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This Kris Murray thing is starting to color my thinking about Fran...

soybean

soybean

HR King
Sep 30, 2001
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...and not it a good way. I'm a long way from getting into "Fire Fran" mode, but his stubborn reluctance to go with what is very obviously our best starting five is starting to wear on me. Fran has been good for Iowa. Fran understands basketball much better than I do, but c'mon. Can anyone honestly argue that Kris is not at least the 2nd best player on this years team? I don't think so, and Fran's attitude on this point is beginning to trouble me.
 
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I don't think it is fair to call PMAC Summit League material. He gets punished a bit for being Connor's brother IMO.

I do agree Kris and Keegan must be who we lean on. I understand there a lot of nuances stats don't always point out but CM's stats are atrocious. I can't understand him even getting 10 minutes a game.
 
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soybean said:
...and not it a good way. I'm a long way from getting into "Fire Fran" mode, but his stubborn reluctance to go with what is very obviously our best starting five is starting to wear on me. Fran has been good for Iowa. Fran understands basketball much better than I do, but c'mon. Can anyone honestly argue that Kris is not at least the 2nd best player on this years team? I don't think so, and Fran's attitude on this point is beginning to trouble me.
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the starting/not starting isn't really the issue. It's fine if he doesn't start. What isn't fine is the playing time decisions. Specifically, the 6th year guy and Fran's oldest son get to play a lot no matter how they perform. It makes no sense.
 
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hawkeye54545 said:
I don't think it is fair to call PMAC Summit League material. He gets punished a bit for being Connor's brother IMO.

I do agree Kris and Keegan must be who we lean on. I understand there a lot of nuances stats don't always point out but CM's stats are atrocious. I can't understand him even getting 10 minutes a game.
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His offense is ok. But watch him off the ball on defense. He cherry picks, lacks toughness, doesn’t rebound, and doesn’t hustle/give 100%.
 
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soybean said:
...and not it a good way. I'm a long way from getting into "Fire Fran" mode, but his stubborn reluctance to go with what is very obviously our best starting five is starting to wear on me. Fran has been good for Iowa. Fran understands basketball much better than I do, but c'mon. Can anyone honestly argue that Kris is not at least the 2nd best player on this years team? I don't think so, and Fran's attitude on this point is beginning to trouble me.
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It’s actually caused me to check out. I’m glad to emotionally invest in an average team made up of good guys who work hard. But when the coach clearly is not doing everything to help the team succeed by playing the best players (putting his personal agenda before the team), I’d rather spend my time on other things.
 
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DodgerHawki said:
the starting/not starting isn't really the issue. It's fine if he doesn't start. What isn't fine is the playing time decisions. Specifically, the 6th year guy and Fran's oldest son get to play a lot no matter how they perform. It makes no sense.
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Both Jordan and Connor have a role to play IMHO, but Fran needs to be a bit more judicious with his rotation.
 
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bs85jd88 said:
It’s actually caused me to check out. I’m glad to emotionally invest in an average team made up of good guys who work hard. But when the coach clearly is not doing everything to help the team succeed by playing the best players (putting his personal agenda before the team), I’d rather spend my time on other things.
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OK, but the rest of us have not.
 
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hawkeye54545 said:
I don't think it is fair to call PMAC Summit League material. He gets punished a bit for being Connor's brother IMO.

I do agree Kris and Keegan must be who we lean on. I understand there a lot of nuances stats don't always point out but CM's stats are atrocious. I can't understand him even getting 10 minutes a game.
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PMAC is not Summit league material, but he certainly isn't Big Ten starting material.
 
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soybean said:
Both Jordan and Connor have a role to play IMHO, but Fran needs to be a bit more judicious with his rotation.
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Connor no longer has a role to play on the floor except in rare occasions where bodies are running low. He just doesn't provide anything except effort and that's not enough. People (especially one particular person) need to accept that and move on.
 
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jonesy5960 said:
Connor no longer has a role to play on the floor except in rare occasions where bodies are running low. He just doesn't provide anything except effort and that's not enough. People (especially one particular person) need to accept that and move on.
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This and JBO should only play in specific situations when we need a 3 or are getting fouled at the end of games.
 
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You know he fouled out of the last game right? He had 9 fouls in two games against Purdue. Obviously he had some challenges there that someone, like the coach, had to consider
 
PMac could be a fine B1G player if he added more muscle and played with more grit and heart. JBo should be coming off the bench. Connor should only see the court in mop-up duty. Kris needs to start. If he were playing for anyone else, I believe he would be. I do think Rebraca is getting better and deserves his minutes. The thing I can't help but wonder is how Fran will ever make our program a contender without fundamental rebounding, blocking out, and overall defense being played every time we step on the court.
 
