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Two Tulsa police officers shot during traffic stop

JupiterHawk

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Jan 6, 2005
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disclosure that this is an extremely difficult video to watch. One takeaway from these videos is that the non-lethal deterrents do not seem to work well when someone’s adrenaline is up and not wanting to be arrested.

Again watch at your discretion. Horrible




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The officer who was killed had arrested the suspect 14 years ago and during that arrest, the suspect had spit on and threatened to kill the same officer.

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Cops are in a no win situation. The guy yells "please let me go" while resisting. So if the cops use more force they would be accused of murder, harassment, excessive force. not enough force and they are shot/dead.

One thing is for sure,. This video proves how little time it takes for things to go sour. 2 cops on one guy yet in a spli6 second they both are shot.
 
Cops are in a no win situation. The guy yells "please let me go" while resisting. So if the cops use more force they would be accused of murder, harassment, excessive force. not enough force and they are shot/dead.

One thing is for sure,. This video proves how little time it takes for things to go sour. 2 cops on one guy yet in a spli6 second they both are shot.


Good points. That’s such a terrible thing to see happen. It’s a damn hard job that people can’t possibly understand until they’ve done it. And in saying that, I’m absolutely not trying to take anything away from the examples of police brutality, misconduct and even murder that we’ve seen in recent years.
 
Cops are in a no win situation. The guy yells "please let me go" while resisting. So if the cops use more force they would be accused of murder, harassment, excessive force. not enough force and they are shot/dead.

One thing is for sure,. This video proves how little time it takes for things to go sour. 2 cops on one guy yet in a spli6 second they both are shot.
It also shows how useless it is to have a non lethal weapon in your hands.
 
Tough to watch. Toughest part of job is the unpredictability of who runs across you path.

And I will go ahead and ask the question we all are wondering: did him being white play a factor in them letting him mess around far too long, with tasering and pepper spray having zero impact, and still not one of them pulling a gun out and start giving orders with the barrel of a gun as back up? It’s almost like the inverse of profiling gone bad and I think it did play a role.
 
Tough to watch. Toughest part of job is the unpredictability of who runs across you path.

And I will go ahead and ask the question we all are wondering: did him being white play a factor in them letting him mess around far too long, with tasering and pepper spray having zero impact, and still not one of them pulling a gun out and start giving orders with the barrel of a gun as back up? It’s almost like the inverse of profiling gone bad and I think it did play a role.
Oh God gtfo

And gfy
 
Tough to watch. Toughest part of job is the unpredictability of who runs across you path.

And I will go ahead and ask the question we all are wondering: did him being white play a factor in them letting him mess around far too long, with tasering and pepper spray having zero impact, and still not one of them pulling a gun out and start giving orders with the barrel of a gun as back up? It’s almost like the inverse of profiling gone bad and I think it did play a role.

I’m guessing this happens 50 times a night without that result and we never hear about it so, I doubt it but it could have been. That’s a personal decision if based on race...not a standard one.
 
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Tough to watch. Toughest part of job is the unpredictability of who runs across you path.

And I will go ahead and ask the question we all are wondering: did him being white play a factor in them letting him mess around far too long, with tasering and pepper spray having zero impact, and still not one of them pulling a gun out and start giving orders with the barrel of a gun as back up? It’s almost like the inverse of profiling gone bad and I think it did play a role.

Or perhaps they were tentative about going full hands-on with the suspect out of fear of being disciplined, suspended or even fired for it. I can tell you for a fact that many police are uneasy about making contact right now.
 
We saw that in kenosha. So what? You telling me you'd rather have a taser in your hands?

I’m just saying there will never be perfect solution. Tasers and pepper spray would almost always work in this scenario. I think the officers did everything right.

Would having their guns drawn have changed the outcome? They were wrangling a guy they thought was unarmed. They didn’t seem to realize he had a gun until after he’d started firing.
 
I’m saying there will never be perfect solution. Tasers and pepper spray would almost always work in this scenario. I think the officers did everything right.

Would having their guns drawn have changed the outcome? They were wrangling a guy they thought was unarmed. They didn’t seem to realize he had a gun until after he’d started firing.
Maybe...which cop in the video died?

Nothing is a guarantee, I agree there.

