This game is why KF fans are KF fans

Gonzo Bloor

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But we do have PP and can build a low-risk offensive game plan around consistently outstanding to great defense. In even the best of years Iowa's offense is seldom able to win high scoring games.

You were, I assume, agreeing with me about Sam Grant?
Yeah that's my point. Take away PP and we're a sub .500 team because we're going to give up 25+ points per game and still generate little to no offense.
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Still doesn't mean Grant won singlehandedly.

Signed, William Tecumseh Sherman.
I am actually writing a book right now about Grant, Sherman and Admiral Porter-the third and forgotten guy that won the war in 64 and 65.

The March to the Sea was Cump's idea but it was all part of Grant's master plan. The three fathers of Total War.
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Yes it has. Our last two teams were 2 and 5 seeds respectively. Fran normally gets us to the dance and usually to the second round, last year an exception.

Not sure what you think "our place in the basketball world" was before Alford came to town, but Dr. Tom wasn't doing anything that Fran hasn't been doing. Not until the Sweet 16 his final season, anyway. Lot of 2nd Round NCAA exits, with the occasional NIT.
No one says it like you do in your postscript.

One Sweet 16 since 1988. None since 1999.
 
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jberesford

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Dec 1, 2001
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I'll admit I skipped through half the threads in this post. I saw enough of the usual Ferentz loyalist garbage in the first half that I didn't need to continue.

1: Quality teams don't 'get better' as the season goes on year in and year out. Quality coaching has their team ready on week one instead of pissing away games they should have won in September.

2: This offense is still garbage. It's a damn travesty that one side of the ball can carry a team to the level that they have. Purdue was a head scratcher. Not sure what clicked that game but that was an outlier. Looking real on offense the week before was against a team that has not and will not win a game on this continent this season.

3:. You have the pieces in place to be a top ten program. The Big Ten west is weak and for the taking. Instead this program is ran like a family business where the idiot kid is the heir apparent.

We laughed when Delaney did Legends and Leaders. Seemed stupid. At it's core it was a response to the Big 12 North/South dominance. But here we are. East/West dominance. And the West is trash and the longest tenured coach in the country struggles to win the right to get trounced by the East champ and we're supposed to be glad we're close every year while his kid continues to fail on the job.
 

Arbor1

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You don't think small state population, small media market, small school, boring state, shitty weather, few accessory sales, low level social media presence and now NIL might be greater impediments to Iowa recruiting and success than Kirk Ferentz?

What is this change you feel is essential? Who is the coach you think Iowa could afford to hire, would be willing to come to Iowa, overcome all the social and demographic factors working against Iowa and guarantee greater success than KF? Every time a P5 coaching change happens people think it is for the better, but in reality, the vast majority of those new hires do not work out.

That thinking is what brought Todd Lickliter and Steve Alford to Iowa's door. Now, 23 years later Iowa still hasn't recovered its place in the BBall world.​
TRUTH! It does happen on these boards. Thank you for this post. It seems so simple to understand but so many just can't deal with the reality. Comparatively we have it VERY good all things considered.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Big Sherman guy myself. Wrote a few papers about him in college. Nathanael Greene too.
Greene is another too forgotten to history general.

Grant planned the victory before he was even mustered back into the Illinois militia and given his first command. There's a map he was often seen reviewing and making marks and sticking pens. It was all the places he would attack and then, in 64 it played out the final scenario.

All that Grant ever said about it was "I can read a map". On the topic, you obviously know that Cump was theatrical. In a post war interview, he said of Grant: "I'm a damn sight smarter than Sam. I know more history, strategy and tactics. I finished higher in my class (West Point). But here's the difference. Sam don't give a damn about the guy on the other side of the hill and that just scares the hell out of me."

Those two guys knew the concept of open field running, played out over tens of thousands of square miles.​
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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I'll admit I skipped through half the threads in this post. I saw enough of the usual Ferentz loyalist garbage in the first half that I didn't need to continue.

