Joe t could be one of those players that just will always be a little out of control but in the end will be a net positive if given a bit of a longer leash.
Toussaint
- Thread starter iahawkeyes17
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I just wanted to make sure you were aware after seeing your "year over year" comment.
I don’t see Perkins on the court without a pg in there with him. He’s closer to a undersized 3 than he is a pg.
If you’re basing all of connors “success” on just not turning the ball over, that’s comical. His stat lines in all 3 of those games were basically non-existent, besides minutes of course.
64minutes
5reb 5ast 6pts
Not sure id consider that “playing well”
It would be one thing if he was a real defensive stopper, but he’s not really that either.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
"Year over Year" would signify at least 2 years. You just need a prior year to compare to.
Technically true, but nobody actually says that for two years (actually less than two years in this case).
We can all hope JoeT got the message and is dialing it back a little on the speed thing. There are times that is necessary - like 5 seconds left to go the length of the court - but not all the time. I kept looking for Joe to drive into the lane hoping for the best, but he didn't even really try this last game.
I think he is trying to dial it down some it appears. I think the more playing time JT gets the better he will be
I like how some on here think he is the only one turning the ball over. The last game against Indiana jbo had 4 TO’s and last game the box score said zero but he was inbounding the ball on the 5 second call which in my mind would be a TO and he also took that very dumb 3 from 4 feet behind the arch on a fast break pretty much giving MSU the ball right back. There’s more to the game then what the box score says.
Bohannon is really not providing much lately. He can't beat his man off the dribble or create space for his own shot. He's not hitting open shots when he gets them and he looks lackadaisical on defense. Joe T still seems a bit out of control at times but at least he can beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane.
Yeah, he can. Assuming he doesn't fall down under his own power. Or get there and stop, and look around to see if he's got somewhere to go with the ball. He literally never has a plan IMO, he just goes.
JoBo is a shooting guard trying to play point because it seems the quality PGs coming out of high school/AAU appear to avoid Fran like the plague, and after watching the Joe T debacle I wonder why. For a 5th year senior JoBo gives it his all which is basically getting the ball in the offensive end then giving it up 25 feet from the basket, and shooting a few bombs. That apparently is what Fran’s idea of a point guard should be. Oh yes I forgot, and defensively let your man blow by you repeatedly for easy baskets or assists.
We have three point guards on the roster.
Jordan Bohannon ESPN 4*, top 120 as a point guard. Ends his career as school's career assist and three point leader and possibly free throws as well. That's a pretty top flight recruit that performed big time as a four year starter.
Joe Toussaint, also an ESPN 4* top 120 as a point guard. We have now listened to a small but vocal minority that thinks this 4* point guard should start ahead of the iconic 4* recruit that holds the job.
Ahron Ulis, a Rivals 4* top 120 as a point guard. We have an even smaller but just as vocal a minority that thinks he should start as a true freshmen ahead of both the 4*s recruited in earlier classes.
That sounds like 8 seasons of pretty good point guard recruiting in just three players. I get that you hate Bohannon and McCaffery but I don't think your premise, that quality PGs "appear to avoid Fran like the plague" is in the majority of national basketball opinion of McC's relationship with 4* point guards.
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BirdistheWord
HB Legend
JBo deserved a serious ass chewing after that ill advised shot. Absolutely no reason for him to pull the trigger there. That was my most disappointing moment from yesterday’s game except for the blocking foul on Garza that should have been a MSU charge.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
vs Wisky....That drive to nowhwere on the baseline was terrible, but otherwise thought he played well, under control. 4 minutes?
Solid post. Also Joe averages more points than connor in a little over half the time and is a better FT shooter and goes to the line a lot for his minutes because he drives and puts pressure on the defense. And as you referenced....defense not comparable. I can live with an extra JT turnover a game until he cleans that up but then again I value defense
3 turnovers tonight, still didn't get pulled like Joe after 1
It will be interesting to see the battle between Ulis and JoeT next year for PG minutes. I hope neither gets discouraged by their time this year.
It’s abundantly clear that Joe is in the doghouse and/or has a short leash. I did think his turnover tonight was pretty ridiculous, he had no purpose racing to that spot and basically dribbled out of bounds. It is what it is.
That said, it’s still not really a Joe vs. Connor situation. While Connor will bring the ball up sometimes, it’s really a Joe vs. JBo situation.
I think the poster means if a PG turns it over bringing the ball up the court, it is a layup. Seems like most of JoeT's turnovers are stopped ball travels/charges and those don't lead to layups the other way. JoeT gets a lot of steals that do lead to layups/fast breaks for Iowa.
