Two Different Views Of Human Life
- Thread starter LuteHawk
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We are part of the root cause, and your religious framing should allow you to easily accept that this may be true and worth investigation.
Brilliant refutation! Well done!
Just say "Cuz God says so" and be done with it.
So you need a label? Is that what it takes to make it official? Would you accept it if Jesus used the label? What if He trademarked it? Would it pass muster then?
It was a pretty wild idea at the time, quite original in fact. It makes sense it took the priests and & scholars of the day time to digest and come up with the label.
The text is still there, always has been, always will be. I’m still working on a good label for what you do. That does not mean you are not real today, blathering about and regurgitating some other professor’s drivel.
And yet, you have yet to explain how Adam and Eve had free will despite their choices being pre-ordained. If you can't refute the idea, just attribute it to the "mysterious ways" of your God. Pretty typical.
Christianity or Christians?
Christianity falls on the side of at the very least treating immigrants well. It doesn't say that you can't control borders and send people back. But that people have to be treated with love and kindness.
Now many Christians have tried to rationalize this all away so that they can stay in the cult of Trump or because their own personal biases prevent them from loving immigrants.
But Christianity as in the holy scriptures and Christian tradition are very clear on this.
Don’t you find it suspicious that a supposedly all knowing god who requires we believe a certain way, inspired a theology that no one can agree on? That doesn’t really have the divine written all over it.Oh, I think murder is fairly tangible.
Although if you "miss the mark," you've missed your intended target.
I like Lute, but you already know he and I won't agree on much in the way of theology. Someone brought up the passage of Scripture about God regretting creating human kind. For one, who knows what the original Hebrew meant or actually said. For example, one of The Tolerant Right Folks' favorite verses to condemn people with are the verses on the different sinners out there and that they "will not inherent the kingdom of heaven."
Well, for one, when Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven, he was often talking about a different level of consciousness. Second, the original Greek meant "they will not have peace," which is a far cry from they're going to Hell.
Which of course illuminates one of many theological problems with Protestant thinking. One, if the English translation of those verses were accurate, then that completely contradicts the belief that right "believing" is the only thing required to get to heaven. Second, there is a clear and obvious problem with "Scripture alone." Not only is it problematic because poor language translations obfuscate important meanings, it's also problematic because neither the Jews nor Christians for 1,500 years believed in Scripture alone. But all of the sudden a German monk suffering from bipolar depression, who in his aggrieved state believes life on Earth is purgatory, changes nearly 6,000 years of Judeo-Christian tradition.
And if you're wondering, no, I do not believe the Bible is infallible. With that said, I also do not believe it is without merit.
True believers find nothing suspicious about the behavior of their chosen deity. Just look at the cult of Trump.
I have a label. Concepts don’t exist until they have a word, that’s also in the Bible. If Yahweh wanted to share the stage, the first comment would be different and the Hebrews would have worshiped a three headed god.
I’d be interested in anything Jesus wrote. Too bad the guy didn’t record one word. Probably because he figured there wasn’t a point as he thought the world was about to end. Not such a smart move by a god.
What’s wrong with that? You’re pretty quick to tear beliefs you don’t agree with down. It’s weird that people think religion should be above criticism. Jesus didn’t think that way. How do you know God didn’t send me to bring the correct word?
The Hebrews were worshipping a Triune God, they just didn’t realize it yet. Abraham caught on to this very early. So did Daniel. The slow reveal is part of the fun!
I don't believe that, for one.
And if people truly understood the teachings of Christ, it's all quite simple.
According to the Bible, they did. According to what we know of human behavior, that is consistent with our reality today.
I strongly disagree. And I don't even believe in a literal translation of the Adam and Eve story.
All of us have choices. God existing outside time, space, and matter doesn't change that.
How is it still Obama’s fault? When does it become Trump’s immigration policy? I tell you what. I’ll accept Obama is to blame for immigration if you accept Obama gets credit for the economy.Exactly. If the U.S. just followed the immigration laws already on the books, we would be farther along in vetting and managing the inflow of immigrants than we are. Thanks Congress & Obama.
So it’s God’s fault. Awesome. You folks always have someone else to blame.
If you ask your 6 year old nephew if he wants a candy bar and he says yes, does that mean you forced him to take it because you knew he would say yes?
Ok, then me too. I just don’t know it. Everyone gets a ribbon.
I didn't create my 6-year old nephew. And if I tell him he better not take candy from a stranger...especially a strange f'n talking snake...I would hope he would be smart enough to yell, "Stranger danger!"
I certainly wouldn't create him knowing that he was gonna take the candy no matter what I told him. And, btw, if I did create him like that, I would be a real asshole to get mad when he did exactly what he was created to do.
Not true if god is all knowing. Maybe define your god with fewer superpowers.
I know what your argument is.
Again, I don't believe in a literal translation of the Adam and Eve story. I'm simply saying one) the Bible states clearly and unambiguously they were free to choose. The reason they were free to choose is because they had an alternative choice (not to eat of the forbidden fruit) and the intellectual capacity to make the choice. Two, having the intellectual capacity to choose between available options is consistent with the human experience today. How do I know this? I've experienced the cognitive processes involved in deciding whether to punch someone in their mouth when I've been provoked or to walk away.
Those choices are not infringed upon or pre-programmed by a divine being existing outside of time, space, and matter having foreknowledge of what choice I decided to make.
That’s actually biblically supported. The biblical god doesn’t know everything and it can’t do anything. Yahweh has limits. The entire Jesus story is predicated on god needing to find a loophole because it doesn’t have the power to just directly forgive people. I mean everyone on the planet can do that, but Yahweh can’t.
You don’t actually know he will say yes. You may believe there is an excellent chance he will, but you don’t have knowledge of the event beforehand.
I have no doubt that is your interpretation.
This really isn't a difficult concept to get.
You not believing in a sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient God doesn't mean there is a logical fallacy in a divine being having foreknowledge of the choices human beings make.
If Adam and Eve HADN'T chosen the tree of knowledge, imagine how boring it would have been. There would have never been any contrast, or awareness, or CHOICE. I am so grateful that they opened the door for us to experience all there is to experience.
Of course, it's a story about knowledge and awareness, but... it's a really cool story. I don't need for the characters in the Bible, or even history books, to have been "real" in order for me to acquire value from their stories. This entire experience is relative... and THANK GOD FOR THAT.
Of course, it's a story about knowledge and awareness, but... it's a really cool story. I don't need for the characters in the Bible, or even history books, to have been "real" in order for me to acquire value from their stories. This entire experience is relative... and THANK GOD FOR THAT.
"Is it not written in the Scriptures that 'Ye are Gods'?"
"... truly, I say that these things and MORE shall YOU DO, if you believe..."
When Jesus gave the command to baptize
He said to do it in the name of the Father,
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19 gives us the concept of the
Triune God. There is only one God but
three distinct persons. The understanding
of the Trinity is done by faith not logic.
He said to do it in the name of the Father,
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19 gives us the concept of the
Triune God. There is only one God but
three distinct persons. The understanding
of the Trinity is done by faith not logic.
I give this deflection a 4 out of 10.
Meets the definition of a deflection but lacking in both effort and execution.
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