The players said the sex was consensual and that they took her home as soon she said she wanted to leave. Court records show no charges were filed.
  • On Aug. 31, 2013, a woman told campus police that a freshman running back grabbed her with both hands around her arms and slammed her up against a wall after she asked him to say "please" when he told her to take her feet off a chair in his dorm room. The woman had a scrape on her left elbow and on the upper side of her left buttock. The football player told police he had pushed her but never grabbed or threw her up against a wall. The woman told police she only wanted him to apologize, which he did in an officer's presence, and no charges were filed.
  • On Oct. 29, 2013, a woman told campus police that she became extremely intoxicated at a party the night before, came back to her dorm room and passed out on her bed. The report states, "the next time she woke up, she was having her pants and legs tugged on by" a freshman football player. She said he "inserted his penis into her vagina" and "would stop and sometimes insert his penis into her mouth then return to vaginal intercourse," to which she said she did not consent. The player told police, "at no time did [the woman] tell him to stop." The woman texted him the next morning expressing regret, he told police. The woman told campus police that she did not want to seek criminal prosecution but did want to report the incident to Michigan State judicial services. No criminal charges were filed.
  • In May 2014, the parents of a deceased Michigan State student filed a report with campus police after they found a notebook from one of their daughter's therapy sessions. The writings detailed a 2007 gang rape that named four football players. Detectives started what would become a monthslong investigation involving multiple records, analysis and interviews. In June 2015, campus police sent its report to the Ingham County prosecutor's office, which declined to file charges against any of the players, noting that the woman's writings could not be used as evidence and investigators were unable to independently corroborate her claims.
It's unknown whether campus police or any university administrator ever notified Dantonio about the incidents, or if they did, whether the coach ever disciplined any of the players.

University policy required campus police officers to file a complaint with student judicial affairs, even if the person reporting a sexual assault does not want to do so. It is unclear if that happened in each of these cases. Outside the Lines could not contact any of the women who made the reports because campus police redacted their names from police reports, citing privacy concerns.
 
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Dantonio steadfastly maintains that he has cooperated with every investigation. He probably did - it appears that every investigation (whether EL police, campus police, MSU administration) was initiated with the intent to protect, exonerate, or otherwise shield the accused athlete(s).
 
He's slime, and so is the entire athletics program at Michigan State. They were far more interested in protecting their precious athletes than seeking justice and comfort for the victims.
Then that is more a problem with the prosecutors/investigators. How the university handles students with or without any charges is a different matter
 
Dantonio steadfastly maintains that he has cooperated with every investigation. He probably did - it appears that every investigation (whether EL police, campus police, MSU administration) was initiated with the intent to protect, exonerate, or otherwise shield the accused athlete(s).
This goes way beyond Dantonio. Considering the number of cases involving the basketball team as well, and what we now know about Nasser, this is obviously a systematic problem at MSU. Burn it down and start over.
 
This continues to get more vile and disgusting by the day. What a flipping joke.
The really bad part is that much of this goes back almost a decade, (and beyond if you include the Nasser stuff). The piles that have been swept under the rug, have to be getting pretty big by now.
 
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Seems like almost the polar opposite of ICPD when it comes to U of I athletes.

Yep. Back when other schools were here trash talking on Iowa being in that list of top 10 programs with the most arrests, there were were really two things that led to Iowa being on that list. The first was that the vast majority of the arrests were for minor infractions. The second was that Iowa City PD seems to go after big name athletes with a zero tolerance policy....even more so than the general student body it seems. The minor infractions that would be brushed under the rug at most big time football colleges were pursued aggressively in IC. Heck, at many schools, the major infractions are brushed under the rug. In the B10, Nebraska has that reputation, and MSU as well.

Of course it's going to make you look bad when the police at one school go after a public intox of a FB player more aggressively than another school goes after rape or assault.

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with police telling an athlete (or any student for that matter) that is drunk in public that they can go home if they can calm down and get themselves home without trouble (The Who's "Who Are You": "You can sleep at home tonight if you can get up and walk away...". It's a whole other matter when there's a rape or assault involved. Covering that up is a most heinous crime IMO.
 