1: Quality teams don't 'get better' as the season goes on year in and year out. Quality coaching has their team ready on week one instead of pissing away games they should have won in September.

2: This offense is still garbage. It's a damn travesty that one side of the ball can carry a team to the level that they have. Purdue was a head scratcher. Not sure what clicked that game but that was an outlier. Looking real on offense the week before was against a team that has not and will not win a game on this continent this season.

3:. You have the pieces in place to be a top ten program. The Big Ten west is weak and for the taking. Instead this program is ran like a family business where the idiot kid is the heir apparent.

We laughed when Delaney did Legends and Leaders. Seemed stupid. At it's core it was a response to the Big 12 North/South dominance. But here we are. East/West dominance. And the West is trash and the longest tenured coach in the country struggles to win the right to get trounced by the East champ and we're supposed to be glad we're close every year while his kid continues to fail on the job.
You are obviously not an Iowa fan, right. You are using the words of actual malice and hatred and portraying it as fact. You have a serious problem of cognitive dissonance if you think you are an Iowa fan.
 

mikesright

HR MVP
Jun 7, 2009
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You don't think small state population, small media market, small school, boring state, shitty weather, few accessory sales, low level social media presence and now NIL might be greater impediments to Iowa recruiting and success than Kirk Ferentz?

What is this change you feel is essential? Who is the coach you think Iowa could afford to hire, would be willing to come to Iowa, overcome all the social and demographic factors working against Iowa and guarantee greater success than KF? Every time a P5 coaching change happens people think it is for the better, but in reality, the vast majority of those new hires do not work out.

That thinking is what brought Todd Lickliter and Steve Alford to Iowa's door. Now, 23 years later Iowa still hasn't recovered its place in the BBall world.​
Go root for Iowa State. They don't believe they're any good either, and you know what, they're right.

That really is the whole key to this thing. You don't hear this type of crap from Kentucky or the Mississippi schools in the SEC. They don't accept mediocrity and that has literally raised the level of their programs especially when you compare their recent past 1990-2010 to their current ten year history.
 

PlutoDroid

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Aug 16, 2015
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There is a correct response because one is based on hope for an outcome that will never happen because Iowa will never be able to recruit at that level. That has never happened, and certainly not in the last sixty years. So, we're a top tier 2 school that sometimes does Tier 1 things. We must do more with less. There are simply too many factors working against Iowa. All of those factors are getting worse for us every year.
What would you say is the best five seasons of Iowa football in your Hawkeye rooting lifetime? Depending on your age, that question may just be the five best seasons under Ferentz. Did you feel like Iowa could have won the whole thing? How many of those five seasons would a Buckeye, Wolverine, Nittany Lion, Trojan, Husker, or Badger fan say fits above any of their top five?

I can think of two that would fit in those parameters. The 2002, and 2009 seasons come to my mind. That 2002 team was considered superior for most of the season to the eventual National Champion Buckeyes . The 2009 squad was so close to getting to that level. The 2015 squad was undefeated, but would have been smacked by Bama. I really couldn't pull two more that would fit the criteria .
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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Go root for Iowa State. They don't believe they're any good either, and you know what, they're right.

That really is the whole key to this thing. You don't hear this type of crap from Kentucky or the Mississippi schools in the SEC. They don't accept mediocrity and that has literally raised the level of their programs especially when you compare their recent past 1990-2010 to their current ten year history.
Well, there's a world of difference between the win/loss records over the past 40 years between Iowa and Iowa St. Iowa is the superior program. They got a good luck win this year but consider the difference.

You never addressed any of the many impediments to greater success than Iowa has had in the last 25 seasons. I think Iowa is a very good program. However, we are never going to be a blue blood. If you think Iowa's record in the last 10 years is "mediocre" you might as well change programs because Iowa is never going to what you want. That's why you couldn't have an answer for the problems I presented. You just wish Iowa won more and have created a fantasy world in which that should happen.
 