I wish Fran would give JoeT a more consistent level of PT... 10-15 min/game because he amps the defense
The last 2 games I've seen Joe more under control then I've seen him all year. That to me is a sign that the staff is getting on him at practice and he's taking it to heart.
As long as Jordan still has eligibility left at Iowa, Joe is not going to get more minutes. Is Jordan a perfect PG, absolutely not but he's a senior and whether he scores or not the opposition has to guard him because of his 3 point shooting ability. Joe is not to that level yet offensively and Fran is going to use Joe as a change of pace and some games it's going to work out and others, well not so much. Just glad we have Toussaint and Ulis to back up Jordan in case something happens to Jordan being an injury or foul problems....
As long as Jordan still has eligibility left at Iowa, Joe is not going to get more minutes. Is Jordan a perfect PG, absolutely not but he's a senior and whether he scores or not the opposition has to guard him because of his 3 point shooting ability. Joe is not to that level yet offensively and Fran is going to use Joe as a change of pace and some games it's going to work out and others, well not so much. Just glad we have Toussaint and Ulis to back up Jordan in case something happens to Jordan being an injury or foul problems....
Too bad Bohannon and Toussaint couldn't produce a love child with the best aspects of both their games rolled into one really kick ass point guard...
Kind of the point I've been making all along, does our team really improve by benching our 5th year Senior for the second year sophomore? No, it doesn't. They all have their flaws, but it's not worth benching Jbo for Joe this year. Next year, Joe will hopefully run with it. He's definitely not getting minutes, but last night appeared to be more of a matchup thing for the entire bench's PT. Our starters matched up well with their starters, it showed, and they played.
Why would he leave if he's going to be the starting PG on a really good team? Do you think Fran isn't constantly talking to him about his role now, and in the future? Where would he go? Worse team? He isn't good enough to go to a super team and fill the PG role.
Would you be confident you're going to be the starter if you can't get a minute in the second half of games over a guy with no hips, while also losing time to a freshman who hasn't shown a whole lot?
Why is it when someone thinks that a player should get more minutes then he actually does, that player is automatically going to transfer after the season? Bohannan is a senior and is Iowa's all time 3 point scorer and has over 600 assists in his 4+ years at Iowa. Toussaint is a sophomore and is still learning, if he does leave, Iowa will be in good hands in Ulis, but I'll bet Joe takes it all in stride and he'll be back next year. Geez people get a life....
Maybe he's on the same page with Fran and that's how he'll view it. Who knows?
In no way has Bohannon's play warranted the minutes that he's gotten this year. That's what I, and others, have seen over the course of the season.
Thinking that I player might consider his options after seeing his minutes fall and getting yanked quickly after an error is a very different thing than "that player is automatically going to transfer after the season".
Ulis is big enough to play some 2 if need be as well to stretch more minutes and get our best players on the floor more often.
The guy with no hips will be gone next year, and Ulis has played a grant total of 26 minutes the last 9 games, including 0 last night. What in the actual f*** are you talking about?
Listen, if our fans (and it's not your fault) aren't smart enough to realize what our offense is this year, and what makes it click, they need to at least try to understand. It is designed THIS YEAR, to get the best damn bball player in the country as many shots and touches as possible. It's done in a way to escape as many double/triple teams as possible by putting shooters on the floor, who are going to space things out and pass well. That's what Jbo offers over Joe. This is what CJ's presence means to this offense. That's what it is. It is the best thing for our team, THIS YEAR. Next year, our entire offense is going to change with Luka gone. If Joe doesn't want to play PG for 22-25 MPG next year, and likely start, then he should transfer. However, it makes no sense to do so.
It’ll really come down to what his relationship with Fran really is. A lot of minutes will open up next season. JBo will be gone, primarily. That’s a lot of PG minutes up for grabs, presumably for he and Ulis to compete for.
Also worth noting that he seems to have a crap ton of chemistry with Patrick - it’s like they’ve mind-melded.
I agree with most of your 2nd paragraph. I'm all for better spacing, you can mix and match more than they're currently doing. If spacing is so important then Connor shouldn't be getting any minutes, his guy is always the one to double down on Garza.
To your first paragraph, simmer down, I'm only speaking about what might be going on in Toussaint's mind. He's obviously been getting more minutes than Ulis, but in games like Rutgers Toussaint rides the pine again all 2nd half while Ulis comes in and looks overmatched. That has to drive him crazy as a competitor. He also probably thinks he's better or at least on par with Jbo, and I'm guessing it kills him to see him have bad games and still not sit for an entire 2nd half.
I hope he stays, next year we could be even better even though Garza is gone.
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