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D
BIG Bick said:
PMAC is not Summit league material, but he certainly isn't Big Ten starting material.
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Disagree, he is and it’s noticeable the improvement he’s made. I’m expecting bigger and better from him this season and next. Hopefully Kris doesn’t opt out to play in the NBA( g -league), next season. Highly doubt there’s any chance Keegan is back but with Bowen and Dix, an improved Rebraca and Mulvey and Peyton Sandfort. More rope for JoeT and Perkins we’ll have a chance again for the Tournament . Without Kris , we’ll the following year might be better.
 
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His offense is decent but the difference in rebounding at the 3 spot between him and what Joe W brought last year is huge.

He actively avoids anything that could result in a foul.
ClearwaterHawkI said:
I don’t see the problem with Pmac, this really is his first year playing decent minutes on a regular basis. He has a nice shot, plays long and will improve significantly. Ulis has seem to take a step back compared to earlier in the year
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jonesy5960 said:
Connor no longer has a role to play on the floor except in rare occasions where bodies are running low. He just doesn't provide anything except effort and that's not enough. People (especially one particular person) need to accept that and move on
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Yep, the fact that opponents are just choosing to place their center in front of the basket and have no one defending Connor means he can't be on the floor anymore.

Its the consequence of playing 5 years and never developing a serviceable shot.
 
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ClearwaterHawkI said:
I don’t see the problem with Pmac, this really is his first year playing decent minutes on a regular basis. He has a nice shot, plays long and will improve significantly. Ulis has seem to take a step back compared to earlier in the year
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Pat has potential but at some point he’s got to give more. Way more. I’ve never seen a coaches kid so lost on the defensive end. He does not buy in at all. He’s a terrible rebounder and constantly lost in both man and zone. He played 14-18 minutes a game last year and has been playing AAU ball his entire life. His fundamentals are atrocious. He has shown flashes on offense but on defense he’s the worst guy we have besides JBO.
 
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littlez said:
Pat has potential but at some point he’s got to give more. Way more. I’ve never seen a coaches kid so lost on the defensive end. He does not buy in at all. He’s a terrible rebounder and constantly lost in both man and zone. He played 14-18 minutes a game last year and has been playing AAU ball his entire life. His fundamentals are atrocious. He has shown flashes on offense but on defense he’s the worst guy we have besides JBO.
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He might actually be worse than Jbo.
 
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Pat has potential , agreed. How well he can reach all that potential is a big question. Also agreed. If he continues to improve as much as last year to this , works at it as best he is able. I think He can make money playing basketball but he’s got work to do in all area’s. Still if you don’t see the possibility of this I think you’re looking at it through lenses of don’t like his dad or brother. I get it , Fran’s decisions on who plays with who, how much and how long frustrate me as much as anyone. PMac isn’t likely to make any B1G list this season but I’d expect him to next year. So far only B1G recognition list this season for a Hawkeye is Keegan. Could Kris as 6th man ? Not likely but still a lot of basketball to be played yet
 
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I think Pat had made a lot of improvement this year. Shot selection is much better than it was and his 3 point shot looks good. He’s a great ball handler for his size and passes well. Looks good on the point of the press. Also an atrocious rebounder and defender, but getting better.

Point being, Patrick has a lot of room to improve and therefore I think deserves his playing time.

Others on the team we know won’t improve anymore and should see therir time substantially decreased.
 
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Here's a thought, not a new one. Been around since the Celtics in the 50s.

Sometimes you have a guy, usually multitalented and a real hustler that comes off the bench. Jon Havlicek in the 60s for example. They immediately change the game when they hit the floor. The hit the defense just as the starters start to get a little tired. They exploit mismatches. They overwhelm the opponent's bench players. They can fill multiple positions.

That also minimizes the risk of both Kris and Keegan getting in foul trouble, like the targeted fouls Friday.

There may be, pure conjecture, other reasons. Kris has had some poor games where he's looked either sick or otherwise kind of out of the game. I'll bet the coaches know.

I join the criticism of Connor's minutes, however. Kris gets starters floor time and I don't think he's taking many of Kris' minutes.
 
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hawkeye54545 said:
I don't think it is fair to call PMAC Summit League material. He gets punished a bit for being Connor's brother IMO.

I do agree Kris and Keegan must be who we lean on. I understand there a lot of nuances stats don't always point out but CM's stats are atrocious. I can't understand him even getting 10 minutes a game.
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Not picking on you but I find posters on here hilarious.

When Kris and Keegan signed with Iowa, everyone was outraged. After all, Rivals had not even rated them yet! They had no D1 offers coming out of high school! Most said Fran was an idiot and some said he should be fired on the spot for signing the Murray twins!

As it turns out, it was our fans who were the idiots when it came to the Murray twins. Fran looks like a genius for signing Keegan and Kris and instead of being outraged about them being at Iowa, we now must lean on them!!! I mean, seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.

And Iowa fans can't be outraged about how many players Fran plays because he basically is only playing 9. So, in order to be outraged about something, the outrage now is about who starts and how many minutes everyone should be playing. Fans were WRONG about the Murrays coming to Iowa so maybe they are now CORRECT about who starts and how many minutes everyone should play???

