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To be sure, there are disputes about the authorship of certain of the Pauline epistles. But scholarly research would also have something to say about Christian tradition. Indeed, perhaps one of the greatest scholars of Christian doctrine - Pelikan - has a whole lot to say of it. There are times when the acclamation of belief is just as important as the historical perfection.Wrong. Seven
And this is why it’s important to do scholarly research before condemning the faith of other people.
You need to back that up. I routinely support the teachings of Jesus. Most so-called Christians here are more interested in making money, punishing gays, restricting women, refusing to support health care, fighting wars, defending violence, and so on.ITT we've got an ironically named poster, WWJD, showing an utter lack of understanding of WJWD.
Pseudo Pauline writings are a thing. None of this is as simple as you try to make.
Just out of curiosity, how would you explain how other M Div’s come to significantly different views from yourself?Pseudo Pauline writings are a thing. None of this is as simple as you try to make.
Just out of curiosity, how would you explain how other M Div’s come to significantly different views from yourself?
As with any academic discipline there will be different schools of thought. Though most scholars who are advanced in language study agree on pseudo Pauline writings. It was a very common practice of the time. When you find yourself asking why Paul seems to directly contract himself it’s pretty likely that you’ll find the contradiction likely wasn’t written by Paul but by a community of his followers seeking to do his work in a different time and context.Just out of curiosity, how would you explain how other M Div’s come to significantly different views from yourself?
Sounds like a bunch of people that think scripture should be re-written to meet their approval. The Jesus Seminar types.Theological academia would disagree with you.
Whew! That was awesome. What movie was it from? I mean that can't be real, can it?
Kinda like "progressive Christians".Sounds like a bunch of people that think scripture should be re-written to meet their approval. The Jesus Seminar types.
FIFYKinda like "Republican Christians".
Christians flying rainbow flags. Churches being involved with Pride parades.10 things about Christianity that Jesus would not be happy about if he returned:
1. That his vision for a transformed society, got twisted into an afterlife fantasy about heaven.
2. That a religion was formed to worship his name, instead of a movement to advance his message.
3. That the gospel says his death solved the problem of humankind's separation from God, instead of accepting that his life revealed the truth that there is no separation from God.
4. That the religion bearing his name was conceived by the theories and doctrines of Paul, instead of the truth Jesus lived and demonstrated.
5. That he was said to exclusively be God in the flesh, putting his example out of reach, rather than teaching that we all share in the same spirit that empowered his character and life.
6. That the religion that claims his name, teaches that his wisdom and teachings are the only legitimate way to know truth and God.
7. The idea that humankind stands condemned before God and deserving of Divine wrath and eternal conscious judgement, requiring the death of Jesus to fix it.
8. That people are waiting on Jesus to return to save the world and end suffering, rather than taking responsibility for saving the world and solving suffering ourselves.
9. That people think there is magical potency in uttering the name of Jesus, rather than accessing our own natural powers and capabilities to effect change.
10. That people have come to associate Jesus with church, theology, politics and power, rather than courage, justice, humanity, beauty and love.
--Jim Palmer
Normalizing sinful behavior has to be way up there on His list.Christians flying rainbow flags. Churches being involved with Pride parades.
There’s so much more to this. I would recommend picking up The Biblical Canon by Lee Martin McDonald if you are actually interested in biblical studies.In the following 13 New Testament letters written by
the Apostle Paul, he identifies himself as the author
in the first verse of the first chapter:
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians,
1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon
And the actual answer is:In the following 13 New Testament letters written by
the Apostle Paul, he identifies himself as the author
in the first verse of the first chapter:
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians,
1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon
Who gets to define what is God’s standards and what is not?Sure I have. Making a mistake is one thing. Doing things on purpose you know is wrong is something completely different. Living in a way that you know God disapproves of is flat out wrong . Again not my standards or yours. God sets the standards.
I do my best live my life in an approved way. Doesn’t mean I’m perfect but I strive to do what’s right . The whole key is effort. Are we taking steps to improve? To bring our life into harmony with gods requirements ?
Look at your response and try and answer that again.....(hint) It's God who sets the standards and many are black and white with no grey area.Who gets to define what is God’s standards and what is not?
So then what about Jesus’ whole “you’ve heard it said (ie: the Old Testament) but I say…” part? I would suggest a better answer to this question would be to use Jesus’ answer when he was asked basically the same thing. He quoted the Shema from Deut. and said the most important thing is to love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, and mind and your neighbor as yourself.@prlyles.......The 10 Commandments are a good place
to start and we can sin against them in thought, word,
and deed. For example the Commandment "You Shall
Not Murder" You may not have killed someone but
you may have hated someone and that is a sin.
He? Does God have male genitalia?Look at your response and try and answer that again.....(hint) It's God who sets the standards and many are black and white with no grey area.
I am going to go ahead and assume you are not very familiar with the Bible? Or you are one of many who do not believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God? Either way God's viewpoint on human conduct is in the Bible. He has not changed.
