The Dow

biggreydogs

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
13,839
8,330
113
Dow reached 31,188 by Biden’s inauguration and today 30,769 and declining. Let’s go Brandon!!!
 

Moral

HR Legend
Sep 29, 2017
23,576
71,839
113
You guys just reacting to the ebbs and flows or is your complaint deeper than that?

There is a good argument to be made for Biden's support of trade deals, letting China into the WTO etc that is leading to some of the issues with see now. However, to make those complaints you would also have to attack Republican votes for those trade deals and what not. What a pickle.
 
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NCHawk5

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
7,581
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You guys just reacting to the ebbs and flows or is your complaint deeper than that?

There is a good argument to be made for Biden's support of trade deals, letting China into the WTO etc that is leading to some of the issues with see now. However, to make those complaints you would also have to attack Republican votes for those trade deals and what not. What a pickle.
Well his Covid spending certainly dumped gasoline all over the economy and put us in the lead of developed economies worldwide in inflation.

He has followed that up by doing absolutely nothing to help curb inflation and threatened corporate tax hikes as a “solution.” Criticism is warranted, how much falls on him, I don’t know.
 

DavidHawk324

HR MVP
Jul 4, 2002
1,685
966
113
President Donald Trump on Wednesday blasted the Federal Reserve, saying in a name-calling tweet that the central bank should lower interest rates to zero or possibly even below zero.

The president posted consecutive tweets bashing the Fed and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, saying the "bonehead" officials are missing "a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" to boost the economy with rate cuts.
 
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DavidHawk324

HR MVP
Jul 4, 2002
1,685
966
113
Biden hasn’t done well on inflation but let’s not act like Trump was not also a moron. Hammering on the fed to not raise rates, the initial COVID bills were all under him and full of fraud, etc.
 
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NCHawk5

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
7,581
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Look at the defenders of the most incompetent and unpopular president of our lifetime spewing mean orange man tweets as evidence of some sort of culpability.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
108,586
81,261
113
President Donald Trump on Wednesday blasted the Federal Reserve, saying in a name-calling tweet that the central bank should lower interest rates to zero or possibly even below zero.

The president posted consecutive tweets bashing the Fed and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, saying the "bonehead" officials are missing "a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" to boost the economy with rate cuts.

High interest rates is a big problem for real estate developers.
 

DavidHawk324

HR MVP
Jul 4, 2002
1,685
966
113
Look at the defenders of the most incompetent and unpopular president of our lifetime spewing mean orange man tweets as evidence of some sort of culpability.
I actually thought you were a potential reasonable poster with the “Criticism is warranted, how much falls on him, I don’t know” but I now see you probably belong with the “way to go Brandon types”.

Do you think the federal reserve has any culpability in previously inflating the stock market, which is now leading to it being down? Peleton had a market cap around $60 billion the week before Biden was inaugurated. Was that a rational valuation?

Should also note that we don’t lead the developed world in inflation and Biden still has higher approval levels than his predecessor, so not most unpopular. So, I guess its fair to say you’re as bright as someone who thinks “Brandon” is still clever.
 

NCHawk5

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
7,581
5,472
113
I actually thought you were a potential reasonable poster with the “Criticism is warranted, how much falls on him, I don’t know” but I now see you probably belong with the “way to go Brandon types”.

Do you think the federal reserve has any culpability in previously inflating the stock market, which is now leading to it being down? Peleton had a market cap around $60 billion the week before Biden was inaugurated. Was that a rational valuation?

Should also note that we don’t lead the developed world in inflation and Biden still has higher approval levels than his predecessor, so not most unpopular. So, I guess its fair to say you’re as bright as someone who thinks “Brandon” is still clever.
I think Trump and the Fed have responsibility at some level, just disagree on somehow pinning the fed on trump as well. I think Biden has the most responsibility because he passed partisan Covid spending after vaccines. Trump passed bipartisan before vaccines 🤷‍♂️
 

DavidHawk324

HR MVP
Jul 4, 2002
1,685
966
113
To me, the market was overvalued, so it makes sense for that to come back in. I’d put it being overvalued on the fed mostly, although maybe some was a by-product on moves to prevent a COVID depression. I’m not putting that on Trump, but pointing out that he was cheerleading for them to have a policy of very low rates, which would push up stocks.

Inflation is high everywhere. The biggest thing I would blame on Biden was trying to get the $3.5T stimulus passed. He got lucky that Manchen blocked it. For the $1T or whatever he got passed, has that worked its way through the system yet to impact inflation. I guess the expanded unemployment would have although that’s gone now and the higher checks that families were getting (although Trump also advocated for that).
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,942
19,544
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The economy and the stock market are both herds of 1 million buffalo stampeding. You don't get to just say "turn left" and have them do it. To simply give POTUS credit or blame is ridiculously simplistic.
 
