Trump Republicans vs Ike Republicans

West Dundee Hawkeye

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The big difference between the Trump Republican Party & the old school Ike Republican Party is balancing the budget. The Trump Republicans don't care about budget deficits if they can cut taxes. The Ike Republicans would rather balance the budget even if it meant having to raise taxes.

The Ike Republicans thought deficits matter. The Trump Republicans don't. The Ike Republicans know that:

Savings-Investment=Exports-Imports

Current Account = Financial Account

The smaller the budget deficit, the more savings increases. The more savings goes up, the more exports go up. The more exports go up the working class does better.

Ike had a top rate of 92% and was able to balance the budget 3 times. To their credit, long time Democrats Truman & Clinton also each balanced the budget 3 times.

The Grover Norquist crowd would tell you the sky would fall with taxes that high. The sky did not fall and the and the 1950's rocked. In the 1950's, the middle class grew, real inflation adjusted earnings rose and the stock market did great.

The Trump crowd is as reckless and irresponsible as the biggest spending Democrat.
 

jamesvanderwulf

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The answer is much more nuanced than your simplistic explanation. Post depression, post war optimism might have have something to go with that. In the 50's we had more manufacturing jobs ( producing good and services ), now we have more government jobs, shuffling paper bureaucrats who actually produce nothing but useless statistics. Post war inflation lead to wage and price controls and eventually employer based health insurance, leading to some of our healthcare problems to this day...
 
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mstp1992

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The big difference between the Trump Republican Party & the old school Ike Republican Party is balancing the budget. The Trump Republicans don't care about budget deficits if they can cut taxes. The Ike Republicans would rather balance the budget even if it meant having to raise taxes.

The Ike Republicans thought deficits matter. The Trump Republicans don't. The Ike Republicans know that:

Savings-Investment=Exports-Imports

Current Account = Financial Account

The smaller the budget deficit, the more savings increases. The more savings goes up, the more exports go up. The more exports go up the working class does better.

Ike had a top rate of 92% and was able to balance the budget 3 times. To their credit, long time Democrats Truman & Clinton also each balanced the budget 3 times.

The Grover Norquist crowd would tell you the sky would fall with taxes that high. The sky did not fall and the and the 1950's rocked. In the 1950's, the middle class grew, real inflation adjusted earnings rose and the stock market did great.

The Trump crowd is as reckless and irresponsible as the biggest spending Democrat.
There are myriad differences between Trump Republicans and Ike Republicans, beyond just fiscal philosophy and practice.
 

Old_wrestling_fan

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The answer is much more nuanced than your simplistic explanation. Post depression, post war optimism might have have something to go with that. In the 50's we had more manufacturing jobs ( producing good and services ), now we have more government jobs, shuffling paper bureaucrats who actually produce nothing but useless statistics. Post war inflation lead to wage and price controls and eventually employer based health insurance, leading to some of our healthcare problems to this day...
True. ^^ Not only that...but almost all post WW2 comparisons to nowadays fail to acknowledge that much of the rest of the modern world was in a shambles following the war. That the US had a "clean track" to run on v. most of the rest of the world is a HUGE part of any understanding of economic conditions between the two eras.

As soon as I read someone making comparisons between now and post WW2, I look for what they are leaving out...because the context matters and in this case the context does not match up well at all.
 
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West Dundee Hawkeye

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The answer is much more nuanced than your simplistic explanation. Post depression, post war optimism might have have something to go with that. In the 50's we had more manufacturing jobs ( producing good and services ), now we have more government jobs, shuffling paper bureaucrats who actually produce nothing but useless statistics. Post war inflation lead to wage and price controls and eventually employer based health insurance, leading to some of our healthcare problems to this day...
Thanks for your reply.

On a chat room board, I always start out simple. It is easy to go deeper.

The defining issue of the Trump GOP is taxes. That is just the fact. Trump even said he could shoot someone & the party (read: his base) would still like him since he wanted to cut taxes.

Sen. McConnell has said & the rest of the GOP Senators have all agreed they won't change the Corporate Tax Reform law that was signed into law by Trump under any conditions. That law lowered taxes.