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ShonnDeereGreene

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Jun 8, 2022
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Today also illustrates why Iowa will never be a legitimate top ten powerhouse for the foreseeable future. What exactly has Iowa done to make fans feel like they will ever see the Hawkeyes win the B1G, let alone a playoff game? The fanbase is divided in it's expectations. Certain fans will see Iowa as a program capable of competing at the highest level. These fans will gage the programs success against the likes of Ohio State, or Michigan. On the flip side, certain fans will see being solid, and never really seeing the bottom fall out as a reason to applaud the current regime. These fans will gage the program against the likes of Minnesota, Purdue, or Northwestern.

If you see Iowa in tier one of B1G programs like Ohio State, Michigan, or soon to be USC, then Ferentz needs to go. Penn State fans see themselves in that tier. Wisconsin fans just began to see themselves in that tier. Older Nebraska fans definitely see themselves in that tier.

What tier is Iowa? No answer is wrong, it's just an opinion really. Iowa will never recruit at a tier one level. There are only three programs , soon to be four in the B1G that do. Iowa excels at getting the most out of their talent level. Kirk Ferentz is a better coach then James Franklin. He is probably better then most B1G coaches as far as development. You think Ryan Day could get more out of less? Jim Tressel was better then Ryan Day. He just didn't get the top end players ,because he was so focused on a certain region, and certain style. Ohio State is now an electric nationwide recruiting power. Their defense, and discipline are not at the level they used to be. Alabama is the same thing. They churn out top offenses, pro prospects, and just a more exciting brand of football.

Whenever Ferentz decides to hang up the whistle, the question is going to be does Iowa go outside their blueprint. It's a fool's errand to think Ferentz isn't going away on his terms. He has been too loyal, too successful , and is too respected to be sent to the glue factory. Joe Paterno was only forced out due that horrific scandal. Bobby Bowden was at Florida State, a program that sees itself as a perennial top ten program( even if they weren't before Bobby, or since). Ohio State would still likely have Jim Tressel winning nine, or ten games, but not being what they are now had the tattoo scandal never happened.

So Kirk Ferentz isn't going anywhere. You can take comfort in that, or be frustrated because you want to see Iowa look like an offensive powerhouse. Once again neither side is wrong here.
Down vote. This is wrong. Placing Penn St and USC above Iowa is not accurate unless you’re using name bias alone rather than results. Also, you incorrectly use “then” instead of “than” multiple times.
 

bigfatturkeyleg

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Go root for Iowa State. They don't believe they're any good either, and you know what, they're right.

That really is the whole key to this thing. You don't hear this type of crap from Kentucky or the Mississippi schools in the SEC. They don't accept mediocrity and that has literally raised the level of their programs especially when you compare their recent past 1990-2010 to their current ten year history.
1) I live in the south and Kentucky and Mississippi state fans do acknowledge their disadvantages.

2) Mississippi State and Kentucky have had less success then Iowa as a program since 2010. Mississippi State has had one 10 win season and finished ranked three times and Kentucky has had two 10 win seasons and finished ranked twice since 2010. Both programs have worse overall records then Iowa.

You quite literally picked the two most mediocre programs in the south to make your argument.
 

NorthDSMHawk

HR Heisman
Oct 24, 2016
6,517
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Ankeny
Gotta laugh at posters who think only their opinions are right, and call those who may think differently names.
Phil has been under Kirk for 24 years and is fiercely loyal to him. Arguing otherwise isn’t an opinion, it’s a dipshit take.

Where do you fall on that one?
 

mikesright

HR MVP
Jun 7, 2009
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Well, there's a world of difference between the win/loss records over the past 40 years between Iowa and Iowa St. Iowa is the superior program. They got a good luck win this year but consider the difference.

