This staff & defensive recruiting…

cmhawks99

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This staff is beyond repute when it comes to signing defensive talent. Yes Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State a handful of other schools sign higher ranked talent and have just as good a defenses and have way more first round pics but holy crap does this staff know no talent as it pertains to defense….

This current defense is sick with talent & much of it was identified way early on and they still ended up as 5.7 rated three star recruits.

When I hear early musings suggesting Graves will be hard to keep off the field and Max Llewellyn is tearing it up with all the people in front of those guys holy crap!!

Defensive back has been the same for six or seven years.

Offense is a little more hit and miss. It does appear we are signing higher quality running backs & our wide receiving recruiting has improved a little bit, but can we keep them, and although we’ve had better TE recruiting as far as star ranking, has been better in the past, but they do continue to seem like they are high end recruits that were just missed or under evaluated. Interestingly enough our “rankings“ as far as our offensive line recruiting goes has also spiked, yet…

…our quarterback consistency and our offensive line consistency has really hurt us.

Im not naïve to the fact that our offense has really plagued us. But it is remarkable our ability to identify the talent on defense at every level!!
 
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hawkguy90

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Oct 29, 2003
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iowa has been suffering from poor red zone offense. The resurgence in OL recruiting is going to help there. We have some kids now who if they work hard and avoid injuries can contribute early. there was a window after bulaga where the four star OL was not in our classes, we had to develop that guy. Having top end alums like schreff and wirfs helps. I’m hoping but this year I don’t see three yard losses happening on 1st and goal like last season.
 

DogBoyRy

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This staff is beyond repute when it comes to signing defensive talent. Yes Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State a handful of other schools sign higher ranked talent and have just as good a defenses and have way more first round pics but holy crap does this staff know no talent as it pertains to defense….

This current defense is sick with talent & much of it was identified way early on and they still ended up as 5.7 rated three star recruits.

When I hear early musings suggesting Graves will be hard to keep off the field and Max Llewellyn is tearing it up with all the people in front of those guys holy crap!!

Defensive back has been the same for six or seven years.

Offense is a little more hit and miss. It does appear we are signing higher quality running backs & our wide receiving recruiting has improved a little bit, but can we keep them, and although we’ve had better TE recruiting as far as star ranking, has been better in the past, but they do continue to seem like they are high end recruits that were just missed or under evaluated. Interestingly enough our “rankings“ as far as our offensive line recruiting goes has also spiked, yet…

…our quarterback consistency and our offensive line consistency has really hurt us.

Im not naïve to the fact that our offense has really plagued us. But it is remarkable our ability to identify the talent on defense at every level!!
Been told the defensive side talent reminds coaches of 2009 which was loaded with NFL talent in the two deeps.
15-20 guys on that side will cash NFL checks someday. Not many first day guys but loads of second and third day guys.
 

MWardT

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It's all about where they put their emphasis in recruiting. There's a reason why Iowa's strength is always OL and DL - because they place emphasis on it in recruiting and sign 4-5 OL and 4-5 DL each year. There isn't an emphasis on WR, which is why they sign 1-2 WR each year and end up having to play freshmen at the position often.
 

ellobo

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Jul 30, 2002
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This staff is beyond repute when it comes to signing defensive talent. Yes Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State a handful of other schools sign higher ranked talent and have just as good a defenses and have way more first round pics but holy crap does this staff know no talent as it pertains to defense….

This current defense is sick with talent & much of it was identified way early on and they still ended up as 5.7 rated three star recruits.

When I hear early musings suggesting Graves will be hard to keep off the field and Max Llewellyn is tearing it up with all the people in front of those guys holy crap!!

Defensive back has been the same for six or seven years.

Offense is a little more hit and miss. It does appear we are signing higher quality running backs & our wide receiving recruiting has improved a little bit, but can we keep them, and although we’ve had better TE recruiting as far as star ranking, has been better in the past, but they do continue to seem like they are high end recruits that were just missed or under evaluated. Interestingly enough our “rankings“ as far as our offensive line recruiting goes has also spiked, yet…

…our quarterback consistency and our offensive line consistency has really hurt us.