May 27, 2010
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17,891
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I guess Biden should have pressured the Fed to push the rates negative then we could all enjoy the privilege of paying a percentage of our bank and savings balances each month for the privilege of using a financial institution. That would be awesome.

Any fool could see this coming if you understand just a sliver of economic theory and equity market valuation. Completely unsustainable.
 
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NCHawk5

HR Heisman
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2019
7,581
5,472
113
I guess Biden should have pressured the Fed to push the rates negative then we could all enjoy the privilege of paying a percentage of our bank and savings balances each month for the privilege of using a financial institution. That would be awesome.

Any fool could see this coming if you understand just a sliver of economic theory and equity market valuation. Completely unsustainable.
 

The Tradition

HR King
Apr 23, 2002
108,586
81,261
113
(Bloomberg) -- The world’s richest nation is waking up to an unpleasant and unfamiliar sensation: It’s getting poorer.

Americans’ collective net worth had been climbing at a dizzying rate for the past two years, even as families and businesses contended with the ravages of Covid-19. Households piled up an extra $38.5 trillion from early 2020 to the end of last year, bringing their collective net worth to a record $142 trillion, the Federal Reserve estimates.

Just as the US is learning to live with the virus and spending shifts back toward pre-pandemic normal, it faces a new scary threat: A plunge in wealth since the start of 2022 that JPMorgan Chase & Co. estimates totals at least $5 trillion -- and could reach $9 trillion by year-end.

So far, the richest Americans have borne the brunt, with US billionaire fortunes down almost $800 billion since their peak amid the sharp losses in stocks, crypto and other financial assets. But surging interest rates are also starting to rattle the housing market, where middle- and working-class families have the bulk of their wealth.

It all adds up to the sudden removal of a major prop to confidence: ever-bigger nest eggs. And it’s by design. To stamp out the highest inflation in decades, the Fed needs Americans to curb their spending, even if it requires an economic slowdown to get there.

“It’s painful to get back to normal after really being in a fantasy world last year,” said John Norris, chief economist at Oakworth Capital Bank. “It’s going to feel a lot worse than it actually is.”

Since the start of the year, the S&P 500 Index is down 18%, the Nasdaq 100 has lost 27% and a Bloomberg index of cryptocurrencies has plunged 48%.

That all amounts to “a wealth shock that is set to drag on growth in the coming year,” JPMorgan economists led by Michael Feroli wrote in a note Friday.

Fed Chair Jerome Powell and his colleagues have repeatedly said they’re actively aiming for such a slowdown, leaving it unlikely policy makers will move to address the Great Wealth Drop of 2022.

Billionaires were the biggest winners of 2020 and 2021. Now they’re losing more than almost everyone else. The Bloomberg Billionaires Index, a daily measure of the wealth of the world’s 500 richest people, has dropped $1.6 trillion since its peak in November.

Leading the way are the Americans on the index, who have lost $797 billion since their peak. Perhaps the most humbled by it all is the world’s richest person, Elon Musk. He’s lost $139.1 billion, or 41% of his wealth, since November, when his net worth briefly surpassed $340 billion. Amazon.com Inc. founder Jeff Bezos, the second-richest person, lost $82.7 billion, or 39% of his peak wealth.

While the wealth losses among the top 0.001% reduce inequality, that won’t be much comfort to most people who worry about the U.S.’s widening disparities.

“In a relative sense, it’s going to make the inequity a little lower -- but in an absolute sense, everyone suffers,” said Reena Aggarwal, director of Georgetown University’s Psaros Center for Financial Markets and Policy.

Like many, Aggarwal is concerned that falling markets will create problems for the broader economy. “Some correction was needed but this is a pretty huge correction, and it’s not stopping.”

A downturn in housing -- made likely by a surge in mortgage rates to the highest since 2009 -- threatens wider reverberations. Over the last decade, the robust real estate market added $18 trillion in market value to owner-occupied home valuations.

US spending has been lifted in recent years by owners tapping the enhanced values of their homes for cash. The practice of home equity extraction likely came to a halt this year. More than 40% of refinancings in the final quarter of last year saw homeowners pull cash out of their homes.

Real estate is far more evenly distributed than financial wealth. The top 1% owns more than half of U.S. holdings of stocks and mutual funds, and the bottom 90% owns less than 12%, according to Federal Reserve estimates. By contrast, in real estate the bottom 90% owns more than half of the total, while the top 1% holds less than 14%.

“Higher home prices and sharply higher mortgage rates have reduced buyer activity,” Lawrence Yun, National Association of Realtors chief economist, said in a statement Thursday. “It looks like more declines are imminent in the upcoming months.”

It could take a while before Americans realize that their pandemic home-price gains have evaporated. Even the stock market selloff could take a while to translate into spending in a way that could tip the U.S. into recession.