I would argue the Trump GOP has a simplistic view of taxes. In their eyes all taxes are bad & should be eliminated. This thinking has led to massive budget deficits.

National Debt

Leading to massive trade deficits.

Trade Balance in US

This has reduced manufacturing jobs as a percent of the workforce.

Manufacturing Jobs

This has led to a flat median income growth.

Median Income
 

West Dundee Hawkeye

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True. ^^ Not only that...but almost all post WW2 comparisons to nowadays fail to acknowledge that much of the rest of the modern world was in a shambles following the war. That the US had a "clean track" to run on v. most of the rest of the world is a HUGE part of any understanding of economic conditions between the two eras.

As soon as I read someone making comparisons between now and post WW2, I look for what they are leaving out...because the context matters and in this case the context does not match up well at all.
Thanks for your reply as well.

I would argue you could start the analysis in the 1960's, 70's, or 80's and everything I stated is correct. Deficit spending has led to trade deficits which has hurt the working class. Having so called "Free Trade" with budget deficits kills the working class. The reduction in manufacturing employment has been steady for decades. This is not just an immediate post WW2 occurrence.

The policies of the US have been inflationary since the end of WW2 with a small exception for Volker's tight money policy from 1979-1982. The inflation makes the working class less competitive. Deflation used to be as common as inflation prior to WW2 in times of peace.
 

noleclone2

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If you are talking Ike, the tax rates were very high but Ike wound down the Korean War and still balanced the budget 3 times.
I’m talking about how a balanced budget is more doable with the taxes on the extreme wealthy at 90 percent…

And I think Ike was a great President.
 
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jamesvanderwulf

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The Trump crowd is as reckless and irresponsible as the biggest spending Democrat.
He was and lost the election because of it. My vote anyway...

Again I'm not going to search for links to contrast the 50's with our current economic situation. Going back to the 50's means mom stays at home with the kids, one car, little to no welfare, less materialistic world, eat out once or twice a month if that, way less citizens participating in the stock market, most families didn't vacation very far from home, etc.

Joe has proposed a budget that will show a 1.8 T deficit. He did say he would balance the budget by raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations. I believe last year corporate taxes raised 212 Billion. If Joe is to balance his budget he needs to increase corp. taxes 9X their current levels. Meanwhile the ENTIRE individual income tax only raised 1.8 Trillion. Do you think there is another 1.8 T out there if we raise the tax rate to 50's level of those with incomes over 400K? It's just not there...

 

West Dundee Hawkeye

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I don't blame Biden for the Covid-19 vaccine spending but now that looks under control.

If I were Biden, I would hike the following taxes over 4 years:

1. Personal tax rate to go up to 70-80% on the top
2. Raise cap. gains taxes
3. Raise estate taxes
4. Raise Social Security tax
5. Raise Medicare Tax
6. Raise gas tax

To me everybody making over $50K should have a higher tax rate.

I also would match spending cuts with taxes so for every $1 raised in taxes a $1 would be cut from spending.

This is what the Ike GOP stood for. Balance the budget.
 
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ft254

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I don't blame Biden for the Covid-19 vaccine spending but now that looks under control.

If I were Biden, I would hike the following taxes over 4 years:

1. Personal tax rate to go up to 70-80% on the top
2. Raise cap. gains taxes
3. Raise estate taxes
4. Raise Social Security tax
5. Raise Medicare Tax
6. Raise gas tax

To me everybody making over $50K should have a higher tax rate.

I also would match spending cuts with taxes so for every $1 raised in taxes a $1 would be cut from spending.

This is what the Ike GOP stood for. Balance the budget.

Taxes need to be raised and collected.
 

SSG T

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I'd argue that Trump Republicans started their desire for low taxes (especially on the rich) and not caring about spending (only what's being spent on) 40 years ago.

If we had a $3T budget with the bulk going to the "right" business subsidies, military, LE and fighting the War on Drugs, Pubbers wouldn't care. If we had a budget of $2.5T with the bulk going to social spending, Pubbers would throw a fit about the size of the budget.

And God forbid we tax appropriately for either. Can't have the rich paying more, Jim the plumber making $60k wouldn't stand for it...
 

goldmom

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I don't blame Biden for the Covid-19 vaccine spending but now that looks under control.

