Universal Health Care Could Have Saved More Than 330,000 U.S. Lives during COVID

Do you favor or oppose universal health care?


  • Total voters
    14
Nov 28, 2010
79,235
32,489
113
Maryland

Universal Health Care Could Have Saved More Than 330,000 U.S. Lives during COVID​

The numbers of lives lost and dollars spent would have been significantly lower if coverage had been extended to everyone, a new study says

A new study quantifies the severity of the impact of the pandemic on Americans who did not have access to health insurance. According to findings published on Monday in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, from the pandemic’s beginning until mid-March 2022, universal health care could have saved more than 338,000 lives from COVID-19 alone. The U.S. also could have saved $105.6 billion in health care costs associated with hospitalizations from the disease—on top of the estimated $438 billion that could be saved in a nonpandemic year.


more in depth and not behind paywall here

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2200536119

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ved-more-than-330-000-u-s-lives-during-covid/
 

onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
6,405
7,491
113
Calling bullshit.

America is fat. Old people had the biggest issues.

nobody needs to be told they are fat and you are not curing old age.

I am willing to try “free” healthcare. A new 8% payroll tax matched by employers would just about cover it.
 
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Finance85

HR Legend
Oct 22, 2003
17,293
18,378
113
A few points -
Everyone has access to health insurance. The "study" is really just advocating "free" health insurance and "free" health care, meaning taxpayer funded.
There was free COVID testing.
COVID vaccines are free.

Roughly 40% of those who died were in nursing facilities. A large proportion of deaths were people over 50. People over 65 have access to Medicare. Poor people have access to Medicaid.

I'm pretty sure the study is flawed. I'm not going to waste my time verifying that.
 
Nov 28, 2010
79,235
32,489
113
Maryland
A few points -
Everyone has access to health insurance. The "study" is really just advocating "free" health insurance and "free" health care, meaning taxpayer funded.
There was free COVID testing.
COVID vaccines are free.

Roughly 40% of those who died were in nursing facilities. A large proportion of deaths were people over 50. People over 65 have access to Medicare. Poor people have access to Medicaid.

I'm pretty sure the study is flawed. I'm not going to waste my time verifying that.
A good example of "argument by straw man" leading to acceptance of an unverified conclusion in contradiction to the actual research and analysis.

In other words, conservatism 2022.
 

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
24,845
32,725
113
Can you list the study parameters that didn’t take this into consideration?
Not Trad but...

Using CDC numbers 748,084 of the recorded covid deaths were 65 and older...or Medicare eligible

That leaves 257,000 of covid deaths not Medicare eligible.

Looked at the links and I'm not sure how they came to their number...

 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
19,811
23,124
113
It makes sense. I remember the Supreme Court justice talking about all of the really sick kids at home in ventilators. They probably couldn’t afford the hospital
Where did they get those ventilators, who installed them and monitored them IF that is accurate? Did HHS just drop them off and say here you go...good luck gotta run...?
 
Nov 28, 2010
79,235
32,489
113
Maryland
Not Trad but...

Using CDC numbers 748,084 of the recorded covid deaths were 65 and older...or Medicare eligible

That leaves 257,000 of covid deaths not Medicare eligible.

Looked at the links and I'm not sure how they came to their number...

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Medicare is the same as universal health care.

I'm retired and on Medicare. I also pay nearly $5000 per year (not subsidized in any way) for Medicare Part B, Rx coverage and a Medicare Supplemental. And that still doesn't cover all necessary care.
 

IsaacHarrison

HR All-American
May 9, 2005
2,540
840
113
If universal healthcare would have saved that many covid deaths, where covid treatment is free and Medicare covers most of the people who died, im surprised that anyone dies in countries with universal healthcare.
 

SSG T

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 10, 2002
42,664
59,714
113
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
 

IsaacHarrison

HR All-American
May 9, 2005
2,540
840
113
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
There is more to healthcare than cost.
 
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Aardvark86

HR MVP
Jan 23, 2018
2,366
2,592
113
Calling bullshit.

America is fat. Old people had the biggest issues.

nobody needs to be told they are fat and you are not curing old age.