“A general selloff in the equity market may have a dampening effect,” said Chris Gaffney, president of world markets at TIAA Bank, but there’s a lag for investors. “They look at their statements on a quarterly basis and all of a sudden they say, ‘Oh my goodness, my stock-market portfolio is down 20%, maybe I shouldn’t take that vacation,’ or ‘Maybe I shouldn’t buy that larger TV or a new car.’”

 

HawkNester

HR MVP
Gold Member
Oct 17, 2001
1,815
3,043
113
Bay Area, CA
(Bloomberg) -- The world’s richest nation is waking up to an unpleasant and unfamiliar sensation: It’s getting poorer.

Americans’ collective net worth had been climbing at a dizzying rate for the past two years, even as families and businesses contended with the ravages of Covid-19. Households piled up an extra $38.5 trillion from early 2020 to the end of last year, bringing their collective net worth to a record $142 trillion, the Federal Reserve estimates.

Just as the US is learning to live with the virus and spending shifts back toward pre-pandemic normal, it faces a new scary threat: A plunge in wealth since the start of 2022 that JPMorgan Chase & Co. estimates totals at least $5 trillion -- and could reach $9 trillion by year-end.

So far, the richest Americans have borne the brunt, with US billionaire fortunes down almost $800 billion since their peak amid the sharp losses in stocks, crypto and other financial assets. But surging interest rates are also starting to rattle the housing market, where middle- and working-class families have the bulk of their wealth.

It all adds up to the sudden removal of a major prop to confidence: ever-bigger nest eggs. And it’s by design. To stamp out the highest inflation in decades, the Fed needs Americans to curb their spending, even if it requires an economic slowdown to get there.

“It’s painful to get back to normal after really being in a fantasy world last year,” said John Norris, chief economist at Oakworth Capital Bank. “It’s going to feel a lot worse than it actually is.”

Since the start of the year, the S&P 500 Index is down 18%, the Nasdaq 100 has lost 27% and a Bloomberg index of cryptocurrencies has plunged 48%.

That all amounts to “a wealth shock that is set to drag on growth in the coming year,” JPMorgan economists led by Michael Feroli wrote in a note Friday.

Fed Chair Jerome Powell and his colleagues have repeatedly said they’re actively aiming for such a slowdown, leaving it unlikely policy makers will move to address the Great Wealth Drop of 2022.

Billionaires were the biggest winners of 2020 and 2021. Now they’re losing more than almost everyone else. The Bloomberg Billionaires Index, a daily measure of the wealth of the world’s 500 richest people, has dropped $1.6 trillion since its peak in November.

Leading the way are the Americans on the index, who have lost $797 billion since their peak. Perhaps the most humbled by it all is the world’s richest person, Elon Musk. He’s lost $139.1 billion, or 41% of his wealth, since November, when his net worth briefly surpassed $340 billion. Amazon.com Inc. founder Jeff Bezos, the second-richest person, lost $82.7 billion, or 39% of his peak wealth.

While the wealth losses among the top 0.001% reduce inequality, that won’t be much comfort to most people who worry about the U.S.’s widening disparities.

“In a relative sense, it’s going to make the inequity a little lower -- but in an absolute sense, everyone suffers,” said Reena Aggarwal, director of Georgetown University’s Psaros Center for Financial Markets and Policy.

Like many, Aggarwal is concerned that falling markets will create problems for the broader economy. “Some correction was needed but this is a pretty huge correction, and it’s not stopping.”

A downturn in housing -- made likely by a surge in mortgage rates to the highest since 2009 -- threatens wider reverberations. Over the last decade, the robust real estate market added $18 trillion in market value to owner-occupied home valuations.

US spending has been lifted in recent years by owners tapping the enhanced values of their homes for cash. The practice of home equity extraction likely came to a halt this year. More than 40% of refinancings in the final quarter of last year saw homeowners pull cash out of their homes.

Real estate is far more evenly distributed than financial wealth. The top 1% owns more than half of U.S. holdings of stocks and mutual funds, and the bottom 90% owns less than 12%, according to Federal Reserve estimates. By contrast, in real estate the bottom 90% owns more than half of the total, while the top 1% holds less than 14%.

“Higher home prices and sharply higher mortgage rates have reduced buyer activity,” Lawrence Yun, National Association of Realtors chief economist, said in a statement Thursday. “It looks like more declines are imminent in the upcoming months.”

It could take a while before Americans realize that their pandemic home-price gains have evaporated. Even the stock market selloff could take a while to translate into spending in a way that could tip the U.S. into recession.

“A general selloff in the equity market may have a dampening effect,” said Chris Gaffney, president of world markets at TIAA Bank, but there’s a lag for investors. “They look at their statements on a quarterly basis and all of a sudden they say, ‘Oh my goodness, my stock-market portfolio is down 20%, maybe I shouldn’t take that vacation,’ or ‘Maybe I shouldn’t buy that larger TV or a new car.’”

So what I’m hearing is billionaires shouldn’t exist. Thanks for the confirmation.