If I were Biden, I would hike the following taxes over 4 years:

1. Personal tax rate to go up to 70-80% on the top
2. Raise cap. gains taxes
3. Raise estate taxes
4. Raise Social Security tax
5. Raise Medicare Tax
6. Raise gas tax

To me everybody making over $50K should have a higher tax rate.

I also would match spending cuts with taxes so for every $1 raised in taxes a $1 would be cut from spending.

This is what the Ike GOP stood for. Balance the budget.
This is almost laughable.
 
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Capital1Hawk

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I don't blame Biden for the Covid-19 vaccine spending but now that looks under control.

If I were Biden, I would hike the following taxes over 4 years:

1. Personal tax rate to go up to 70-80% on the top
2. Raise cap. gains taxes
3. Raise estate taxes
4. Raise Social Security tax
5. Raise Medicare Tax
6. Raise gas tax

To me everybody making over $50K should have a higher tax rate.

I also would match spending cuts with taxes so for every $1 raised in taxes a $1 would be cut from spending.

This is what the Ike GOP stood for. Balance the budget.
Until we get our spending under control you can’t tax your way out of it. Spending won’t get under control bc you won’t get elected if you cut spending. It’s a sad vicious cycle. China will hate us when we pay down their debt with an inflated dollar that’s worth less than what it was borrowed at and that’s how we paid for the Vietnam war and only way we can afford to pay down our debt.
 
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West Dundee Hawkeye

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Until we get our spending under control you can’t tax your way out of it. Spending won’t get under control bc you won’t get elected if you cut spending. It’s a sad vicious cycle. China will hate us when we pay down their debt with an inflated dollar that’s worth less than what it was borrowed at and that’s how we paid for the Vietnam war and only way we can afford to pay down our debt.
I agree with you that spending needs to come way down.
 

srams21

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Ike Republicans were classy and Trump supporters ... well ...

DekRP4bU8AAfhEu.jpg
 
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If I were Biden, I would hike the following taxes over 4 years:

1. Personal tax rate to go up to 70-80% on the top
2. Raise cap. gains taxes
3. Raise estate taxes
4. Raise Social Security tax
5. Raise Medicare Tax
6. Raise gas tax

I also would match spending cuts with taxes so for every $1 raised in taxes a $1 would be cut from spending.
Without running the numbers, those tax increases sound like they would get us to a balanced budget pretty quickly.

So why the spending cuts?

Shouldn't we really be talking about

1. Paying the bills (old spending), and​
2. Deciding what we want government to do going forward (new spending)?​

Your tax increases - or something along those lines - will be necessary to tackle the climate crisis. Other spending can be cut or expanded, as the country decides, but that one is (or should be) beyond dispute.

Which is to say that we should stop yammering about cutting spending and get serious about what we want to accomplish. And stop talking about taxes - except insofar as we need enough revenue to pay the bills.
 

Rifler

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Without running the numbers, those tax increases sound like they would get us to a balanced budget pretty quickly. So why the spending cuts?
Nope,.. those tax increases wouldn't come close to producing a balanced budget without the added savings provided by spending cuts.
 
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West Dundee Hawkeye

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Every time you say this, I just shake my head.

Is it possible that what you meant is

Savings:Investment::Exports:Imports

??
Not quite but thanks for your reply.

The US imports more than it exports. The effect of this is to run a Trade Deficit as opposed to a Trade Surplus.

Trade is a component of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). GDP equals Consumption + Gov. Spending + Investment + (Trade Balance or Exports-Imports). This is often seen as:

GDP=C+G+I+(X-M)

If a country runs a Trade Deficit it has to be paid for. The first way to pay for it is savings. When people have a $ they can consume it or save it.

If a country does not have enough savings to pay for the Trade Deficit, then the country has to borrow.

Trade Deficits and Budget Deficits are linked together.

If a country runs a Budget Deficit (read: spends more than brings in), the primary way to pay for it is to borrow and sell Treasuries. These range from 30 days - 30 years. Borrowing is considered dis-savings.

Below is a great article that describes the Trade Balance (Current Account) and capital flows into a country (Financial Account) and the need for them to balance.

Current Account = Financial Account
 

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