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The Good The Bad And The Ugly

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reddogg26

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Apr 11, 2007
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GMAN can say whatever the HELL he wants!!! He is a hammer and NOBODY can stop him!!!

Clark has been out a month and his 3rd match back is against Brock (who I feel is his biggest threat to a title) and he lost on some piss poor clock management.

Carton put up one hell of a fight against number #1 I am liking his chances to be on the stand in March more and more each week

Sorensen might be in trouble here. He will drop to 3 this week and could drop further in the future. Collica just showed the rest of the country how to beat him. I would still not bet against him wrestling on Saturday night in St. Louis.

KEMDAWG THANK YOU FOR COMING TO IOWA!!!!! LOVE his upside he can still get better guys!!! He's not beating Nolf but NOBODY at 157 scares me other than Nolf.

St. John I know his family pretty well so I will just say Pass here

Meyer has 0 confidence and cement in his shoes!!!! Hope he figures it out to in time for him. Great kid that deserves more.

BROOKS Thank GOD for stopping the bleeding!!!!! Damn official screwed us here.

Wilcke should have never went down Brands will say that is on him. Kid is going to be one tough hombre next year 184.

Stoll WTH Sammy will drop some here. PRAYING TO GOD HE DID NOT HURT HIS KNEE AGAIN!!! I would not be surprised if he is held out of psu dual on Friday.

Officials and clock managers can go fist themselves!!

I was mad at our guys like a lot of you but then I took a step back and realized a few things. We beat them pretty bad last year and they beat us in March. I still believe we could EASILY have 4(125,133,149 & 157) guys wrestling on Saturday Night in St. Louis. After today I really think Brooks will be wrestling for 3rd and Topher will find his way on to the stand! Then there is Stoll and Meyer and after today I really don't know what to expect.... I am pretty sure that won't be enough to beat psu but it should get us a trophy and while that is not what we want it is a step in the right direction and with the studs that are coming here I am VERY excited about the future!!!
 
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Thanks for not completely overreacting to a DUAL loss to the #1 ranked team in the country. I agree with what you said. Worried about Meyer and Stoll more than anything. I, personally, am not worried about Gilman, Clark, Carton, Sorensen, Kemerer, or Brooks. Sorensen got lulled right into Collicas game plan, he needs to finish those shots when he gets in. Collica wrestled the perfect game plan. Hope Stolls knee isn't bad. Uhg what a rollercoaster of emotions in this dual. I'm still triggered from Clarks match.

2 years ago we beat Okie state 30-7 at Gallagher arena and they finished above us at NCAAs. Lets not give up hope so easily.
 
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Doe's anybody who watched the match on Direct Tv chanel 675 remember the name of the BBQ joint that bought an ad? Thinking about getting a tee-shirt or a hat from them.
 
Just re-watched the Clark match. He lost fair and square. The 12-13 seconds of riding time they tacked on at the end for Clark after going the wrong direction with the clock were correct, ending at 58-59 seconds. I timed all RT during the match with my own stopwatch and came up with only :52 for Clark, as there was some confusion on when exactly the TD by Brock occurred. Clark wrestled well, had Brock dead to rights on at least two, arguably three TDs: the first when he had Brock's leg on his shoulder and Brock managed to convert it to his own TD; the second when he was all the way behind Brock on their feet early in the third and Brock somersaulted off the mat; and the third on a spin-behind attempt that I don't know how Brock fought off. I also don't know how Brock kept from going to his back on Clark's killer half-nelson. Brock is a hell of a scrambler and he found a way to win. I'm not sure Clark's injury had any impact. Just gotta close the door on those TDs, and keep him down.
 
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TarpHawk said:
Just re-watched the Clark match. He lost fair and square. The 12-13 seconds of riding time they tacked on at the end for Clark after going the wrong direction with the clock were correct, ending at 58-59 seconds. I timed all RT during the match with my own stopwatch and came up with only :52 for Clark, as there was some confusion on when exactly the TD by Brock occurred. Clark wrestled well, had Brock dead to rights on at least two, arguably three TDs: the first when he had Brock's leg on his shoulder and Brock managed to convert it to his own TD; the second when he was all the way behind Brock on their feet early in the third and Brock somersaulted off the mat; and the third on a spin-behind attempt that I don't know how Brock fought off. I also don't know how Brock kept from going to his back on Clark's killer half-nelson. Brock is a hell of a scrambler and he found a way to win. I'm not sure Clark's injury had any impact. Just gotta close the door on those TDs, and keep him down.
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Agree, the riding time wasn't why he lost, but i was very disappointed with how stalling was called in that match, not that I think it would've made a difference. Also, after rewatching, I still don't think that second TD by Brock was 2. But whatever, it is what it is. I still feel good picking Clark in a rematch, provided he isn't hindered by his injury even more in March.. and that instead, it gets slightly better, or remains the same.
 