You never addressed any of the many impediments to greater success than Iowa has had in the last 25 seasons. I think Iowa is a very good program. However, we are never going to be a blue blood. If you think Iowa's record in the last 10 years is "mediocre" you might as well change programs because Iowa is never going to what you want. That's why you couldn't have an answer for the problems I presented. You just wish Iowa won more and have created a fantasy world in which that should happen.
I would address all the false shit you say about little ole Iowa not being able to compete but I’ve made that post about 18 different times and its getting old. Iowa has decent enough recruiting territory, makes enough football revenue, has a rabid enough fanbase, and is a rich enough school in the donor base department to where we should expect Kirk’s performance over the past 10 years to be more of a baseline than the best we can do.
 

burkyhawk

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Kirk Ferentz is the only coach who can make 10 win seasons boring.
I mean Lickliter did it in basketball, but that's a different story.
 

cmhawks99

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Jul 23, 2002
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You understand that Phil Parker is part of Iowa don't you? Iowa wins and loses as a team, all three elements. So your point is just arguing that Iowa would win less in an alternative reality where the team cannot rely on its perennially outstanding defense keeping the games close. The entire Iowa game plan has been about that for 24 years. There have been a lot of big wins in those years. Today was a big one.

That's like saying the Abe would have lost the Civil War if he didn't have Grant.

He has no foresight or cognitive thinking skills…honestly! In his mind Phil just showed up one day and started coaching. KF had nothing to do with it!
 
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ghostOfHomer777

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May 20, 2014
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Lol this thread. Putting in work. Phil Parker is the only reason we haven't been a 3-4 win team the past several years. Some of you are seriously clueless.
Iowa's offensive strategy complements our bend-but-not-break D.

If Iowa played with tempo and was more pass-happy ... then the Hawks likely have a D that gets caught on the field for even longer.

Furthermore, if Iowa played with more tempo ... there could be more possession ... which could also allow for the Hawks to dig themselves into holes.

Lastly, if Iowa DIDN'T value an offensive strategy involving balance (both in terms of running-passing) ... that could deleteriously impact either Iowa's run D or pass D. It benefits the D to be able to regularly face off against an O that attempts to execute with balance.

If you don't understand how Iowa's offensive and defensive strategies mesh ... then you, my friend, are the one who is clueless.
 

natchrlman

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Lesser coaches of better teams would have seen the wheels fall off the bus after the Ohio State game. I've been plenty critical of this coach and staff and ready to move on, but appreciation is due where it is due.

Somehow the team stayed together, kept the culture intact, and they rallied off three straight nice wins. They didn't give up and they won. That is because of the Dean of College Football coaches, the winningest coach in Iowa history, Kirk Ferentz, is there.

We didn't beat Bama or OSU, but we sacked up and beat a rival in November with plenty on the line. Someday KF will no longer be coach, and we will miss him.

Go Hawks
might be the best post of the year my friend…… very well said!
 

SBWarriorHawk

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Lesser coaches of better teams would have seen the wheels fall off the bus after the Ohio State game. I've been plenty critical of this coach and staff and ready to move on, but appreciation is due where it is due.

Somehow the team stayed together, kept the culture intact, and they rallied off three straight nice wins. They didn't give up and they won. That is because of the Dean of College Football coaches, the winningest coach in Iowa history, Kirk Ferentz, is there.

We didn't beat Bama or OSU, but we sacked up and beat a rival in November with plenty on the line. Someday KF will no longer be coach, and we will miss him.

Go Hawks
More to do with playing bad teams. The new conference will be a bear. No west division, no easy cross over games. Changes better be made.
 
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SBWarriorHawk

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What would you say is the best five seasons of Iowa football in your Hawkeye rooting lifetime? Depending on your age, that question may just be the five best seasons under Ferentz. Did you feel like Iowa could have won the whole thing? How many of those five seasons would a Buckeye, Wolverine, Nittany Lion, Trojan, Husker, or Badger fan say fits above any of their top five?

I can think of two that would fit in those parameters. The 2002, and 2009 seasons come to my mind. That 2002 team was considered superior for most of the season to the eventual National Champion Buckeyes . The 2009 squad was so close to getting to that level. The 2015 squad was undefeated, but would have been smacked by Bama. I really couldn't pull two more that would fit the criteria .
LOL. The 2015 team was smacked by Stanford. Got their asses kicked in. McCaffery could had scored 10 TDs if they had let him. 2002 was a really good team. Shame they didn't play OhioSt, at home lol. It took a really good USC team with a Heisman winner, #1 draft pick to whip them.
 

natchrlman

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Jul 10, 2003
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You don't think small state population, small media market, small school, boring state, shitty weather, few accessory sales, low level social media presence and now NIL might be greater impediments to Iowa recruiting and success than Kirk Ferentz?