Im not naïve to the fact that our offense has really plagued us. But it is remarkable our ability to identify the talent on defense at every level!!
I don't remember the quote verbatim...but Hayden Fry once said something like "Our first 22 can play with anyone in the country...it's our next 22 that are the issue..."

From my observations, over the years, Iowa finds and develops talent as well if not better than anyone. It's impressive.

However, it's the depth of the roster that still plagues you whether that is the next 22 or the last few pieces you need in the first 22
 

cmhawks99

HR Heisman
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I don't remember the quote verbatim...but Hayden Fry once said something like "Our first 22 can play with anyone in the country...it's our next 22 that are the issue..."

From my observations, over the years, Iowa finds and develops talent as well if not better than anyone. It's impressive.

However, it's the depth of the roster that still plagues you whether that is the next 22 or the last few pieces you need in the first 22

It was Hayden and it was and has been a somewhat true.But that’s essentially my point now on defense. Year after year now we replace NFL talent on defense with more NFL talent, meaning our 2-deep talent on defense is pretty damn good!
 

coorsoriginal02

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I don't remember the quote verbatim...but Hayden Fry once said something like "Our first 22 can play with anyone in the country...it's our next 22 that are the issue..."

From my observations, over the years, Iowa finds and develops talent as well if not better than anyone. It's impressive.

However, it's the depth of the roster that still plagues you whether that is the next 22 or the last few pieces you need in the first 22
It's this (and often terrible / pu**y play-calling). We can't seem to put together a complete OL as there's always a stud and then a glaring weakness next to him etc. etc. and on top of that, QBs that aren't good enough / athletic enough to compensate for imperfect blocking. So, to your point, always those few pieces missing.

As mentioned above, our D should be BEYOND stout once again - as expected (Phil is God). On the flip side, there's no way the offense doesn't improve, right? If the OL takes a step forward, Spencer might actually be average, which means we may have another above average season considering the more difficult schedule. Very much hope so, as we all are.

What I actually think plays out this year is the "norm" - interceptions, punting, and darn good field-goal kicking will help us squeeze out 8 or 9 wins.
 

RomanHawk

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This staff is beyond repute when it comes to signing defensive talent. Yes Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State a handful of other schools sign higher ranked talent and have just as good a defenses and have way more first round pics but holy crap does this staff know no talent as it pertains to defense….

This current defense is sick with talent & much of it was identified way early on and they still ended up as 5.7 rated three star recruits.

When I hear early musings suggesting Graves will be hard to keep off the field and Max Llewellyn is tearing it up with all the people in front of those guys holy crap!!

Defensive back has been the same for six or seven years.

Offense is a little more hit and miss. It does appear we are signing higher quality running backs & our wide receiving recruiting has improved a little bit, but can we keep them, and although we’ve had better TE recruiting as far as star ranking, has been better in the past, but they do continue to seem like they are high end recruits that were just missed or under evaluated. Interestingly enough our “rankings“ as far as our offensive line recruiting goes has also spiked, yet…

…our quarterback consistency and our offensive line consistency has really hurt us.

Im not naïve to the fact that our offense has really plagued us. But it is remarkable our ability to identify the talent on defense at every level!!
IMO, the difference between our defensive and offensive recruiting can be clearly explained by 2 factors.

First, good players are attracted to good teams. Our defenses have been good. But our pathetic offenses have cost us decisions by a number of good offensive recruits in recent years and failed to even get the interest of untold others.

Secondly, there have been a large number of mistakes and "settling" for recruits on offense. In a recent thread there was a list of maybe a dozen OL recruits in the last few years who became non-contributors. There were reasons in a few cases, but frankly in most cases they were clearly "reaches" rather than having been the result of a comprehensive national recruiting effort.
 