I'm to the point where I don't give a rats ass about criminals that want to resist. They don't matter to me
 
Maybe...which cop in the video died?

Nothing is a guarantee, I agree there.

I'm to the point where I don't give a rats ass about criminals that want to resist. They don't matter to me

Even scumbags have rights.

I’d rather spend what we need to spend for options that can meet those requirements and keep officers safe. If every patrol car needs a dog, I’m cool paying for it.
 
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Totally serious question - How the heck could they not incapacitate a guy with multiple taser shots and multiple pepper sprays? I thought those measures were practically paralyzing. Maybe police need to look at improving the effectiveness of their non-lethal devices. Unreal what a desperate individual can and will do. Very sad.
 
Dog wouldn't have saved his life.

We seem to be putting criminals rights over everyone else.

A dog can get someone out of a car without putting the officers in such close proximity.

I don’t know. It’s such a shitty deal. These were clearly good police and they deserve to be protected, but I also don’t want to cross the line and ignore constitutional rights.
 
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I’m just saying there will never be perfect solution. Tasers and pepper spray would almost always work in this scenario. I think the officers did everything right.

Would having their guns drawn have changed the outcome? They were wrangling a guy they thought was unarmed. They didn’t seem to realize he had a gun until after he’d started firing.
I didn't do any research on the reasoning of the stop, but nothing I saw would have been justified in having the officer's guns out. People resisting like this happens all the times and because of what is going on in today's world everyone is seconding guessing. I've always told new officers and the general public, if someone wants to kill me, they can do it before I even realize what is happening.
 
A dog can get someone out of a car without putting the officers in such close proximity.

I don’t know. It’s such a shitty deal. These were clearly good police and they deserve to be protected, but I also don’t want to cross the line and ignore constitutional rights.

What if you... you know... poked the guy with the baton a little?
 
I feel terrible for the troops and their family's. Maybe officers should stay put? That's how they do it in Iowa and it works fine.
 
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A dog can get someone out of a car without putting the officers in such close proximity.

I don’t know. It’s such a shitty deal. These were clearly good police and they deserve to be protected, but I also don’t want to cross the line and ignore constitutional rights.
That's a good point, at least here with a white guy. Black suspect and it's 100% cruel and inhumane. Que the riots :(
 
F the wall..use the money to build more prisons and pay the men and women in blue double what they are making now.
 
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I didn't do any research on the reasoning of the stop, but nothing I saw would have been justified in having the officer's guns out. People resisting like this happens all the times and because of what is going on in today's world everyone is seconding guessing. I've always told new officers and the general public, if someone wants to kill me, they can do it before I even realize what is happening.

Get one of those goddamned face eating pitbulls. (or maybe an ass-eating one) Don't want your face ripped off? Don't resist arrest.
 
Totally serious question - How the heck could they not incapacitate a guy with multiple taser shots and multiple pepper sprays? I thought those measures were practically paralyzing. Maybe police need to look at improving the effectiveness of their non-lethal devices. Unreal what a desperate individual can and will do. Very sad.
Again if people don't know what all goes into these non lethal weapons it's easy to make assumptions. With the taser the two darts have to get into the skin to be effective. You also need a large spread between the two darts to be effective and when you're sitting in the car that is hard to do. If you get two darts in below the waist you still have control of your body above the waist and vice versa. That is why they teach you to try to get one dart above and one below the waist to be most effective. If the darts just get stuck in your baggy clothes both darts will fail to give a shock. Or after the 5 seconds of electricity they can pull the dart out. It's not easy and nothing ever goes as planed or how we are trained.
 
Again if people don't know what all goes into these non lethal weapons it's easy to make assumptions. With the taser the two darts have to get into the skin to be effective. You also need a large spread between the two darts to be effective and when you're sitting in the car that is hard to do. If you get two darts in below the waist you still have control of your body above the waist and vice versa. That is why they teach you to try to get one dart above and one below the waist to be most effective. If the darts just get stuck in your baggy clothes both darts will fail to give a shock. Or after the 5 seconds of electricity they can pull the dart out. It's not easy and nothing ever goes as planed or how we are trained.

You’re also going into it blind as to what the person may be on. I know both stimulants and bath salts can dramatically change pain tolerance.
 
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