Good post. I agree with your sentiment. I think there is a place for CMac in the rotation in limited minutes.
Thoughts from Friday's game
- Thread starter Ihawkhoops
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Box +/- is largely dependent on who is on the floor with you in a given game, and is really only a good metric to use with a large sample size without additional context. Wieskamp started 35 games alongside Garza, Cook, Moss, and Bohannon his freshman year. Sandfort is currently getting minutes alongside Ulis, Perkins, CMac, Ogundele, Mulvey, and Ash.
Wieskamp was a top 3 player on that team, which I don’t expect Sandfort to be on this team, but Payton also doesn’t need to be. He needs to come in off the bench, hit threes, and play respectable defense. I expect his Box +/- will be a lot closer to Joe’s by the end of the season than it is now
I’m anointing myself as more knowledgeable than some people on this board. I played basketball my whole life on some pretty good teams with and against D1 players. So yeah, I have an understanding that some don’t from the vantage point of playing on a good basketball team and what goes into that. I know full well there are plenty of people on here that never played at all or any sort of organized or competitive basketball (especially through HS and AAU).
It’s the same thing with the football board - people just assume it’s so simple and Iowa somehow has more talent than everyone else and wants it more and if Iowa doesn’t win it has to be because the coaches are horrible or blame one player. It’s usually way more complicated than that.
That being said, I’m not naive enough to believe there aren’t some here that have as much or more knowledge than me through playing or coaching.
And with the Oregon game, can’t it just be Oregon was a really bad match-up for Iowa? Iowa had a very good team but they weren’t infallible. You act as if way better and more talented teams than that Iowa team don’t get beat in the NCAA Tournament every year. It happens quite often to teams that have tons of NBA talent and McDonald’s AA’s and supposedly great coaches. Iowa had 2 fringe NBA guys. Illinois had supposedly way more talent and a great coach and lost to a mid-major in the 2nd round. Duke a few years ago had 2 of the top 3 picks in NBA draft plus tons of 4 and 5 stars and what everyone feels is one of the best coaches ever and couldn’t even make the Final Four.
People have mostly made up their minds about CMac, and I don't expect to change that. I do think that the critics should remember that he was playing hurt all last year, and never played close to as well as the prior year, when he was one of the team leaders on the court. CMac seems to be gladly taking a smaller role this year, and is still a team leader, which is more important than some realize. I'm glad he is on the team, and IMO the garbage that he only plays because he is Fran's son needs to stop.
I don’t think it’s a terrible comparison. It’s pretty early to be making big predictions on what kind of year sandfort will have given the level of competition the first 2 games. But i do think he’ll make an impact this year, there’s always a place for a 6’7 guy that is a knockdown shooter. His athleticism isn’t close to joe’s, but I think he’s a better passer and it seems is pretty crafty in getting himself open. One small knock on weezy was it seemed to either be a 3 or a hard drive to the rack. Not much of a pull up game, nor a drive and dish game. Appears sandfort may be better at those two aspects, but again still really early and against poor competition.
If he’s coming in for jbo playing the 2 he’ll be a tough matchup for the other team, but he may have trouble defending on the other end. I will enjoy watching him progress through the year and I think he will make some big shots for us.
Thats where I'm at.
Connor isn't a bad player but he's limited because of the lack of a shot and there's guys that have much higher ceilings that should be getting experience now. Kris, Ulis and Sandfort.
Theres going to be a trade off of more mistakes but if this team has a chance to be good in February those guys will have to be major contributers IMO.
It's not a great comparison because as you said Joe is significantly more athletic but Sandfort may have a better feel for the game in terms of spacing and how to get his shot off.
Joe was so dominant in High-school he didn't have to learn how to be crafty.
Sandfort looks more like a post injury Robbie Hummel to me.
I have not read any recent posts claiming CMac only gets PT because of his last name. I have never penned such a thread, nor will I. Connor adds value, but how much is what seems to be the hot button item. The pro-Connor crowd points to assist to turnover ratio, his savvy passing, and being a "coach on the floor". No debate from me.
If you are going to cite intangibles, then I believe you also should look at the tangibles. He is an average defender, is not a threat to drive, turns down open shots, and is a poor shooter (27% from 3 and 62% from the line). 3.6 APG is solid, but does that offset playing 4 on 5 offensively? How much of an impact does his defender sagging to help on others have?
Fran has told us that Connor is going to showcase his new and improved shot and will look to score. I hope so because the team needs his intangibles and tangibles to have a shot at the tournament. Iowa had a loaded veteran team last year and did not compete for a big ten title or avoid the woodshed in the second round of the tournament. This year's team is not loaded and will need guys capable of knocking down shots so it's not all on Jbo and Keegan.
If you are going to cite intangibles, then I believe you also should look at the tangibles. He is an average defender, is not a threat to drive, turns down open shots, and is a poor shooter (27% from 3 and 62% from the line). 3.6 APG is solid, but does that offset playing 4 on 5 offensively? How much of an impact does his defender sagging to help on others have?
Fran has told us that Connor is going to showcase his new and improved shot and will look to score. I hope so because the team needs his intangibles and tangibles to have a shot at the tournament. Iowa had a loaded veteran team last year and did not compete for a big ten title or avoid the woodshed in the second round of the tournament. This year's team is not loaded and will need guys capable of knocking down shots so it's not all on Jbo and Keegan.
I think that Connor is going to help the team a lot more this year off the bench 1) to help steady the less experienced players 2) because he’ll be facing other teams’ backups who are more apt to be out of position defensively, so he can make them pay with his passing ability and 3) because he’s supposedly healthy.
If he can get his FT% up and shoot threes at a 34-35% clip, he’ll more than justify his minutes
I think that is a pretty good analysis....I think that (offset 4 on 5 on offense?) is slightly overly negative....that is often times where his assists come into play and I think that last night vs NCCU we saw that calming and assertive presence....and his defense was pretty good.
The play-by-play announcers will hate you for this idea!
I like Payton's game more than I initially thought. He's a kid that is better than his HS video. That's a good sign of a player developing faster than most of the fanbase thought would happen.
If Payton plays the 2 (ish) position at Iowa he will be able to victimize smaller defenders in post-up plays, or just shoot over smaller players when those opportunities present themselves. The leftie hook is going to be very hard for a smaller player to stop.
If Payton plays the 2 (ish) position at Iowa he will be able to victimize smaller defenders in post-up plays, or just shoot over smaller players when those opportunities present themselves. The leftie hook is going to be very hard for a smaller player to stop.
Hes really good at getting clean shots off in a variety of ways.
Thats its own skill separate from shooting.
He knows where to be in relation to the ball handler and being 6'7 is a huge advantage.
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