Johnsoda123

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I don't remember the quote verbatim...but Hayden Fry once said something like "Our first 22 can play with anyone in the country...it's our next 22 that are the issue..."

From my observations, over the years, Iowa finds and develops talent as well if not better than anyone. It's impressive.

However, it's the depth of the roster that still plagues you whether that is the next 22 or the last few pieces you need in the first 22
I agree with this 100%. It is what separates Alabama and Ohio State from the rest of college football. Quality depth. I'm really intrigued by this Iowa roster on defense. There are guys in the pipeline that I think, wow, what if these guys are NFL caliber. Castro, Pittman, Sullivan, Bowie, Crawford, Allan. And that's after KF stole Liddle and Jones. Someone mentioned the 2009 defense. We can hope.
 

wcbtee

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I agree with this 100%. It is what separates Alabama and Ohio State from the rest of college football. Quality depth. I'm really intrigued by this Iowa roster on defense. There are guys in the pipeline that I think, wow, what if these guys are NFL caliber. Castro, Pittman, Sullivan, Bowie, Crawford, Allan. And that's after KF stole Liddle and Jones. Someone mentioned the 2009 defense. We can hope.
That and the superstar receivers & cb’s they recruit, OSU regularly has 4-6 superstars in each class that we don’t have At those two positions.
 
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cmhawks99

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That and the superstar receivers & cb’s they recruit, OSU regularly has 4-6 superstars in each class that we don’t have At those two positions.

with that said I’m pretty pleased with our D-back production over the last 10+ years I mean what we had four or five defensive backs of the year… But wide receiver running back & quarterback yeah we’re not even on the list
 

Hawk_4shur

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It's all about where they put their emphasis in recruiting. There's a reason why Iowa's strength is always OL and DL - because they place emphasis on it in recruiting and sign 4-5 OL and 4-5 DL each year. There isn't an emphasis on WR, which is why they sign 1-2 WR each year and end up having to play freshmen at the position often.
Well, it about math to a large extent. Five OL's play on every play. Four DL's play on every play. Two WR's, or even 1 - are in the game on every play.
 

cmhawks99

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Well, it about math to a large extent. Five OL's play on every play. Four DL's play on every play. Two WR's, or even 1 - are in the game on every play.

Agreed but the premise for me is we’re not missing a lot on these defensive guys even those that end up leaving the program have made an impact and then go elsewhere and still play decent….

People outside of Iowa city have no ****ing clue we have 47 kids on rosters in the NFL right now 23 or four of them defensive players… our defenses is legit two and three deep, offense is a totally different story!
 
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natchrlman

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Agreed but the premise for me is we’re not missing a lot on these defensive guys even those that end up leaving the program have made an impact and then go elsewhere and still play decent….

People outside of Iowa city have no ****ing clue we have 47 kids on rosters in the NFL right now 23 or four of them defensive players… our defenses is legit two and three deep, offense is a totally different story!
I think oline play will be better this year….. we have a hell of a stable of RBs…..We need better QB play and I hope Spencer can get it together cause I’m pretty sure he’s going to be the guy

I don’t like criticizing any of our players but we all know we need better QB play….. would love for Petras to play well…… he’s taken enough abuse social media wise….. you know he’s got to be motivated to shut people up…..hope he does because we could be really good with even average QB play
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

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It's this (and often terrible / pu**y play-calling). We can't seem to put together a complete OL as there's always a stud and then a glaring weakness next to him etc. etc. and on top of that, QBs that aren't good enough / athletic enough to compensate for imperfect blocking. So, to your point, always those few pieces missing.

That's been true off and on for a few seasons. But Iowa has recruited a lot of talented linemen in the last three seasons. This line should be pretty good before the season is over with quality starters and the best bench we've had in several years. Next season that depth and talent gets even better.
 

ghostOfHomer777

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I look for a few bumps on the road at S and CASH this season ... but the bumps could be more like what we observed in '08. That year, even though Sash was a first-year starter ... the guy just made plays (and was a huge upgrade for us from the prior season).