What is this change you feel is essential? Who is the coach you think Iowa could afford to hire, would be willing to come to Iowa, overcome all the social and demographic factors working against Iowa and guarantee greater success than KF? Every time a P5 coaching change happens people think it is for the better, but in reality, the vast majority of those new hires do not work out.

That thinking is what brought Todd Lickliter and Steve Alford to Iowa's door. Now, 23 years later Iowa still hasn't recovered its place in the BBall world.​
Frans doing pretty good things…… we did do and deserve penance for what we did to Dr. Tom for sure

Damn Dog you’re on point tonight….. we’ve had our disagreements but you’re nailing it couldn’t agree more as far as the inherent challenges Iowa faces and the effect NIL and the portal brings into the equation

Personally and it will not surprise anyone to hear me say it…… I am convinced Kirk has done an amazing job and there’s no one better to lead the football program

Just once I’d like to see what Kirk could do with a roster like Alabama or Ohio State
 

cmhawks99

HR Legend
Jul 23, 2002
11,004
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I'll admit I skipped through half the threads in this post. I saw enough of the usual Ferentz loyalist garbage in the first half that I didn't need to continue.

1: Quality teams don't 'get better' as the season goes on year in and year out. Quality coaching has their team ready on week one instead of pissing away games they should have won in September.

2: This offense is still garbage. It's a damn travesty that one side of the ball can carry a team to the level that they have. Purdue was a head scratcher. Not sure what clicked that game but that was an outlier. Looking real on offense the week before was against a team that has not and will not win a game on this continent this season.

3:. You have the pieces in place to be a top ten program. The Big Ten west is weak and for the taking. Instead this program is ran like a family business where the idiot kid is the heir apparent.

We laughed when Delaney did Legends and Leaders. Seemed stupid. At it's core it was a response to the Big 12 North/South dominance. But here we are. East/West dominance. And the West is trash and the longest tenured coach in the country struggles to win the right to get trounced by the East champ and we're supposed to be glad we're close every year while his kid continues to fail on the job.

Give me about 15 top line coaches not of course the Nick Saban‘s of the world or urban Meyers but 15 coaches that you think Iowa could reasonably employ. I’d like to go back through their records and see if they’ve accomplished all those things that you say should happen!

Can you get them together today?
 

cmhawks99

HR Legend
Jul 23, 2002
11,004
5,397
113
Go root for Iowa State. They don't believe they're any good either, and you know what, they're right.

That really is the whole key to this thing. You don't hear this type of crap from Kentucky or the Mississippi schools in the SEC. They don't accept mediocrity and that has literally raised the level of their programs especially when you compare their recent past 1990-2010 to their current ten year history.

Well…not sure what to say here, but if you are talking about since 2011…

Iowa has the 28th best winning percentage and Kentucky is 75th, Ole Miss @ 63 and MSU @ 49th…

If you really meant last 5, Iowa @ 13th, Kentucky @ 27th, Ole Miss @ 71st & MSU @ 61….

So not sure what your saying, but Kentucky has improved (so has Iowa) and they are both 6-4 this year with Kentucky losing to Vandy last week whom I don’t believe has won a conference game in 2 or 3 years….

So I’m assuming if I’m following what you’re saying Kentucky should probably be looking for a new coach this year… Which likely will put them back to the 75th 80th range!
 

cmhawks99

HR Legend
Jul 23, 2002
11,004
5,397
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1) I live in the south and Kentucky and Mississippi state fans do acknowledge their disadvantages.

2) Mississippi State and Kentucky have had less success then Iowa as a program since 2010. Mississippi State has had one 10 win season and finished ranked three times and Kentucky has had two 10 win seasons and finished ranked twice since 2010. Both programs have worse overall records then Iowa.

