Toussaint was broken

BBHawk

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Bakari was a grad transfer, right? Joe T was a true freshman.

Again, the potential was there.
Joe only played because JoBo was out. Joe flashed at times (as he did all through his career) but he was very inconsistent. Look at the box scores if you don’t believe me. He finished the year averaging .9 more assists than turnovers - 2.9/2.0. Joe got his steals but he also gave up easy buckets by getting out of position.
What kills me is that Joe has the talent and potential - he doesn't have the mental part of the game down. If he ever learns to rein it in, he could be a good D1 player. But I don't see him having the potential of Dasonte, for example. And I am pretty sure that's why he left.
 

DodgerHawki

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JFC, besides the wins vs losses and the play on the floor getting better, what maesure do you use???? I wish Joe well, too, but he wasn't playing consistently well with Iowa and it wasn't because the coaches didn't try to play him.
Yeah what exactly is the big deal here? Iowa was better with Toussaint playing fewer minutes. He wanted to go to a place where he could play more. Good for him. Appreciate his effort while he was a Hawk. Best of luck to him at his new team. Fran didn't screw him over or ruin him.
 

IllQChawk

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Nice interview. Joe had 8 points in their opening exhibition game I believe. He makes comments in this interview about finally having a coach that has confidence in him which confirms everything we suspected. He had a short leash and wasn't allowed to play his game. I hope he has a big year.
Going to West Virginia's website, Joe was 3 of 6 and 1 of 3 from the 3 point line....in my book that's only 7 points, still he played 25 minutes, so that is probably more then he would have played if he had stayed at Iowa. Good for him. West Virginia has never been a high scoring team with coach Bob Huggins, so being a quick defensive minded guard WVU is probably a good place to play out his college career.
 

DanHawkPella

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Nice interview. Joe had 8 points in their opening exhibition game I believe. He makes comments in this interview about finally having a coach that has confidence in him which confirms everything we suspected. He had a short leash and wasn't allowed to play his game. I hope he has a big year.

He wasn’t allowed to play his game because his game was very inefficient. He couldn’t shoot and turned the ball over. The advanced stats showed that each year he was here. Love him as a person but Fran used him as much as he should have, and no more.

WV will put up with worse efficiency because they try to make up for it with defense and athleticism. Hope he kills it there but don’t imply Iowa treated him unfairly.
 

2432Hawk

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JFC, besides the wins vs losses and the play on the floor getting better, what maesure do you use???? I wish Joe well, too, but he wasn't playing consistently well with Iowa and it wasn't because the coaches didn't try to play him.
Did you not watch the BigTen Semifinals or Championship games?

Joe's defense was vital in both games.

Jfc people here are ****ing morons
 

2432Hawk

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JFC it was more than Joe. The team play won it, not Joe. Joe contributed to the wins but he was not alone.

Again, if he’s happy, that's great. But I don't care.
Did I say he won it alone? No....that his play was vital to the TEAM success

You don't have to be a starter to impact games.
 
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Steve Waite

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We won plenty "of shit" when Joe got benched in early February. We won 12 of our final 15 games, to be exact.

Funny you bring up the Richmond game, thinking that Joe coming off the bench and Iowa not playing defense is what caused that loss. Our Defense only gave up 67 points to Richmond. The problem in that game, of course, was our shooting. Minus Patrick, the team shot 9% (2-22) from 3. Overall, we were 6-29 (21%) from 3 and 24-66 (36%) overall. And we still only lost by 4 points.

3 point shooting vs Richmond
4-7 (57%) Patrick
2-22 (9%) Rest of team
Be careful facts get in the way of feelings!
 
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Kabby

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JFC, besides the wins vs losses and the play on the floor getting better, what maesure do you use???? I wish Joe well, too, but he wasn't playing consistently well with Iowa and it wasn't because the coaches didn't try to play him.
he was a turnover machine. If he does the at WV Huggy ain't going to play him either.
 

WestCoastHawkI

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Hes a great guy to bring off the bench. He can change a game quickly
Exactly. The guy played his heart out for us and handled being demoted with more grace than most of us would have. He just seems like a good dude. He also kept his nose clean and you can tell he loves the game of basketball. I wish him the best. CJ Fredrick on the other hand...
 

MIHawk64

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Nice interview. Joe had 7 points in their opening exhibition game I believe. He makes comments in this interview about finally having a coach that has confidence in him which confirms everything we suspected. He had a short leash and wasn't allowed to play his game. I hope he has a big year.
I listened to the whole video. He was not negative on Iowa or Fran. Just felt he would be better of playing at WV based on him having followed WV for a number of years and knowing players there who came from NY.
 