AFHawk86 said:
Wish the NCAA would change the PD rules. Doesn't incentivize scoring and not any more "dangerous" than many positions that are allowed.
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Clarks bar/half didn't look any more potentially dangerous than Nickals cradle that looked like it was about to break Gravina's back.
 
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I will say Brock and Rogers are fun to watch. Both guys have some serious funk. Rogers obviously had St. John way overmatched and could pretty much do what he wanted, but that first takedown and his pinning combination were flat-out nasty.

Although the result was painful, 133 was a fantastic match with lots of great action and a variety of offense from both guys. We need more matches like that. Preferably won by our guys.
 
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Abro1975 said:
After watching a few of Nathan Tomasello's matches lately, I would make him the favorite at 133. He took apart Zane Richards today 12-4.
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Sounds like he really tore Richards apart.

Good news is that Cory will have multiple chances to boost his seed at Nationals, despite today's loss. And I like his chances very much if he runs into Brock again.
 
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I just sat down and watched it again. I'm not too concerned either.

125 : Gilman is out to wreck fools this year. He's going to win it all.
133: Clark will not lose that match again. It was an odd match and the breaks went the other way today. I feel more confident in Clark's shoulder today in a loss than I was last weekend. He'll be in the finals for the 3rd year in a row.
141 : I LOVE the way Carton wrestles. He works his ass off and never steps backward. Looking like he's a round of 12 (possibly better) type guy.
149 : Gotta open up a bit more. He's had a number of close ones with him, just a matter of time until you get knocked off if you don't open up. No shame, should still go into NCAA's in the #3 spot.
157 : Stud. Fantastic on his feet. Could make a DEEP run in March.
165 : meh. Need to get Gunther back to get a win or two in March.
174 : Crutchmer is good, but he's not that good. Last year Meyer gassed him after getting put in a headlock. Need to see a spark out of the senior.
184 : He just smoked a REALLY good wrestler. Boyd is legit. Keep rolling Sammy
197 : It is what it is.
Hwt : just stay healthy until March. That's all I ask.

No shame in losing to Okie St. That's a really good team and we lost some "weird" matches today. It's disappointing, but I'm not concerned.
 
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With all the talk of Carton's toughness I will say this, he will have to take more shots/chances earlier in the match to beat the top ranked guys. Close may be a moral victory, but moral victories don't score points at nationals.
 
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TarpHawk said:
Just re-watched the Clark match. He lost fair and square. The 12-13 seconds of riding time they tacked on at the end for Clark after going the wrong direction with the clock were correct, ending at 58-59 seconds. I timed all RT during the match with my own stopwatch and came up with only :52 for Clark, as there was some confusion on when exactly the TD by Brock occurred. Clark wrestled well, had Brock dead to rights on at least two, arguably three TDs: the first when he had Brock's leg on his shoulder and Brock managed to convert it to his own TD; the second when he was all the way behind Brock on their feet early in the third and Brock somersaulted off the mat; and the third on a spin-behind attempt that I don't know how Brock fought off. I also don't know how Brock kept from going to his back on Clark's killer half-nelson. Brock is a hell of a scrambler and he found a way to win. I'm not sure Clark's injury had any impact. Just gotta close the door on those TDs, and keep him down.
Click to expand...

Couldn't disagree more. What match were you watching???
 
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AFHawk86 said:
Wish the NCAA would change the PD rules. Doesn't incentivize scoring and not any more "dangerous" than many positions that are allowed.
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It amazes me that a slight crank with a bar or even a half can get an immediate PD whistle, but a bow and arrow where you are bending a guy in half at the spine is OK.

Just to be clear, I do not have a problem with the bow and arrow. I just think you should be allowed to run a bar. Gable wore shoulders out with his wing, but never caused any injuries.
 
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championhawk said:
Probably the TD, the stall on Clark, the potentially dangerous, the fact that Brock was allowed to flee the mat. This ref was by far the worst we have had all season. Oklahoma State won fair and square but that official was terrible.
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This ref is evidently an Oklahoma native and an Okie State fan. Some refs can keep their allegiance from affecting their calls. Chuck Yagla was incredibly fair despite his history as an Iowa wrestler and fan. Some refs keep their personal bias out of it; others don't do so well.
 
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purescurve said:
Doe's anybody who watched the match on Direct Tv chanel 675 remember the name of the BBQ joint that bought an ad? Thinking about getting a tee-shirt or a hat from them.
Click to expand...

RIBCRIB_BLUE_DOME.png
 
WWDMHawkeye said:
This ref is evidently an Oklahoma native and an Okie State fan. Some refs can keep their allegiance from affecting their calls. Chuck Yagla was incredibly fair despite his history as an Iowa wrestler and fan. Some refs keep their personal bias out of it; others don't do so well.
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Okie State has a long tradition of being very good to their local officials.
 
