The subtle shift we are seeing in the Democratic Primary.

[lucas80]

If you notice the language Hillary is using and of her surrogates it's clear that there is a triangulation going on to clarify that Bernie is not a Democrat. There has been a lot of leeway given because nobody wanted to take away energized voters that Hillary will need in November. Now we are seeing the triangulation where it's pointed out that Bernie has not been there with Democrats, and that he's using the party now as a vehicle of convenience. It is clear that President Obama is still a very popular figure among Democrats, and part of the triangulation is to point out Bernie hasn't been with Obama and the party 100 percent of the time.
It's a light touch, but it's clear that there is a move to show he's an Independent who hasn't been with the party or President Obama 100 percent of the time.

 

[INXS83]

If you notice the language Hillary is using and of her surrogates it's clear that there is a triangulation going on to clarify that Bernie is not a Democrat. There has been a lot of leeway given because nobody wanted to take away energized voters that Hillary will need in November. Now we are seeing the triangulation where it's pointed out that Bernie has not been there with Democrats, and that he's using the party now as a vehicle of convenience. It is clear that President Obama is still a very popular figure among Democrats, and part of the triangulation is to point out Bernie hasn't been with Obama and the party 100 percent of the time.
It's a light touch, but it's clear that there is a move to show he's an Independent who hasn't been with the party or President Obama 100 percent of the time.

In the eyes of some, that will make Bernie even more appealing.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

If he hasn't been with the Dems 100% of the time it's only because he was to the left of them.

I don't see how this is going to help her in the Dem primaries where it's mostly the far left of the party that is going to show up.

Of course the way the super delegates are coming out in her favor, it's questionable if she really has much to fear from Bernie.

 

[artradley]

If you notice the language Hillary is using and of her surrogates it's clear that there is a triangulation going on to clarify that Bernie is not a Democrat. There has been a lot of leeway given because nobody wanted to take away energized voters that Hillary will need in November. Now we are seeing the triangulation where it's pointed out that Bernie has not been there with Democrats, and that he's using the party now as a vehicle of convenience. It is clear that President Obama is still a very popular figure among Democrats, and part of the triangulation is to point out Bernie hasn't been with Obama and the party 100 percent of the time.
It's a light touch, but it's clear that there is a move to show he's an Independent who hasn't been with the party or President Obama 100 percent of the time.

That makes sense. But what I think is the real story this year is that neither the GOP nor the Dems have the constituency they thought they had. Half of GOP voters -- Trump supporters -- are not that interested in the substantive and traditional conservative arguments of small government and social conservatism. They are fundamentally nationalists who are angry about a country that's changing around them. And half of Democratic voters -- Bernie's supporters -- are far more liberal and socialistic than is represented by the typical Democratic platform. They see a wealthy country -- with some people almost obscenely wealthy -- and don't see why anybody should struggle with basic needs such as healthcare and education in a country of such vast means.

And so you have somebody who is by no means conservative leading in the GOP polls -- to the horror of the GOP establishment. And you have an honest-to-god Socialist competing strongly for the Democratic nomination -- to the great consternation of the Democratic establishment. It's not like anything I've ever seen, and I think it's quite the revelation.

 

[22*43*51]

This is why Bernie won't win the nomination unfortunately.

The DNC knows what he is and if Bernie becomes their Mascot then they no longer are the DNC, but rather the SNC.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

That makes sense. But what I think is the real story this year is that neither the GOP nor the Dems have the constituency they thought they had. Half of GOP voters -- Trump supporters -- are not that interested in the substantive and traditional conservative arguments of small government and social conservatism. They are fundamentally nationalists who are angry about a country that's changing around them. And half of Democratic voters -- Bernie's supporters -- are far more liberal and socialistic than is represented by the typical Democratic platform. They see a wealthy country -- with some people almost obscenely wealthy -- and don't see why anybody should struggle with basic needs such as healthcare and education in a country of such vast means.

And so you have somebody who is by no means conservative leading in the GOP polls -- to the horror of the GOP establishment. And you have an honest-to-god Socialist competing strongly for the Democratic nomination -- to the great consternation of the Democratic establishment. It's not like anything I've ever seen, and I think it's quite the revelation.

I don't know if Trumps supporters are angry about the country changing so much as it seems like they are nationalists who fear outsiders. That seems to be a lot of Trump's appeal and they seem to have viewed his style as meaning that he's a strong leader.

You are right though, they arn't nearly as interested in the small government and policy angles of conservatism. With Trump it seems like they are ok with government health care and the like as long as he stops those darn Muslims from coming in.

Quite frankly I'm amazed that his opponents have not hit him harder on the statements he made about the government paying people's healthcare. The way Trump talked about it, it sounded like his problem with the ACA was that it wasn't liberal enough.

 

[soybean]

Bernie was never a Democrat and Trump was never a Republican. If ever there were clear cut cases of Dino's and Rino's these two are it.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Bernie was never a Democrat and Trump was never a Republican. If ever there were clear cut cases of Dino's and Rino's these two are it.

I question that whole bit on Bernie. Usually when people call someone a Dino or a Rino it's because they are not extreme enough. But when Bernie breaks with the Dem's it's because he's more to the left of them.

Trump you are right about.

 

[artradley]

I question that whole bit on Bernie. Usually when people call someone a Dino or a Rino it's because they are not extreme enough. But when Bernie breaks with the Dem's it's because he's more to the left of them.

Trump you are right about.

Bernie always ran as an independent, and is frequently left of the mainstream Democratic Party. If his views have not aligned with mainstream Democratic Policy, and he has never before been affiliated with the Democratic Party, then I would say "Democrat in Name Only" is a pretty accurate title. I'm not sure why it matters to you that he breaks left of the Dems rather than to the right -- either way he frequently votes against Democratic mainstream.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Bernie always ran as an independent, and is frequently left of the mainstream Democratic Party. If his views have not aligned with mainstream Democratic Policy, and he has never before been affiliated with the Democratic Party, then I would say "Democrat in Name Only" is a pretty accurate title. I'm not sure why it matters to you that he breaks left of the Dems rather than to the right -- either way he frequently votes against Democratic mainstream.

Simple because a lot of the core base of the Democratic party want their guys to be further to the left.

In terms of running as an independent I would say he was independent in name only. The Dems never ran a candidate against him for the senate seat. Now they did run a candidate against Liberman. . . but the complaint against Liberman was he was too far right.

I think the Dem's acceptance of him speaks for itself.

 

[lucas80]

I heard something interesting on NPR's On Point this morning about Sanders and voter turnout so far. Turnout in Iowa and New Hampshire has been lower than 2008 for Democrats. That means Sanders is not energizing new voters, or infrequent voters. I think that suggests in the long run Clinton does not need to worry about alienating the Sanders crowd.
Republican turnout is up, which suggests Trump is driving up turnout.