You quite literally picked the two most mediocre programs in the south to make your argument.

Yeah I was baffled by the teams he picked to make his point!
 

cmhawks99

HR Legend
Jul 23, 2002
11,004
5,397
113
Gotta laugh at posters who think only their opinions are right, and call those who may think differently names.

Not at all what he means. You guys don’t have “good opinions”, it’s really that simple!
 

SI_NYC

HR MVP
Dec 15, 2001
1,989
3,255
113
Lesser coaches of better teams would have seen the wheels fall off the bus after the Ohio State game. I've been plenty critical of this coach and staff and ready to move on, but appreciation is due where it is due.

Somehow the team stayed together, kept the culture intact, and they rallied off three straight nice wins. They didn't give up and they won. That is because of the Dean of College Football coaches, the winningest coach in Iowa history, Kirk Ferentz, is there.

We didn't beat Bama or OSU, but we sacked up and beat a rival in November with plenty on the line. Someday KF will no longer be coach, and we will miss him.

Go Hawk


Kirk is a good leader. He just doesn’t have an offensive mind. He needs to bring someone in that can bring an attractive offense to Iowa and Kirk needs to stay out of the way.
 

Madhawk83

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Jun 26, 2019
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Every win is great. People like Kirk because he has won a lot of them. That said...is there something shameful about having an elite offense AND an elite defense?
The offense is horrendous and unacceptably so however having an elite offense and an elite defense is nearly impossible, hell even the elite of the elite teams rarely do it. Even Alabama's defense has slipped as the offense has become more explosive. An elite defense and a good offense is definitely doable.
 

Dauminator

HR All-American
Nov 7, 2002
4,008
705
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I love it. But the offense is still horrendous and has to change.

This defense may be one of the most dominant Iowa units I have ever seen. And they deserve a title shot.
Can we have this defense and the 2002 offense together, please? Just one year is all. Either ST unit will work.
 

Gonzo Bloor

HR All-American
Oct 13, 2016
4,534
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Iowa's offensive strategy complements our bend-but-not-break D.

If Iowa played with tempo and was more pass-happy ... then the Hawks likely have a D that gets caught on the field for even longer.

Furthermore, if Iowa played with more tempo ... there could be more possession ... which could also allow for the Hawks to dig themselves into holes.

Lastly, if Iowa DIDN'T value an offensive strategy involving balance (both in terms of running-passing) ... that could deleteriously impact either Iowa's run D or pass D. It benefits the D to be able to regularly face off against an O that attempts to execute with balance.

If you don't understand how Iowa's offensive and defensive strategies mesh ... then you, my friend, are the one who is clueless.
Yeah, like I said, our D is the reason we're not a sub .500 program the past several years. If you seriously think that PP changing our defensive scheme to something else would result in KF and BF flipping a switch and all of a sudden having a more explosive offense, lol. And we aren't nearly as much of a bend-don't-break defense in recent years as we were under Norm. Our D ranks #3 in the nation in total defense. We ain't giving up that many yards to opposing offenses, which is basically what "bend-don't-break" defenses do.
 

cmhawks99

HR Legend
Jul 23, 2002
11,004
5,397
113
Yeah, like I said, our D is the reason we're not a sub .500 program the past several years. If you seriously think that PP changing our defensive scheme to something else would result in KF and BF flipping a switch and all of a sudden having a more explosive offense, lol. And we aren't nearly as much of a bend-don't-break defense in recent years as we were under Norm. Our D ranks #3 in the nation in total defense. We ain't giving up that many yards to opposing offenses, which is basically what "bend-don't-break" defenses do.

It is fans like you that make it “ok” to me if Iowa makes a poor hirer and sets them back 20 years.

I’m ok with a new coach when it’s time, I’m hopeful we can continue moving upwards, but if we crash and burn, I’ll be happy you got what you wanted!

And I’ll gladly step away from this message board shit show!