Paul is also credited with being the writer of Hebrews. Completed around 61CE. Shortly after his house arrest in Rome. The letter was for Hebrew Christians living in Judea. He wrote it because many who had become Christians were regressing back to following the old law code.In the following 13 New Testament letters written by
the Apostle Paul, he identifies himself as the author
in the first verse of the first chapter:
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians,
1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon
Once again it's pretty clear you don't have much knowledge of the Bible or believe it's inspired . If you did you would see God is identified as HE....anything else and you're basing it on your opinion, or human philosophyHe? Does God have male genitalia?
Setting all that aside, it would seem to me that the best way to encourage people to talk about God is not to distract from the substance by quibbling with the referential pronouns they use.Once again it's pretty clear you don't have much knowledge of the Bible or believe it's inspired . If you did you would see God is identified as HE....anything else and you're basing it on your opinion, or human philosophy
In human form (Jesus), yes.He? Does God have male genitalia?
Perhaps that has more to do with the culture of the time of the biblical writers? I wonder why it is important to you that God is male? You, of course I’m sure, are aware that while the predominant references to God in scripture are male there are female references as well?Once again it's pretty clear you don't have much knowledge of the Bible or believe it's inspired . If you did you would see God is identified as HE....anything else and you're basing it on your opinion, or human philosophy
Referred to in masculine terms, otherwise God is God.Once again it's pretty clear you don't have much knowledge of the Bible or believe it's inspired . If you did you would see God is identified as HE....anything else and you're basing it on your opinion, or human philosophy
There’s quite a few female references, Isaiah 49:15 for example. I’m just trying to get you to think bigger. To research more. Or at least to assume less when you pull out daggers against others. Jesus said love God and neighbor is most important, good advice. Start with that.Referred to in masculine terms, otherwise God is God.
Just out of curiosity, how many languages are you facile with?There’s quite a few female references, Isaiah 49:15 for example. I’m just trying to get you to think bigger. To research more. Or at least to assume less when you pull out daggers against others. Jesus said love God and neighbor is most important, good advice. Start with that.
Where?
This is all sort of a completely academic exercise that doesn't really add that much to the ultimate theology, inasmuch as (as you note) attribution of human gender to God is wildly speculative at the least. With that said, I note that these examples do tend to be, quite literally, similes, metaphors, and symbolic parables (as opposed, say, to "conversations" with or "direct references" to God using a specific - almost universally, male - gender pronoun, including, for example, by Christ himself), and in 49:15, God actually seems to be contrasting ("yet") as much as comparing. At the end of the day, I'm perfectly happy just noting that the language of the authors undoubtedly reflects their contemporary cultural biases and just leave it that, without trying to answer an unanswerable mystery. But I really don't think these particular scriptural references are particularly compelling for your point. Honestly, it sorta has a "first draw the curves, then plot the data" feel to it.The references that scholars point to include female analogies for God. It is also a good idea to look into the characterization of God as Lady Wisdom. I understand that this is deeper and a level beyond “but the Bible uses HE.”
Genesis 1:27 Women and Men created in God’s image
“Humankind was created as God’s reflection: in the divine image God created them; female and male, God made them.”
Hosea 11:3-4 God described as a mother
God: “Yet it was I who taught Ephraim to walk, I who took them up in my arms; but they did not know that I healed them. I led them with cords of human kindness, with bands of love. I was to them like those who lift infants to their cheeks. I bent down to them and fed them.”
Hosea 13:8 God described as a mother bear
“Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them and tear them asunder…”
Deuteronomy 32:11-12 God described as a mother eagle
“Like the eagle that stirs up its nest, and hovers over its young, God spreads wings to catch you, and carries you on pinions.”
Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth
“You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.”
Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother
God: “As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”
Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother
God: “Can a woman forget her nursing child, or show no compassion for the child of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you.”
Isaiah 42:14 God as a woman in labor
God: “For a long time I have held my peace, I have kept myself still and restrained myself; now I will cry out like a woman in labor, I will gasp and pant.”
Psalm 131:2 God as a Mother
“But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; my soul is like the weaned child that is with me.”
Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman
“As the eyes of a servant looks to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to you, YHWH, until you show us your mercy!”
Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen
Jesus: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”
Luke 15:8-10 God as woman looking for her lost coin
Jesus: “Or what woman having ten silver coins, is she loses one of them, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
That's a whole bunch of people not going to heaven then. That's also like 90% of Christians I know that fit one of those descriptions.Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
While it’s not an approach that I fully subscribe to, there is at least some possibility that you are quite right.That's a whole bunch of people not going to heaven then. That's also like 90% of Christians I know that fit one of those descriptions.
That's what the poster I responded to said. He said he takes scripture literally and that's what the scripture says. So, which one is it?While it’s not an approach that I fully subscribe to, there is at least some possibility that you are quite right.