I am willing to try “free” healthcare. A new 8% payroll tax matched by employers would just about cover it.
calling bullshit for a different reason. having health insurance, however sourced or funded, really doesn't help that much in the early stages of a new viral pandemic that the professionals have no idea how to treat, or tools to treat it with
 
Nov 28, 2010
79,235
32,489
113
Maryland
If universal healthcare would have saved that many covid deaths, where covid treatment is free and Medicare covers most of the people who died, im surprised that anyone dies in countries with universal healthcare.
1. Failure to understand Medicare's limitations.

2. Assumes that deaths in nations with better health care wouldn't have been worse off without it.

This is what passes for reason on the right.
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
19,811
23,124
113
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
Yeah I’m a first class people hater.
My daughter (no pics) was without insurance for a while during the height of the pandemic. She was vaxxed, no charge, tested no charge, and got a Regeneron treatment...no charge, damn I hate her.
🙄
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
19,811
23,124
113
1. Failure to understand Medicare's limitations.

2. Assumes that deaths in nations with better health care wouldn't have been worse off without it.

This is what passes for reason on the right.

I’m on Medicare with a supplement. I’m getting really pretty good care. Yes I pay about $2500 a year plus co-pay and for my prescriptions so out of pocket around $4000 maybe.
Medicaid folks pay little to nothing and no one is turned away.
 

IsaacHarrison

HR All-American
May 9, 2005
2,540
840
113
1. Failure to understand Medicare's limitations.

2. Assumes that deaths in nations with better health care wouldn't have been worse off without it.

This is what passes for reason on the right.
Medicare has ZERO limitations for covid treatment. Everyone in the US insured or not had ZERO limitations for covid treatment. If you want to talk diabetes or something ill listen. There was no limitations for covid.
 
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onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
6,405
7,491
113
Health insurance is basically free
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
of course. Just show the math and getting the new $3+ trillion dollars.

you think doctors and nurses should make less money?

do you think some are not paying enough?

the math don’t work. It’s why even the most liberal of states hasn’t tried anything. Cost shifting isn’t saving money BTW.

America is likely the most unhealthy country on the planet. I doubt access to a doctor to tell them they are fat and disgusting will help.

America is a land of zero accountability. Borrow money for everything eat anything and bitch about it being somebody else’s fault.
 
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MikeyHawk

HR All-American
Apr 17, 2015
2,513
1,524
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1. Failure to understand Medicare's limitations.

2. Assumes that deaths in nations with better health care wouldn't have been worse off without it.

This is what passes for reason on the right.
Is there a recent proposal on Universal Healthcare? Showing how it would be funded and what is covered?
Considering that there really isn't any concern with the debt since trillions were handed out during the pandemic, maybe the cost isn't a concern and just do it.
 
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BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,942
13,000
113
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
Sort of a con in some ways and I do believe it would save money but as a nation, if we go that route. we also need to figure out how to become healthier through diet or exercise. Not sure how to work this out though.

In terms of this study, I don’t buy it as people mentioned before. Didn’t read it but did it mention the overworked short staffed hospitals and how that effected deaths?
 

IsaacHarrison

HR All-American
May 9, 2005
2,540
840
113
Is there a recent proposal on Universal Healthcare? Showing how it would be funded and what is covered?
Considering that there really isn't any concern with the debt since trillions were handed out during the pandemic, maybe the cost isn't a concern and just do it.
Even if we wanted to just do it we couldnt for many years. The system is so backlogged how it is let alone adding more to it. IMO, universal healthcare in the US would become a have and have not system. You actually want to be seen in a reasonable timeframe and get decent care you will have to pay up.
 

Old_wrestling_fan

HR Legend
Mar 2, 2009
10,716
10,394
113
Iowa City
My big question for the cons, if it were shown that we'd have a big savings for nationalized health care vs what we have now, would you be for it?

I realize that a lot of you don't care for people, however, if it could save money overall, would that sell you.
While providing a standard of care that approximates what we have now? Sure.

But...this also assumes that people could/would trust a gov't agency to manage such a thing well. THAT'S where the big disconnect would be for me.

This a multi-dimensional issue, not just one of price/cost.