Two Tulsa police officers shot during traffic stop

Hawkman98

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Going to disagree a bit here. A taser and/or OC are considered a higher use of force than just going hands on and yanking them out. The more plausible explanation for why they didn’t go immediately to hands on, is because they aren’t well trained in physical control to the extent they are with a taser and OC and there is less chance of injury with tools. It’s not wrong to give a suspect time to comply but after a few orders, it’s time to pull them out of the car. Never, under any circumstances, let them stay in the vehicle. (Can’t just shoot them though).

It’s also better to get them to step out before they realize they aren’t going to immediately be on their way or their car is going to get searched. Officer should not have mentioned narcotics to the suspect. Instead, simply telling them to step out of the car so you can talk to them—because it’s dangerous for you to stand in the road, usually works. In my state, the car can be searched for “inventory” since the driver didn’t have insurance or a license, and the officer was going to tow it. I’m not familiar with Oklahoma law, however. From a tactical perspective there were several errors in the video and I don’t believe it had to do with increased public scrutiny.
I agree with most of this. I do think public scrutiny had a factor in this, but I agree it didn't have to do with some of the flaws that occurred. It definitely could have been handled differently, but I try not to judge another officer. It's easy to pick apart a video after the fact and say they could have or should have done something differently. Can I ask what your profession is? You seem knowledgeable about law enforcement, but don't come across as someone in law enforcement.
 
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Nipigu

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It might also behoove some of you to leave your cruisers and suvs and actually interact with community members especially those who are minorities and in high crime neighborhoods.
In many areas the beat officer is going call-to-call, running cover, doing paperwork, and follow up. There isn’t much unaccounted for time.
 
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Nipigu

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That’s a good point. If they don’t sign it, do they actually get out of it!?

Technically, all this suspect was being pulled over for was a driving violation - it seemed to me the main motivation for getting him out of the car was to search it for drugs/contraband, based on his past record. Is that enough for probable cause or would the reason be due to his nervousness and generally agitated behavior?

It also shocked me that the suspect was able to successfully locate, aim and fire his weapon so effectively with a face full of pepper spray. Freaking nuts, and super sad.
Just to add on to @Hawkman98’s reply.

Signing a citation is merely a promise to appear. It Is not an admission of guilt. Refusal to sign the ticket is a refusal to appear. Consequences vary by state. In California this is a misdemeanor and considered a “shall take” a bookable offense.

An officer may order a person out of a car if s/he has articulable safety reasons. The driver also can be patted down as well. Not searched. Many offenders have 4th Waivers as a condition of their release. Those individuals can be searched by LE anytime for no reason whatsoever.

In this case the officers were going to tow the car (which would result in a complete inventory search) but the driver refused. Probably because he knew he had a concealed firearm. That refusal would constitute a delaying and obstructing offense making him subject to arrest.
 
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mnole03

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Mar 20, 2005
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The guy was evil. He went back to kill the officer.

I’m shocked that his friend showed up and drove him away after the shooting. He’s going to spend most of his life in prison as well.
 
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There is a number of things to consider here, and I really hate to Monday morning QB.

-The current climate. Did that play a role in them giving this guy so many chances?
-Were they concerned had they used force after telling the guy three or four times they'd be the ones on national news and have protests?
-Tulsa had their own incident a few years ago where the officer killed an unarmed Individual and was charged with manslaughter.

The sad reality is with how he reached and concealed it, once he had the firearm the officers never had a chance. Oklahoma is a death penalty state, and the guy who did this deserves it IMO.