If there is one thing we can count on from Iowa fans is that they are wrong just as much as they are right and that they are OUTRAGED about something.

Sure, I think Kris should play more but there is nothing I can do about that or the 9 man rotation; that's the coaching staff's job and they know way more that any of us "experts."

And we all need a reality check. I knew coming into the season that we would be an average team and that outside shooting was a big concern. We ALL should have known that. Well, guess what? We are indeed an average team and we have been terrible from the outside.

Any way, sorry to interrupt. Please carry on with your outrage.
 
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Franisdaman said:
Not picking on you but I find posters on here hilarious.

When Kris and Keegan signed with Iowa, everyone was outraged. After all, Rivals had not even rated them yet! They had no D1 offers coming out of high school! Most said Fran was an idiot and some said he should be fired on the spot for signing the Murray twins!

As it turns out, it was our fans who were the idiots when it came to the Murray twins. Fran looks like a genius for signing Keegan and Kris and instead of being outraged about them being at Iowa, we now must lean on them!!! I mean, seriously, you cannot make this stuff up.

And Iowa fans can't be outraged about how many players Fran plays because he basically is only playing 9. So, in order to be outraged about something, the outrage now is about who starts and how many minutes everyone should be playing. Fans were WRONG about the Murrays coming to Iowa so maybe they are now CORRECT about who starts and how many minutes everyone should play???

If there is one thing we can count on from Iowa fans is that wrong just as much as they are right and they are OUTRAGED about something.

Sure, I think Kris should play more but there is nothing I can do about that or the 9 man rotation; that's the coaching staff's job and they know way more that any of us "experts."

And we all need a reality check. I knew coming into the season that we would be an average team and that outside shooting was a big concern. We ALL should have known that. Well, guess what? We are indeed an average team and we have been terrible from the outside.

Any way, sorry to interrupt. Please carry on with your outrage.
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So enlightened. Thank you for allowing me to share this board with you.
 
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The Deplorable Sleeping Dog said:
Here's a thought, not a new one. Been around since the Celtics in the 50s.

Sometimes you have a guy, usually multitalented and a real hustler that comes off the bench. Jon Havlicek in the 60s for example. They immediately change the game when they hit the floor. The hit the defense just as the starters start to get a little tired. They exploit mismatches. They overwhelm the opponent's bench players. They can fill multiple positions.

That also minimizes the risk of both Kris and Keegan getting in foul trouble, like the targeted fouls Friday.

There may be, pure conjecture, other reasons. Kris has had some poor games where he's looked either sick or otherwise kind of out of the game. I'll bet the coaches know.

I join the criticism of Connor's minutes, however. Kris gets starters floor time and I don't think he's taking many of Kris' minutes.
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Still doesn't explain Patrick getting 40% more play. That's crazy. Hell cmac gets about as many minutes as Kris.
 
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I just want to know why PMac and Rebraca are playing more than Kris? Just a simple question.

Play your best players the most? Every statistic backs that yet 0 explanation why Kris literally didn’t touch the floor the first 10 minutes against Purdue. maybe I’m off by a few minutes, and I get the 6th man/Celtics examples…. But play him more minutes FOR **** SAKE!
 
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I am not sure why this surprises anyone. Fran has always played his guys, whoever those guys are, at the expense of others. Keegan was a bit player for half or more of the season last year. Kris barely saw the floor. Ulis and Perkins played very little--only when Iowa needed better athletes on the floor to apply pressure. CJ, Jbo and Connor played, despite all 3 having nagging injuries, that Fran conveniently told us about after the Oregon drubbing.

As far as Keegan and Kris, @Franisdaman did his usual smear campaign implying everyone was outraged when they were offered. Go back and read my posts (and others) who watched their games in Florida and said nothing but positive things about them.

I have no issue with Pmac. He is figuring things out and will get better. He was the lone bright spot in the first half against Purdue. Connor is another story. It's a complete joke that he gets the PT he does. Ash and Laketa are better option and this is not hyperbole-both are about 500 times more likely to make a shot than Connor and would require a defender to stay in the same zip code.

Fran has had enough time at Iowa. He is a mediocre coach and recruiter who thinks it's about him, not the program. He has no clue how to assemble a team and that starts with guard play. The back court of Jbo and Joe T. is anemic and that is being kind. We were told Rebraca was a dynamic scorer with an inside-outside game out to the 3-point line. The kid plays his ass off, but he isn't a starting 5 at the P5 level, except in Fran's head. Josh gets virtually no PT and instead of going to the portal, Fran has Mulvey reclassify to ride the pine. Does anyone see either contributing next year? I don't.

As much as I love Iowa hoops, Fran has me to the point of not watching and I will not attend another game until he is gone. Call me what you will, but Fran has tied Alford as my most despised Iowa coach of all time (and it's only January, so Fran might actually win something).
 
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