CaboKP

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Good luck to Joe this year! Seems like a great kid, hopefully he threw away his slick shoes.

The Goonies (@Goonies1632) / Twitter
 

owenhawk

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No it can't... but I'd also state we don't win the Big Ten championship without Joe T.

Will be following him this year a wish him well.
That might be true ... but you could say that about 10-11 other guys on the roster as well. That Championship run was really a "team" accomplishment. Even guys that didn't regularly play like Sandfort, Mulvey, and Josh O had key contributions that were necessary to Iowa winning that championship.
 

owenhawk

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Joe is in a great system for him which will capitalize on his defensive strengths. It is also undeniable that he struggled to pick his spots and operate within the confines of Fran’s motion offense. I was a huge Toussaint fan, and think I even started a thread at one point about him being one of the better PG’s in the Big Ten, but it became apparent (especially after Fran’s mid season lineup change), that Bohannon was significantly better at being a facilitator in Iowa’s offense and then picking his spots to shoot. Joe’s tendency to dribble around the court in half court O didn’t lend itself well to effective spacing/ball movement/offense. As another poster mentioned, he’s a guy who thrives in chaos/transition

Hope he kicks ass as a Mountaineer
I too was a big fan of Joe T and loved his energy and he seemed like a really good teammate ... but as you said, he is in a better system now for him.

Fran gave him EVERY opportunity to fit his system but he didn't. He wasn't undervalued - if anything, the fans overvalued him because they wanted so badly for him to succeed and be the guy.

Fran is well known for letting his players have a lot of free reign in their games and having the green light and building up their confidence ... Joe just couldn't quite figure it out and hopefully in a very different system/style, he will find more consistency.

There is not doubt Fran made the right move taking Joe out of the starting line-up and inserting Perkins.
 

owenhawk

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JBO and CMAC already had their union cards and Perkins emerged as better player than JT. Fran doesn't value defense as much as he values offense so JoeT was always going to be undervalued on a Fran team.

When Iowa landed JoeT I was pretty happy because Iowa never gets this type of player. After he got benched the table was set for a off season transfer. Iowa did have a better record after JBO moved to PG---but Fran had made assurances to JoeT/Ulis that JBO would be the 2-guard...so not surprising JoeT took his ball elsewhere. Wish him best of luck. It was either JoeT or Ulis, one of them was going to transfer with Bowen coming in. JoeT has gone to a system that better utilizes his skillset.
So since he made assurances - and the players that were given the opportunity didn't take advantage and run with that opportunity - Fran should have kept them at PG and not moved JBo back mid-season when it wasn't working like it should? To the detriment of the whole team?

That's BS. Before the move was made, a lot of the fanbase was pissed at Fran and predicting the season was slipping away and Iowa wasn't even going to make the NCAA Tournament. Fran made a move that he thought would make the team better - and he was right - and it doesn't matter if he made "assurances". It wasn't working because Joe T and Ulis weren't able to take control of the reigns.
 

kceasthawk

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But connors assist to turnover ratio or something
Thats just another silly comment that has NOTHING to do with this discussion. It wasn't Cmac who took those minutes last year, it was TP and Jbo, and as has been pointed out we played much better after Fran made that move. Cmac hasn't played much at the point since Luka left.
 

2432Hawk

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That might be true ... but you could say that about 10-11 other guys on the roster as well. That Championship run was really a "team" accomplishment. Even guys that didn't regularly play like Sandfort, Mulvey, and Josh O had key contributions that were necessary to Iowa winning that championship.
Totally agreed. Everyone played their role and contributed to the teams success.
 

owenhawk

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Thats just another silly comment that has NOTHING to do with this discussion. It wasn't Cmac who took those minutes last year, it was TP and Jbo, and as has been pointed out we played much better after Fran made that move. Cmac hasn't played much at the point since Luka left.
Yep, some of our fanbase are so ridiculously blinded by their hate for the coaches that they can't see reality. CMac was 8th in minutes last year and as you said, he isn't taking those minutes. One of CMac's best attributes is that he is versatile enough to be put in at the 1-4 spot because he can guard all 4 of those spots and understands where he is supposed to be offensively.
 

TC_Hawk

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Nice interview. Joe had 7 points in their opening exhibition game I believe. He makes comments in this interview about finally having a coach that has confidence in him which confirms everything we suspected. He had a short leash and wasn't allowed to play his game. I hope he has a big year.
Hopefully WV gave him some better shoes, so he doesn't keep sliding around the floor like a 12 year old at a sock hop.
 