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Yep. Back when other schools were here trash talking on Iowa being in that list of top 10 programs with the most arrests, there were were really two things that led to Iowa being on that list. The first was that the vast majority of the arrests were for minor infractions. The second was that Iowa City PD seems to go after big name athletes with a zero tolerance policy....even more so than the general student body it seems. The minor infractions that would be brushed under the rug at most big time football colleges were pursued aggressively in IC. Heck, at many schools, the major infractions are brushed under the rug. In the B10, Nebraska has that reputation, and MSU as well.

Of course it's going to make you look bad when the police at one school go after a public intox of a FB player more aggressively than another school goes after rape or assault.

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with police telling an athlete (or any student for that matter) that is drunk in public that they can go home if they can calm down and get themselves home without trouble (The Who's "Who Are You": "You can sleep at home tonight if you can get up and walk away...". It's a whole other matter when there's a rape or assault involved. Covering that up is a most heinous crime IMO.
I'd agree as long as there not driving, I could see releasing them to the coaches or parents, and letting them dole out some discipline. Drinking on college campus is so ingrained its ridiculous to be over the top with these charges. Again as long as they are not a threat to do harm to them selves or someone else.
 
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If I recall correctly, one of the first things Iowa's President Bruce Harreld did upon arrving in Iowa City was address the football team. He told them sexual assualt was a big problem on campuses and he needed their help to make sure it wasn't a problem on U of I campus. Cudos to him.
 
Yep. Back when other schools were here trash talking on Iowa being in that list of top 10 programs with the most arrests, there were were really two things that led to Iowa being on that list. The first was that the vast majority of the arrests were for minor infractions. The second was that Iowa City PD seems to go after big name athletes with a zero tolerance policy....even more so than the general student body it seems. The minor infractions that would be brushed under the rug at most big time football colleges were pursued aggressively in IC. Heck, at many schools, the major infractions are brushed under the rug. In the B10, Nebraska has that reputation, and MSU as well.

Of course it's going to make you look bad when the police at one school go after a public intox of a FB player more aggressively than another school goes after rape or assault.

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with police telling an athlete (or any student for that matter) that is drunk in public that they can go home if they can calm down and get themselves home without trouble (The Who's "Who Are You": "You can sleep at home tonight if you can get up and walk away...". It's a whole other matter when there's a rape or assault involved. Covering that up is a most heinous crime IMO.

To your last paragraph. Telling people drunk in public to just go home sounds good until that person decides to go ahead and drive once the officer leaves, or does something to themselves or others while walking home. Then the outcry would be that the police should have arrested the drunk.

To the cases at Michigan State, it could be that the legal system was rigged so that players were protected. I have no idea. But in reading each of those incidents, all of them were either the victim was extremely intoxicated, didn't want to press charges or it was completely a case of he said, she said. In all those instances, it's very hard for prosecutors to make the case. As we saw in the Satterfield/Everson case here at Iowa, the victim couldn't remember events of the incident, so it becomes very difficult to secure a conviction. Note: I am not condoning the male behavior in these instances. Guys that do this are pigs. But it becomes very difficult to make a legal case.

But for Dantonio to proclaim last summer that it was the first time they've deal with that situation at MSU is just dissembling and outright lying.
 
It's also a broader problem in the culture of the powerful, as explaimed here in a very good article by an Ohio State writer. Think also of the revelations about Harvey Weinstein, about what our president said, on tape, about the dozens of other corporations which have covered up and enabled sexual harassment, of (as mentioned by Steve Deace in his and Jon Miller's Bigger Ten podcast) churches that have covered for clergy. It's profits and power before people. It's consistent. It's disgusting.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/coll...-girls-MSU-would-have-stopped-him-immediately
 
They played a kid less than a week after getting out of prison against the Hawks in 2010. The reasoing was laughable. Long ago for those that recently have salivated over Dantonio and his record, but those longer in the tooth...we remember and their recent success has been nauseating.
 