However, the rest of the D appears pretty rock solid. The DL should be improved ... I'm totally excited about our top 4 LBs ... and the play of our starting CBs could be quite good.
 
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kceasthawk

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That and the superstar receivers & cb’s they recruit, OSU regularly has 4-6 superstars in each class that we don’t have At those two positions.
At WR yes, but DB, ah NO. Iowa has had the DB of the year award winner like 4 of the last 5 years or something.
 
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cidhawkeye

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Agreed but the premise for me is we’re not missing a lot on these defensive guys even those that end up leaving the program have made an impact and then go elsewhere and still play decent….

People outside of Iowa city have no ****ing clue we have 47 kids on rosters in the NFL right now 23 or four of them defensive players… our defenses is legit two and three deep, offense is a totally different story!
23 or 24 of 47 are on defense in the NFL?
 

Crazy Hawk

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....our wide receiving recruiting has improved a little bit, but can we keep them...

I'd say our receiving recruiting has improved leaps and bound each year. The ones leaving are the ones who were good enough to play before/early on under Copeland. Now they've been recruited over.

Copeland showed a stat at a coaching clinic after last season and Tracy graded out below the young guys. He excelled being the third plus option....when it came his turn to shine he couldn't do it. The young guys did. Which is why Tracy is now gone.
 

CarolinaHawkeye

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Agreed but the premise for me is we’re not missing a lot on these defensive guys even those that end up leaving the program have made an impact and then go elsewhere and still play decent….

People outside of Iowa city have no ****ing clue we have 47 kids on rosters in the NFL right now 23 or four of them defensive players… our defenses is legit two and three deep, offense is a totally different story!
So, we have 47 young men on NFL rosters and approximately half of them are defensive but our defense and offense are totally different stories? Somehow, the math doesn't seem to work out.
 
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cmhawks99

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So, we have 47 young men on NFL rosters and approximately half of them are defensive but our defense and offense are totally different stories? Somehow, the math doesn't seem to work out.

The rest are predominantly OLs, & TEs… where we also recruit well! Conversely Oklahoma who always signs pretty high ranked classes aren’t nearly adept at identifying defensive talent as us.

They have something like 43 total NFLers and 14ish are on defense.
 
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cidhawkeye

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The rest are predominantly OLs, & TEs… where we also recruit well! Conversely Oklahoma who always signs pretty high ranked classes aren’t nearly adept at identifying defensive talent as us.

They have something like 43 total NFLers and 14ish are on defense.
They recruit and develop on both sides. The numbers support it.
 
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obfuscating

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So, we have 47 young men on NFL rosters and approximately half of them are defensive but our defense and offense are totally different stories? Somehow, the math doesn't seem to work out.
How many offensive skill players do we have in the NFL? That says a lot. Most of the offense in the NFL is OL and TE, zero RB's, zero QB's (that even sniff the field), 1 WR...
 

jonesy5960

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I'd say our receiving recruiting has improved leaps and bound each year. The ones leaving are the ones who were good enough to play before/early on under Copeland. Now they've been recruited over.

Copeland showed a stat at a coaching clinic after last season and Tracy graded out below the young guys. He excelled being the third plus option....when it came his turn to shine he couldn't do it. The young guys did. Which is why Tracy is now gone.
I'd like to believe this but the wide receiver corps wasn't very good last year. Hopefully they're improved this year.
 

hawkguy77

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I'd like to believe this but the wide receiver corps wasn't very good last year. Hopefully they're improved this year.
It is hard to tell how good the receiving corps might be when the OL can't keep the pocket clean and the QB has little elusiveness. I am hoping for improvement in both those areas.
 