Bro D

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I'm over the argument... I'm in the camp that thinks he was criminally mis-used. I acknowledge his faults but he had way too quick of a hook. One of the best on the ball and help defenders and transition guards we've had and its shocking he didn't get a longer of a leash... but I really don't care anymore since he's not a hawk.. other than some random sarcastic comments.. and wish him nothing but the best. Think he'll kill it in West Virginia. But its Bowen time and I'm excited
 

Bro D

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and also fwiw, i was clearly not a fan of CMac getting so many minutes over other players the last few years but we definitely need him this year.
 

WestCoastHawkI

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and also fwiw, i was clearly not a fan of CMac getting so many minutes over other players the last few years but we definitely need him this year.

My one gripe about Cmac was his shooting and if he fixes that I am all for him playing extended minutes.

But, based on a lot of the logic I see in the football forums, players can't improve and should be judged by their play a year ago. So Cmac is not the player you think he is.
 

Bro D

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My one gripe about Cmac was his shooting and if he fixes that I am all for him playing extended minutes.

But, based on a lot of the logic I see in the football forums, players can't improve and should be judged by their play a year ago. So Cmac is not the player you think he is.
I'm skeptical that he's going to make some huge improvement, but I'm rooting for it and we'll need it this year. If can become more consistent and make the defenses not sag completely off him, sign me up. More than anything, we need him this year with the early season questions off the bench. I literally think every minute he played last year should have gone to any combination of kris, sandfort, perkins, joe t. Him taking minutes from more deserving players isn't8 really an option this season (atleast at i hope not) so we really need him to make those improvements
 
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BBHawk

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Joe T's minutes were pretty much taken up by JoBo and Tony. I would not have wanted either of those 2 to sit in lieu of Joe getting more minutes.
 

ShonnDeereGreene

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Loved Joe on defense. Offense always scared the bejesus out of me. One of two things happened:

1) Fran told him slow the F down and get under control on offense or you’re gonna get benched. If that’s the case, it’s on Joe to take that feedback and implement it. Never seemed to get done. Or…

2) Fran never told him OR more likely never effectively taught him how to play under control. If that’s the case, it’s on Fran.

One reason or another, Joe’s erratic offensive play is probably what torpedoed his minutes. And being a defensive stopper alone wasn’t going to earn 30 minutes a game (20 maybe) in this scheme. So all in all, probably a good outcome for Joe to go to a school/coach where he can bust his hump on defense for however long the gas tank will let him. Fits great for that D.
 

Bro D

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Joe T's minutes were pretty much taken up by JoBo and Tony. I would not have wanted either of those 2 to sit in lieu of Joe getting more minutes.
I disagree completely. If youre saying connor at the "4" is why he wasnt taking "joes minutes", youre absolutely crazy. God damnit i said i didnt want to argue about this. Nevermind, youre right
 

kceasthawk

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Hopefully WV gave him some better shoes, so he doesn't keep sliding around the floor like a 12 year old at a sock hop.
Dude wore some crazy colored shoes no doubt, "Money its the SHOES", but he seemed to be on skates half the time. So many games he come out in the second half in different shoes then the first half, like it was the shoes...
 
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BBHawk

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Loved Joe on defense. Offense always scared the bejesus out of me. One of two things happened:

1) Fran told him slow the F down and get under control on offense or you’re gonna get benched. If that’s the case, it’s on Joe to take that feedback and implement it. Never seemed to get done. Or…

2) Fran never told him OR more likely never effectively taught him how to play under control. If that’s the case, it’s on Fran.

One reason or another, Joe’s erratic offensive play is probably what torpedoed his minutes. And being a defensive stopper alone wasn’t going to earn 30 minutes a game (20 maybe) in this scheme. So all in all, probably a good outcome for Joe to go to a school/coach where he can bust his hump on defense for however long the gas tank will let him. Fits great for that D.
LOL.

Where in the hell did you read that McC told Joe to slow down? Play in control and not turn it over, yes, but Joe has to handle the rest.

Did you ever think that Joe might have some responsibility for what Joe does?
 

ShonnDeereGreene

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LOL.

Where in the hell did you read that McC told Joe to slow down? Play in control and not turn it over, yes, but Joe has to handle the rest.

Did you ever think that Joe might have some responsibility for what Joe does?
Easy tiger….

that would fall under scenario #1 then, btw, where if Joe didn’t apply what the coach is asking of him, then yes, that’s on Joe.