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My biggest complaint would be the authorities who were actually alerted to these things and investigated, but were either too dumb to do their job correctly or worse complicit in it because they did a poor job investigating so there wouldn’t be anyone to charge.
 
Even if the authorities didn't press charges, there is no question there was still wrongdoing.

Did Dantonio or Izzo take *any* action against the players involved? Certainly they still should have been booted from the program, at least more than running laps and having to call mom!

Guilt less than beyond a reasonable doubt is still a long way from innocent!
 
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To your last paragraph. Telling people drunk in public to just go home sounds good until that person decides to go ahead and drive once the officer leaves, or does something to themselves or others while walking home. Then the outcry would be that the police should have arrested the drunk.

To the cases at Michigan State, it could be that the legal system was rigged so that players were protected. I have no idea. But in reading each of those incidents, all of them were either the victim was extremely intoxicated, didn't want to press charges or it was completely a case of he said, she said. In all those instances, it's very hard for prosecutors to make the case. As we saw in the Satterfield/Everson case here at Iowa, the victim couldn't remember events of the incident, so it becomes very difficult to secure a conviction. Note: I am not condoning the male behavior in these instances. Guys that do this are pigs. But it becomes very difficult to make a legal case.

But for Dantonio to proclaim last summer that it was the first time they've deal with that situation at MSU is just dissembling and outright lying.

I agree with you on most of this. I read that ESPN piece and, while it cumulatively sounds bad, if you look at each of those incidents case by case I can see why charges were not brought. I must also note that it was always the PD and prosecutors that didn't pursue charges because there wasn't enough evidence to go on.

The part I disagree about is the public intox stuff. I still believe that PD should protect & SERVE. If a person is drunk and having a bad night don't take them to jail, take them home. If that person becomes a habitual issue, and cops know and remember repeat incidents, then take them to jail. We're such a litigious society these days, where is the compassion?
 
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Yep. Back when other schools were here trash talking on Iowa being in that list of top 10 programs with the most arrests, there were were really two things that led to Iowa being on that list. The first was that the vast majority of the arrests were for minor infractions. The second was that Iowa City PD seems to go after big name athletes with a zero tolerance policy....even more so than the general student body it seems. The minor infractions that would be brushed under the rug at most big time football colleges were pursued aggressively in IC. Heck, at many schools, the major infractions are brushed under the rug. In the B10, Nebraska has that reputation, and MSU as well.

Of course it's going to make you look bad when the police at one school go after a public intox of a FB player more aggressively than another school goes after rape or assault.

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with police telling an athlete (or any student for that matter) that is drunk in public that they can go home if they can calm down and get themselves home without trouble (The Who's "Who Are You": "You can sleep at home tonight if you can get up and walk away...". It's a whole other matter when there's a rape or assault involved. Covering that up is a most heinous crime IMO.

ICPD doesn't go out of its way to zero in on Iowa athletes only difference than most college towns is they treat our football players and athletes just like any other college kid and arrest them when they do stupid stuff when they are drunk. Which knock on wood minus Snyder Iowa football hasn't had too many last few years while I'm sure plenty of drunk kids keep getting public intox charges at the Ped Mall late at night.. The days of ICPD calling Hayden or Gable who had someone get them and punish them internally are long gone in Iowa City.

I agree Iowa had lot of minor infractions like Public Intox which got over played with most arrest in that report back in the day and looks like nothing now compared to crap going on at MSU or Baylor.
 
I agree with you on most of this. I read that ESPN piece and, while it cumulatively sounds bad, if you look at each of those incidents case by case I can see why charges were not brought. I must also note that it was always the PD and prosecutors that didn't pursue charges because there wasn't enough evidence to go on.

The part I disagree about is the public intox stuff. I still believe that PD should protect & SERVE. If a person is drunk and having a bad night don't take them to jail, take them home. If that person becomes a habitual issue, and cops know and remember repeat incidents, then take them to jail. We're such a litigious society these days, where is the compassion?