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TarpHawk said:
Which part did you disagree with, Gobblin?
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All of it except the riding time part... Couldn't care less about that. The phantom TD, the PD, the fleeing the mat, and lack of stalls called on Brock in the 3rd makes it whatever the opposite of "fair and square" is.

Clark is clearly the superior wrestler and got absolutely hosed by that homer, brainless referee.
 
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Gobblin said:
All of it except the riding time part... Couldn't care less about that. The phantom TD, the PD, the fleeing the mat, and lack of stalls called on Brock in the 3rd makes it whatever the opposite of "fair and square" is.

Clark is clearly the superior wrestler and got absolutely hosed by that homer, brainless referee.
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The call that hurt Clark the most (other than the pd call when should have been counting nf) was when the reff started counting 5 when Cory was trying to roll Brock to his back with front headlock. That made it so Cory couldn't take the stalling call with 10 seconds left and had to come up off the legs allowing Brock to escape. Never seen a reff count in that position(wasn't that much different that the move ssj got pinned in) and Clark was definitely confused when it got stopped. The takedown in the 2nd(no way was it a takedown btw) didnt really matter . Really weird match, Clark can win next time . Could watch these two wrestle for weeks, great scrambles. Was surprised Brock never even tried to ride Clark , seemed like he felt very uncomfortable there.
 
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slicone said:
The call that hurt Clark the most (other than the pd call when should have been counting nf) was when the reff started counting 5 when Cory was trying to roll Brock to his back with front headlock. That made it so Cory couldn't take the stalling call with 10 seconds left and had to come up off the legs allowing Brock to escape. Never seen a reff count in that position(wasn't that much different that the move ssj got pinned in) and Clark was definitely confused when it got stopped. The takedown in the 2nd(no way was it a takedown btw) didnt really matter . Really weird match, Clark can win next time . Could watch these two wrestle for weeks, great scrambles. Was surprised Brock never even tried to ride Clark , seemed like he felt very uncomfortable there.
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That was a side by side. The ref made the right call there. They changed the rule a couple years ago after Schopp would lock it in for 2 minutes and beat kids 2-0. Since it was a pinning combination refs didn't stop it. I believe the rule came in with the 5 seconds on a leg call. Clark knows it's hard to turn good kids in it and hard to get back into a ride in 5 seconds.

The takedown was a terrible call but the stall call wasn't.
 
slicone said:
The call that hurt Clark the most (other than the pd call when should have been counting nf) was when the reff started counting 5 when Cory was trying to roll Brock to his back with front headlock. That made it so Cory couldn't take the stalling call with 10 seconds left and had to come up off the legs allowing Brock to escape. Never seen a reff count in that position(wasn't that much different that the move ssj got pinned in) and Clark was definitely confused when it got stopped. The takedown in the 2nd(no way was it a takedown btw) didnt really matter . Really weird match, Clark can win next time . Could watch these two wrestle for weeks, great scrambles. Was surprised Brock never even tried to ride Clark , seemed like he felt very uncomfortable there.
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The reason Brock didn't try to ride Clark is because he couldn't, nobody in the country can. Clark is and always has been fast, and explosive in the down position. I can't recall a single time in his hawkeye career that someone acquired riding time against him.
 
nearfall2 said:
That was a side by side. The ref made the right call there. They changed the rule a couple years ago after Schopp would lock it in for 2 minutes and beat kids 2-0. Since it was a pinning combination refs didn't stop it. I believe the rule came in with the 5 seconds on a leg call. Clark knows it's hard to turn good kids in it and hard to get back into a ride in 5 seconds.

The takedown was a terrible call but the stall call wasn't.
Click to expand...


Disagree.... The rule states once it becomes evident the top man is not using the hold to expose , a 5 count CAN be started and stalling called. It is not supposed to start immediately, and certainly not to be stopped middle of the top man initiating a roll attempt to expose the bottom man

These rules are written giving a official some judgement in that situation, as to let pinning combinations, and action play out.
 
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slicone said:
Disagree.... The rule states once it becomes evident the top man is not using the hold to expose , a 5 count CAN be started and stalling called. It is not supposed to start immediately, and certainly not to be stopped middle of the top man initiating a roll attempt to expose the bottom man

These rules are written giving a official some judgement in that situation, as to let pinning combinations, and action play out.
Click to expand...
If that is the wording then I stand corrected. Clark was definitely trying to extend him and lay into a roll through during the first couple of counts.
 
It ain't 42,000, but it's a start.

Actually, it is a very nice crowd by Okie State's standards. I think they had about 3,000 for the beat-down the Hawks put on them last time.
 
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