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jonesy5960

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It is hard to tell how good the receiving corps might be when the OL can't keep the pocket clean and the QB has little elusiveness. I am hoping for improvement in both those areas.
Plenty of issues last year on that side of the ball. The receivers were the ones dropping all of the passes however. Worst year for drops in many years.
 

cmhawks99

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Plenty of issues last year on that side of the ball. The receivers were the ones dropping all of the passes however. Worst year for drops in many years.

going back to maybe 2006 2007-ish? Tate dealt with plenty of dropped balls himself.
 
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uihawk82

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That and the superstar receivers & cb’s they recruit, OSU regularly has 4-6 superstars in each class that we don’t have At those two positions.

Yep, last season OSU had 4 amazing receivers the likes of which Kirk F has never had.
 
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uihawk82

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Been told the defensive side talent reminds coaches of 2009 which was loaded with NFL talent in the two deeps.
15-20 guys on that side will cash NFL checks someday. Not many first day guys but loads of second and third day guys.

The 2008 team was super dangerous the last half of that season and it carried over to 2009. The defense Norm and his team did in the Orange Bowl was amazing.
 

cmhawks99

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Yep, last season OSU had 4 amazing receivers the likes of which Kirk F has never had.

Nor will or have ever had (meaning at any time)! And tOSU always has 2 guys we’ll never have and 10 guys as good as ANY we have had…
 

kceasthawk

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How many offensive skill players do we have in the NFL? That says a lot. Most of the offense in the NFL is OL and TE, zero RB's, zero QB's (that even sniff the field), 1 WR...
So Beathard starting multiple games means, "hasn't sniffed the field"? I think he'd have started more if he could stay healthy. As for Zero RB's, Greene had a run for a few years, injuries also. I believe Sarge is on a roster and is playing some. Goodson is a FA with the Packers but he'll probably struggle to make the team. I think you may see some guys on the current roster make it, but we'll see...
 
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lakeguy641

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Nor will or have ever had (meaning at any time)! And tOSU always has 2 guys we’ll never have and 10 guys as good as ANY we have had…
Yep, last season OSU had 4 amazing receivers the likes of which Kirk F has never had.
Well considering they just had three of the top nine wide receivers in the country commit a few weeks ago. That might have something to do with it
 
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uihawk82

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Your solution?

One solution is to really open up the offense and throw the ball all over the place especially to WRs. Almost always have 3 wideouts in the game. But that is almost never going to happen.

So, the hawks need and Oline and a really good running game averaging 4 to 4.5+ ypc, and throw off schedule to the wideouts to keep the defense from packing the LOS, and of course we will have great tight ends who can block and catch. We have known this for 23 years.

It is the way it has been done and I do not see it changing and we will not have a lot of stellar wideouts at Iowa. As it has turned out DJK, TSmith, McNutt were very good B+ to A- receivers but not all americans.

I expect to see a healthy dose of the run game in the 3 non conf games to see if the Oline can control the LOS, push teams down the field, wear them out and control the games.
 

obfuscating

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So Beathard starting multiple games means, "hasn't sniffed the field"? I think he'd have started more if he could stay healthy. As for Zero RB's, Greene had a run for a few years, injuries also. I believe Sarge is on a roster and is playing some. Goodson is a FA with the Packers but he'll probably struggle to make the team. I think you may see some guys on the current roster make it, but we'll see...
And Beathard hasn't seen the field since (for any significant time), I think he deserves a shot but the "Pro's" don't see it my way.. ;)

I thought we were talking current players, that contribute as starters.
 

kceasthawk

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And Beathard hasn't seen the field since (for any significant time), I think he deserves a shot but the "Pro's" don't see it my way.. ;)

I thought we were talking current players, that contribute as starters.
I'm sorry but CJ is most certainly a current player. He's on a roster and getting paid, and he's one injury from starting in the league, and he's started games. I don't see how you can call that, "not sniffing the field". Sarge played some last season for the Raiders I believe, so again, he's certainly had a sniff......
 

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