I think why Police don't take them home and to jail comes down to one huge factor, liability. Just takes one kid who got a public intox citation driven home by police to then jump in a car to drive back to the bars or house party to get into an accident or go back out drinking and pick up a girl and commits a sexual assault etc. That would be an epic PR disaster for the PD. However when I was 19 and got one I wished they would have done the same and just let me go home instead of spending 6-7 hours in jail but I get why they do it now.
 
ICPD doesn't go out of its way to zero in on Iowa athletes only difference than most college towns is they treat our football players and athletes just like any other college kid and arrest them when they do stupid stuff when they are drunk. Which knock on wood minus Snyder Iowa football hasn't had too many last few years while I'm sure plenty of drunk kids keep getting public intox charges at the Ped Mall late at night.. The days of ICPD calling Hayden or Gable who had someone get them and punish them internally are long gone in Iowa City.

I agree Iowa had lot of minor infractions like Public Intox which got over played with most arrest in that report back in the day and looks like nothing now compared to crap going on at MSU or Baylor.

I didn't mean that they specifically target them, just that they seem to take delight in catching them and, it seems, never cut them any slack. I know of several people who've had run-ins with the law and were let go with a warning. Big name athletes....not so much.
 
Dantonio steadfastly maintains that he has cooperated with every investigation. He probably did - it appears that every investigation (whether EL police, campus police, MSU administration) was initiated with the intent to protect, exonerate, or otherwise shield the accused athlete(s).

Question to you and everyone:

Look at the last paragraph of the orig post, which of course is this:

University policy required campus police officers to file a complaint with student judicial affairs, even if the person reporting a sexual assault does not want to do so. It is unclear if that happened in each of these cases. Outside the Lines could not contact any of the women who made the reports because campus police redacted their names from police reports, citing privacy concerns.

I am interpreting that to mean that the MSU Title IX office must be notified with every rape charge. Would I be correct?

Remember the Title IX investigation of the rape train by the Minny football players that eventually led to Tracey Claeys firing?

Remember the THREE Title IX investigations of Reggie Lynch, the Minny basketball player? 3 different women accused him of rape. The 1st investigation exonerated him. The last 2 investigations? One recommended banning him until 2020. The other recommended his expulsion from the university. He has appealed. He is currently suspended but can practice w/ the team.

There appears to be total and complete failure from the top down at Michigan State University.
 
Then that is more a problem with the prosecutors/investigators. How the university handles students with or without any charges is a different matter
which is why i wonder if any Title IX investigations were done. If not, MSU, Dantonio and Izzo could be in very big trouble.

what happens if Dantonio and Izzo say "there were police investigations and I followed the instructions from the university on how to move forward."
 
This goes way beyond Dantonio. Considering the number of cases involving the basketball team as well, and what we now know about Nasser, this is obviously a systematic problem at MSU. Burn it down and start over.

Completely agree.

A girl in 1997 reported to the Michigan State gymnastics coach that Nassar, a doctor and MSU employee, touched her inappropriately when he was supposed to be treating her injury. That MSU coach did nothing. 17 years later MSU FINALLY opened a Title IX investigation. 17 years!!!

In MSU basketball, an asst coach and 2 players were alleged to have raped a girl. There was no Title IX investigation; nothing was reported to the police. the AD investigated it himself, he had Izzo talk to the team, and there were no consequences to the players or coach.

I wonder what else is to come?

God I hope Iowa has strict procedures in place so this NEVER happens there.
 
To your last paragraph. Telling people drunk in public to just go home sounds good until that person decides to go ahead and drive once the officer leaves, or does something to themselves or others while walking home. Then the outcry would be that the police should have arrested the drunk.

To the cases at Michigan State, it could be that the legal system was rigged so that players were protected. I have no idea. But in reading each of those incidents, all of them were either the victim was extremely intoxicated, didn't want to press charges or it was completely a case of he said, she said. In all those instances, it's very hard for prosecutors to make the case. As we saw in the Satterfield/Everson case here at Iowa, the victim couldn't remember events of the incident, so it becomes very difficult to secure a conviction. Note: I am not condoning the male behavior in these instances. Guys that do this are pigs. But it becomes very difficult to make a legal case.

But for Dantonio to proclaim last summer that it was the first time they've deal with that situation at MSU is just dissembling and outright lying.

2 points:

1. I agree completely with your last paragraph. How stupid can Dantanio be? He was caught in a lie, there is video evidence and ESPN literally called him out on the lies.

2. Am I correct that every rape allegation is supposed to be reported to the Title IX office, per Federal law? Were any of these rape cases listed about investigated by the MSU Title IX office? If so, why did we never hear about them in the news? Because they were not investigated and it was all swept under the rug?

Man, Penn State was bad but MSU is pretty bad, too. And Minnesota is not much better with what has gone on there in the last few years.
 
which is why i wonder if any Title IX investigations were done. If not, MSU, Dantonio and Izzo could be in very big trouble.

what happens if Dantonio and Izzo say "there were police investigations and I followed the instructions from the university on how to move forward."


That is what Paterno said. The problem is the instructions might be wrong. MSU did not follow the instructions with Nassar. MSU did not even notify the police when a student told them she was sexually assaulted by Walton.
 
2 points:

1. I agree completely with your last paragraph. How stupid can Dantanio be? He was caught in a lie, there is video evidence and ESPN literally called him out on the lies.

2. Am I correct that every rape allegation is supposed to be reported to the Title IX office, per Federal law? Were any of these rape cases listed about investigated by the MSU Title IX office? If so, why did we never hear about them in the news? Because they were not investigated and it was all swept under the rug?

Man, Penn State was bad but MSU is pretty bad, too. And Minnesota is not much better with what has gone on there in the last few years.

The only thing I will say about Minnesota is that, yes, there have been incidents, but the University is handling those incidents, that's how you know about them. They have been very public and there has been consequences to their athletes who, while what they did may not have been criminal in some of the cases, still resulted in punishment from the school. At least they are responding to the incidents and not sweeping them away.
 
That is what Paterno said. The problem is the instructions might be wrong. MSU did not follow the instructions with Nassar. MSU did not even notify the police when a student told them she was sexually assaulted by Walton.
The training might be wrong or nonexistent, too. I have a feeling there a many many problems that need to be fixed at MSU.

Anytime a coach, counselor or AD gets a complaint of harassment or assault, things have to happen (get reported, documented) and it appears way too many times nothing did.

Can you believe that a girl and her parents reported a gang rape by 2 MSU players and an MSU asst coach and somehow it stayed within the athletic dept and it got investigated by the AD?? How does Izzo survive that?
 
The BT should pay KF to give lessons to all other BT schools on how to run a sparkling clean program and still win at the highest levels. When you take into account the clean program metric we have the best “overall” program in the BT.
 
The BT should pay KF to give lessons to all other BT schools on how to run a sparkling clean program and still win at the highest levels. When you take into account the clean program metric we have the best “overall” program in the BT.

Go away. UNL needs you.
 
A few years ago Michigan States starting safety got a DUI on a Thursday. Dantonio's punishment for the safety was sitting out the first series vs Iowa 2 days later.
 
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If I recall correctly, didn't some MSU football players go over to the frat house of a bunch of hockey players and pound the tar out of them? Not sure, but I believe that was pretty crazy as well.
 
I think why Police don't take them home and to jail comes down to one huge factor, liability. Just takes one kid who got a public intox citation driven home by police to then jump in a car to drive back to the bars or house party to get into an accident or go back out drinking and pick up a girl and commits a sexual assault etc. That would be an epic PR disaster for the PD. However when I was 19 and got one I wished they would have done the same and just let me go home instead of spending 6-7 hours in jail but I get why they do it now.

Agreed. The Cell Phone video camera has changed everything.... as you mentioned Liability and PR nightmare just waiting to happen. For the police, it is just easier and safer to follow the letter of the law.
 
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